Has anyone ever thought about how selfish Christianity is?

[tiffmal 6]

Ron, this last statement of yours is my sentiment as well. I'll never claim to be one who can 'debate'. I will lose any debate.

I can 'defend' my beliefs as you well know...but I do realize that in the end it is 'faith'. From time to time you'll see me in here stating a article of faith and why I believe it. I can do this as well as anyone. However, I have no desire to be in the cross-fire of an intellectual battle of historical record or to debate the merits of, in the case, Josephus or even the Talmud or the resurrection. You and I know the points too well and we know each other's arguments. Its a waste of energy...but sometimes its nice to have the conversation to keep our razors sharp.

Blessings to you my JewBro!

MK

I can't think of many things these days where faith and believing in the unseen is good enough. People spend their whole lives doing research and solving problems and proving things yet one can almost feel guilty for questioning God. When I was younger I tried so hard to "open myself" to God but I just can't devote my life to something I cannot see. I like to live my life for today and not obsess about something I cannot see or touch. I would rather spend my Sunday morning having breakfast with my family than praising God.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

I'm still a Librul ** Socialist Commie though.

you can still like sheep as a republican.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Hmm well if hell is the absence of God then I suppose I'm in hell. Its been pretty nice.

Its hard for me to rationalize what you said. I don't feel welcomed by God. I don't feel anything from God. Im just a wretch.

It depends on how you define what or who God is? If you regard the concept of God as some kind of benevolent Creator, then I think it would be impossible to be in total absence of God - at least while you are in this universe.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It depends on how you define what or who God is? If you regard the concept of God as some kind of benevolent Creator, then I think it would be impossible to be in total absence of God - at least while you are in this universe.

Does it really matter, whether Man is a Creation of God, or God is a Creation of Man? To name a thing, is to own the thing.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 2:19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.

Edited November 11, 2010 by ##########

[_Simpson_ 250]

I didn't intend to single it out- I just know a lot of people who are Christian over any other religion which got me to thinking. I also added that this probably includes other religions too.

I was responding to the OP, I didnt have the time to read thru all the pages.

[Peikko 1,575]

The intention of religion has never been selfish - it's a man made construct that attempts to provide both spiritual and physical comfort and fairness to social interactions between human beings. It's flawed and selfish people can end up in positions of power and or authority - but the tenets of religion are designed to make life on earth more bearable than it would be without artificial rules of social interaction and behaviour.

The real question is, in our modern world can we provide an even fairer structure of rules of ethical and 'moral' behaviour that don't rely on discrimination and a tendency to demonize some humans because of behaviours are deemed 'sinful'. Religions have managed to accommodate many 'sinful' social behaviours, if the circumstances are right from a HUMAN perspective despite the fact that most organized religions stress the importance of allowing 'god' to judge, yet many religious persons stick rigidly to rules that deny homosexuals access to normal human relations and social protections. How absurd that a christian can do that and yet think nothing of sending a criminal to his 'eye for an eye' fate? (Notwithstanding the entirely arbitrary nature of who ends up on death row - how many rich people are ever executed in the USA?) My answer is, most certainly we can and should.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The intention of religion has never been selfish - it's a man made construct that attempts to provide both spiritual and physical comfort and fairness to social interactions between human beings. It's flawed and selfish people can end up in positions of power and or authority - but the tenets of religion are designed to make life on earth more bearable than it would be without artificial rules of social interaction and behaviour.

Well said.

The real question is, in our modern world can we provide an even fairer structure of rules of ethical and 'moral' behaviour that don't rely on discrimination and a tendency to demonize some humans because of behaviours are deemed 'sinful'. Religions have managed to accommodate many 'sinful' social behaviours, if the circumstances are right from a HUMAN perspective despite the fact that most organized religions stress the importance of allowing 'god' to judge, yet many religious persons stick rigidly to rules that deny homosexuals access to normal human relations and social protections. How absurd that a christian can do that and yet think nothing of sending a criminal to his 'eye for an eye' fate? (Notwithstanding the entirely arbitrary nature of who ends up on death row - how many rich people are ever executed in the USA?) My answer is, most certainly we can and should.

We have social taboos that aren't anchored to any specific religious belief, but out of our sense of ethical and moral standards. Perhaps a lot of people who have negative feelings about religion stem from feeling like they were being told how 'bad' they were, but in general, I don't think that is the purpose of religion, even though behavior is an integral part of religion. My own experience is that religion is primarily communal and that through a nurturing and loving community, behavior is shaped. However, a free will is well understood among the major religions. While certain behaviors are frowned upon, discouraged or even unacceptable, an individual's free will is part of the quation.

