Limbaugh: "Pre-existing condition coverage is not insurance. It's welfare."

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Oh yes, insurance IS the problem. And so is the cost of medical care.

They are inter-dependent, of course.

If I go and see my family doctor, I will pay a $20 deductible. Great, I can afford that no problem. The doctor charges more like $120. I would not go see a doctor for that price, unless something was seriously wrong with me. Since I have to pay the premiums anyway, I feel that I should use the service whenever it is convenient. In effect, having insurance is driving me to use the doctor's services. Again, if I had no insurance, I'd shop around for the best price quality ratio. With insurance, I will try to get the best doctor that my insurance will cover, no matter his prices.

Medical insurance allows Drs to charge more and brings them more clients than they would otherwise have.

On the other hand, the cost of medical services is rising fast. Why? With 3000-4000 students per place in medical school, you'd think there would be plenty of new medical schools starting, yes? They would (medical school is a profitable business), but there is a doctor driven lobby that prevents this from happening. Of course Drs are only protecting their incomes and employ-ability. They got those huge loans to repay, so it is understandable.

For the public though, the current concept is a disaster.

If you understood anything about doctors, you'd know you can shop aruond and most are willing to work with you on pricing. Again, insurance is not a factor.

services themselves aren't that expensive. It's the equipment/upkeep/normal bills, etc. that doctors have. The same as you and I have. they pay taxes, they have to pay huge malpracice insurance premiums, have the lastest/greatest equipment and then there's the HUGE cost of pharmaceuticals..... Very few doctors are actually as 'wealthy' as you might think... For what they do for a living though, they should be able to charge $100,000 a visit if they wanted. After all, it's a service they provide. It's a want/desire. Not a 'need/right.'

[Dakine10 5,452]

The problem is not insurance. The problem is the overall cost of health care.

Insurance does its job. People just expect much more from insurance than that it's supposed to be.

And health care costs are high because insurance is the problem. Non profit hospitals right now average around 25% non pay rate. That's 1 in 4 (uninsured) patients who are not paying their hospital bill. Now guess why hospitals bill insured patients $6 bucks for an advil and $40 bucks for a band aid.

[^_^ 5,021]

... guess why hospitals bill insured patients $6 bucks for an advil and $40 bucks for a band aid.

I love guessing games! Is it because Obama is a communist?

[Dakine10 5,452]

I love guessing games! Is it because Obama is a communist?

No. Good guess though.

[Sgt. McGee 27]

My wife (before we were married) had no dental insurance (and only a high-deductible catastrophic injury medical plan), but wanted to have some dental work done. She went to a dentist, told them she was paying out of pocket, and they told her that they had a "first time customer" package, where for $199, she'd get x-rays, a cleaning, and a basic checkup. Not bad. They found an issue with her gums or something, and told her that she should really have it taken care of, so that it didn't become a larger problem down the road. They told her that it would take 2 sessions, and 4 shots of the antibiotic/whatever each session. She agreed to have the first one done that day, and they delivered the dosage, then charged her 800 dollars, explaining that it was $200/dose.

She was really upset, but paid and left, and decided she wasn't going to have the other appointment. Then, she decided that she didn't want to risk the health of her teeth, so she determined to suck it up, and take care of it. When she got there, the receptionist told her that they'd realized they made a mistake, and that she'd been billed the insurance rate for the treatment. Instead, she should have been charged $50/dose. She was able to complete the treatment AND get $400 refunded.

If everyone paid out of pocket for everything but the most major expenses (heart transplants, cancer treatment, even broken bones), the cost of medical care would become more manageable because it would HAVE to become more manageable. The outrageous premiums that people pay every month would cover their basic needs, while making them budget more intelligently (no $50 apples).

Now that we've conflated "insurance" with "health care," it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion about either without people claiming all sorts of ridiculous things.

People SHOULD have responsibility to pay for their own medical care. The destitute can find treatment at free clinics, etc. Insurance should be limited to things that are actual "risks" (cancer, heart attack, parasites, whatever) not certainties (annual physicals, well visits, etc), and people should have the option to buy across state lines (or full a la carte pricing and no state mandates to avoid having to pay premiums that are inflated to provide for things that there is no way I will ever want/need coverage for).

I'll admit that pre-existing conditions are a difficult thing, though. That is probably the only place that a government plan makes sense - to insure those who are otherwise uninsurable. If we limited the government plan to ONLY those under those circumstances, I wonder what the actual overall cost would be?

Edited November 9, 2010 by Sgt. McGee

[Obama 2012 1,714]

And health care costs are high because insurance is the problem. Non profit hospitals right now average around 25% non pay rate. That's 1 in 4 (uninsured) patients who are not paying their hospital bill. Now guess why hospitals bill insured patients $6 bucks for an advil and $40 bucks for a band aid.

LOL - again, insurance is not the problem.

The problem is laws requiring that hospitals treat people no matter whether they can pay or not pay. Perhaps if people paid in the first place, then certain costs wouldn't be higher.

No, but lets blame insurance for actually 'paying' doctors/hospitals.

Are you serious? Cmon.....

It's not as simple as a "$6 advil/$40 bandaid" either. You'll see that as a cash price right away more than likely. Insurance typically won't pay that, as I said earlier because rates are negotiated most of the time. It's why certain doctors take certain types of insurance and others don't. Same with hospitals.... They'll try and get by with that on insurance companies they don't have negotiated rates with, yes.... but that's not a problem with insuranne. It's a problem with the deadbeats who don't pay.

[The_Dude 1,142]

LOL - again, insurance is not the problem.

The problem is laws requiring that hospitals treat people no matter whether they can pay or not pay. Perhaps if people paid in the first place, then certain costs wouldn't be higher.

No, but lets blame insurance for actually 'paying' doctors/hospitals.

Are you serious? Cmon.....

It's not as simple as a "$6 advil/$40 bandaid" either. You'll see that as a cash price right away more than likely. Insurance typically won't pay that, as I said earlier because rates are negotiated most of the time. It's why certain doctors take certain types of insurance and others don't. Same with hospitals.... They'll try and get by with that on insurance companies they don't have negotiated rates with, yes.... but that's not a problem with insuranne. It's a problem with the deadbeats who don't pay.

So in your warped universe, the world is run by corporations, and hospitals are like nightclubs...... you don't get in if you can't pay the bouncer the cover charge? Thank god you'll never be in a position of power.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

So in your warped universe, the world is run by corporations, and hospitals are like nightclubs...... you don't get in if you can't pay the bouncer the cover charge? Thank god you'll never be in a position of power.

You'll be eating those words soon enough.

In my 'warped' universe, it's not ok to force individuals to do things for other individuals. Doctors are people trying to make an honest living like anyone else out there.

Imagine if your local diner gave away 50% of its meals.... how could they stay in business without charging that amount lost to the 50% of customers who didn't pay, or by makeing certain menu items cost a lot more to a specific group of people.

Health care is a service provided by individuals who are trying to make a living, trying to make money, trying to run a business. It's no different than your local flower shop. Only the clients needs are a little bit different just ilke any other business.

[Dakine10 5,452]

LOL - again, insurance is not the problem.

The problem is laws requiring that hospitals treat people no matter whether they can pay or not pay. Perhaps if people paid in the first place, then certain costs wouldn't be higher.

No, but lets blame insurance for actually 'paying' doctors/hospitals.

Are you serious? Cmon.....

It's not as simple as a "$6 advil/$40 bandaid" either. You'll see that as a cash price right away more than likely. Insurance typically won't pay that, as I said earlier because rates are negotiated most of the time. It's why certain doctors take certain types of insurance and others don't. Same with hospitals.... They'll try and get by with that on insurance companies they don't have negotiated rates with, yes.... but that's not a problem with insuranne. It's a problem with the deadbeats who don't pay.

So people are the problem, the laws are the problem, but a system that's set up primarily to make a profit from peoples health - nothing wrong with that? If you believe that, you really should to take that "more rational than most" slogan out of your signature.

And as someone who has worked in a hospital for almost 20 years, and an ER for 8, I can tell you straight up no doctor, nurse or any staff where I work could tell you the price of any test or procedure upfront. Patients get upset at this all the time, but the standard answer is to call the billing dept, and even they have to look it up. Fine if you are having a routine CBC done, not so much if your appendix has just burst at 3 AM.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Dakine10

[^_^ 5,021]

So people are the problem, the laws are the problem, but a system that's set up primarily to make a profit from peoples health - nothing wrong with that? If you believe that, you really should to take that "more rational than most" slogan out of your signature.