ETA: I am not equating homosexuality to a behavior - as it isn't something someone chooses to be. I was speaking in generalities.

Edited November 11, 2010 by 8TBVBN

[Danno 1,228]

ETA: I am not equating homosexuality to a behavior - as it isn't something someone chooses to be. I was speaking in generalities.

Words have definitions Steve.

ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty [ hmə sekshoo állətee, hmō sekshoo állətee ]

noun

Definition:

attraction to same sex: sexual attraction to or sexual relations with somebody of the same sex

Has nothing to do with someone being born with some predisposed sex future.

If you are in Prison and are straight but under the circumstances you find another male attractive,... you are partaking in Homosexuality....(without being born a homosexual)

If you are so liberated that sex with man, woman or child looks appetizing .... you have engaged in Homosexuality.... quit trying to elevate pleasure to some higher plane.

Can you even say that all Men who identify as exclusively Homosexual now.... were all born this way.... none one sexually evolved?

In fact, do you believe all people are either gay or straight without varying degrees of both?

It's not all white and black as you suggest my friend.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

If you are in Prison and are straight but under the circumstances you find another male attractive,... you are partaking in Homosexuality....(without being born a homosexual)

If you are so liberated that sex with man, woman or child looks appetizing .... you have engaged in Homosexuality.... quit trying to elevate pleasure to some higher plane.

Can you even say that all Men who identify as exclusively Homosexual now.... were all born this way.... none one sexually evolved?

In fact, do you believe all people are either gay or straight without varying degrees of both?

It's not all white and black as you suggest my friend.

Any port in a storm, eh Danny Boy?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Words have definitions Steve.

ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty [ hmə sekshoo állətee, hmō sekshoo állətee ]

noun

Definition:

attraction to same sex: sexual attraction to or sexual relations with somebody of the same sex

Has nothing to do with someone being born with some predisposed sex future.

If you are in Prison and are straight but under the circumstances you find another male attractive,... you are partaking in Homosexuality....(without being born a homosexual)

If you are so liberated that sex with man, woman or child looks appetizing .... you have engaged in Homosexuality.... quit trying to elevate pleasure to some higher plane.

Can you even say that all Men who identify as exclusively Homosexual now.... were all born this way.... none one sexually evolved?

In fact, do you believe all people are either gay or straight without varying degrees of both?

It's not all white and black as you suggest my friend.

There is a difference between homosexuality as a trait and homosexual behavior, just as you might have like to dress up in your older sister's dresses when you were a boy, but that didn't change the fact that you were still a boy, right? Secondly, sexuality is on a continuum rather than something absolute. It's the way God made us.

[Danno 1,228]

Any port in a storm, eh Danny Boy?

I'll let the sailers in the room comment on that.

But I do agree- Desperate times, call for desperate measures.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Danno

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'll let the sailers in the room comment on that.

But I do agree- Desperate times, call for desperate measures.

You would have sex with another man under the right circumstances, Danno? Are you coming out of the closet?

[Danno 1,228]

You would have sex with another man under the right circumstances, Danno? Are you coming out of the closet?

Coming out of the closet?

Not yet but if I do should I PM you?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Coming out of the closet?

Not yet but if I do should I PM you?

Then it wouldn't really be coming out. You've got to announce it to the world.

[Peikko 1,575]

Well said.

We have social taboos that aren't anchored to any specific religious belief, but out of our sense of ethical and moral standards. Perhaps a lot of people who have negative feelings about religion stem from feeling like they were being told how 'bad' they were, but in general, I don't think that is the purpose of religion, even though behavior is an integral part of religion. My own experience is that religion is primarily communal and that through a nurturing and loving community, behavior is shaped. However, a free will is well understood among the major religions. While certain behaviors are frowned upon, discouraged or even unacceptable, an individual's free will is part of the quation.

ETA: I am not equating homosexuality to a behavior - as it isn't something someone chooses to be. I was speaking in generalities.

You sound like an agnostic

It's really hard to know for sure exactly where ethics and morality came from - certainly the ancient Greeks pondered these questions and came to some interesting conclusions. What I find fascinating is how notions of equality have developed - and continue to do so. One day, opinions like those of Danno and his ilk will completely disappear; homosexuality really isn't a threat to civilization or anything else for that matter. Gay men have no interest in straight guys and statistically are less likely to rape someone than a heterosexual. That the US prison system allows for systematic abuse of prisoners in all manner of ways is something the average US citizen should be totally ashamed of, not consider it all part of the 'punishment' system and this casual chat about such abuse I find rather distasteful - although I have come to expect it on VJ.