And as someone who has worked in a hospital for almost 20 years, and an ER for 8, I can tell you straight up no doctor, nurse or any staff where I work could tell you the price of any test or procedure upfront. Patients get upset at this all the time, but the standard answer is to call the billing dept, and even they have to look it up. Fine if you are having a routine CBC done, not so much if your appendix has just burst at 3 AM.

The sign of a good ER is a rate sheet prominently displayed at the reception desk.

[mawilson 2,133]

My wife (before we were married) had no dental insurance (and only a high-deductible catastrophic injury medical plan), but wanted to have some dental work done. She went to a dentist, told them she was paying out of pocket, and they told her that they had a "first time customer" package, where for $199, she'd get x-rays, a cleaning, and a basic checkup. Not bad. They found an issue with her gums or something, and told her that she should really have it taken care of, so that it didn't become a larger problem down the road. They told her that it would take 2 sessions, and 4 shots of the antibiotic/whatever each session. She agreed to have the first one done that day, and they delivered the dosage, then charged her 800 dollars, explaining that it was $200/dose.

She was really upset, but paid and left, and decided she wasn't going to have the other appointment. Then, she decided that she didn't want to risk the health of her teeth, so she determined to suck it up, and take care of it. When she got there, the receptionist told her that they'd realized they made a mistake, and that she'd been billed the insurance rate for the treatment. Instead, she should have been charged $50/dose. She was able to complete the treatment AND get $400 refunded.

If everyone paid out of pocket for everything but the most major expenses (heart transplants, cancer treatment, even broken bones), the cost of medical care would become more manageable because it would HAVE to become more manageable. The outrageous premiums that people pay every month would cover their basic needs, while making them budget more intelligently (no $50 apples).

Now that we've conflated "insurance" with "health care," it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion about either without people claiming all sorts of ridiculous things.

People SHOULD have responsibility to pay for their own medical care. The destitute can find treatment at free clinics, etc. Insurance should be limited to things that are actual "risks" (cancer, heart attack, parasites, whatever) not certainties (annual physicals, well visits, etc), and people should have the option to buy across state lines (or full a la carte pricing and no state mandates to avoid having to pay premiums that are inflated to provide for things that there is no way I will ever want/need coverage for).

I'll admit that pre-existing conditions are a difficult thing, though. That is probably the only place that a government plan makes sense - to insure those who are otherwise uninsurable. If we limited the government plan to ONLY those under those circumstances, I wonder what the actual overall cost would be?

+1

[Obama 2012 1,714]

So people are the problem, the laws are the problem, but a system that's set up primarily to make a profit from peoples health - nothing wrong with that? If you believe that, you really should to take that "more rational than most" slogan out of your signature.

Health Care is a SERVICE. Something that people do for a living. It's not a right. You're not entitled to make someone do something for you. If you want it to be a 'right' you need to learn to heal yourself then, because that's the only way it is.

And as someone who has worked in a hospital for almost 20 years, and an ER for 8, I can tell you straight up no doctor, nurse or any staff where I work could tell you the price of any test or procedure upfront. Patients get upset at this all the time, but the standard answer is to call the billing dept, and even they have to look it up. Fine if you are having a routine CBC done, not so much if your appendix has just burst at 3 AM.

then you worked at a jacked up hospital.... Everywhere I've been, in both states I have lived in, pricing was really easy to obtain....

[mawilson 2,133]

Health Care is a SERVICE. Something that people do for a living. It's not a right.

It is however a need. Not a "want/desire", as you seem to believe.

[Jenn! 918]

Explain?

What I mean is that saying that pre-existing condition coverage is not insurance is not correct. It would be like retroactive insurance. Where the insured purchases the insurance after the occurrence of the loss. The occurrence is certain, but the amount and timing of future payments is uncertain. Of course, your premium reflects the fact that there has already been a loss.

[^_^ 5,021]

It is however a need. Not a "want/desire", as you seem to believe.

You don't need to live. You want to live.