Flying while arab/muslim

[mybackpages 0]

Ok my definition of a racist:

Someone who verbally or physically attacks someone for no reason other than that person lets say being Black,Jewish or whatever.

I DID NOT attack anyone verbally or physically.

Why I don't want her to call me sis? Very easy to explain,she is rude and disrespectful towards me.I have not attacked her verbally nor have I done anything else than telling ppl what I (!!!!!!) think.

Nat

Actually a racist is someone who believes in the superiority if his or her own race in comparison towards other races and this is often accompanied by intolerance and discrimination.

Bigots however are strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and this also is accompanied by intolerance and discrimination.

As humans we all have some tendancy to favor our own culture or ethnic group- its called ethnocentrentism. It is however never an excuse to use language which promotes ignorant steortypes of those who are different from us.

This topic is just so very sad. It reminds me of something Bertrand Russell once wrote: Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.

[LaL 418]

OH NOES!!!

scary isnt it??

[Henia 11]

[/

Desert Fox and Vartan I completley agree with you!!!!!

And here's MY opinion:

If all those ppl that are engaged to Muslims have SUCH a big problem with the way America has turned out to be after 9/11 (and let's not forget that the hijackers WERE indeed Muslim AND prayed to their Allah aloud just before they killed THOUSANDS of INNOCENT ppl IN AMERICA) then they should just move to the country of their better half.

I will be flying to the USA next months and I AM scared.I'm very sorry (honestly) that nower days ALL Muslims are looked at as terrorists as I am sure only a small percentage of Muslims IS involved in terrorism,but that's America (and a good part of the rest of the Western world as well) after 9/11.

If we should happen to have someone who looks suspicous on board our aircarft and that person on top of that wears a shirt with Arabic script AND prays-I WILL HAVE THEM REMOVE THAT PERSON .

There would be a very simple solution for all this though,well at least as far as flying goes-

an Arabic airline,that flies Muslims only.Or an airline that flies non Arabic/Middle Easterners/Muslims only.

That way neither could or would be offended by the other and everyone could enjoy a safe trip!!!

Unfrtunatley "innocent" Muslims and Arabs,Middle Easterners and ppl that just happen to "look suspicous" are the "victims" of what their brothers did on 9/11.But this is the world we live in.

My soon to be husband and me just had a conversation about that tonight when we talked about where we'd settle down in the USA.And I have told him I don't want to be anywhere near Muslims bc I'm SCARED of them.NOT because I believe they're stupid,evil,ugly -whatever,but bc I'm SCARED.

Before 9/11 I wasn't,now I am,and I know A LOT of ppl feel that way since 9/11.

Of course Muslims and there loved ones have to suffer from that,but hey me being born in Germany-trust me I know what it means to suffer for something you actually didn't have ANYTHING to do with.I was born in 1975,my parents were born in 1940,so hey my family didn't have anything to do with the killing of the Jews,yet my parents were looked at in a strange way bc they were German............I have a very close friend who is Jewish and she STILL looks at old Geramn ppl as if each and every one of them was a Jew Killer.She was born in 1954,after the Hollcaust but has lost many family members in Concentration Camps in Germany...so you see it will go on for Generations.

And hey lets face it,Muslim ppl do love to provoke Americans.

There is this Muslim "Comedian" in NYC who actually makes JOKES about 9/11!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This piece of ****(find your own words) is standing on stage making JOKES about the victims!!!! I myself have seen it on TV just a few days ago and by God I was hell raising mad.If I ever get a hold of that guy he will have to listen to me and he will not like my opinion one bit.In my eyes someone like that should be given a one way ticket back to the Muslim Country he came from .

AMERICA-LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!!!!!!!!!

Nat

Esalaam ( that means PEACE) for your info Nat...

I just want to comment to your post my dear fellow human being ...

I agree with your ending comment America...love it or live it... but I donno agree with the rest.

I appreciate your comment and input...as America gives us the right to free speech... so PLZ bare with me when I give you my input too...

First off, I would like to introduce myself...My name is Henia. I live in the USA. I am European...Eastern European. I have been in the US since 1997. I am a convert to Islam and I am going to marry a MENA muslim man (God willing) this September. I converted way before knowing my fiancee and I converted by my own free will. There are no jihed or force here.

I come from a mixed family, Roman Catholic and Muslim ... and I remember in my not distant youth when my family had fled a war zones and the governments...in which the US didnot help until the 11th hour. Before that the Communists Russian totally brainwashed our minds with the "ideal Marx world" ...before that German Nazis came to my country, to my town with their facist ideas and hardcore hand that came down on us ...So I do know alittle about fear, pain and suffering Madame... so I would like to explain you my opinion on this...

I do understand your concerns with "Muslims" with several of the members of this religion preforming various tragic acts ... but one cannot generalise all Muslims into this category... There is an estimated population of 8 million Muslims living in the US (alone) and 2/3 of this poulation are immigrates. (Please note: unless you are a Native Indian, you are an immigrate too) Also 10% of the professional work force are Muslim and 4% of that are in finance. There are about 3,000 mosques in the US, a very small number compared to the number of Christian churches...

Muslims voted in bloc for President Bush in the US presidential election 2000. There is no exit poll information available about the Muslim votes. Nevertheless, based on three unscientific surveys of Muslim voters, Muslims voted 70% to 90% in favor of Bush with a significant 34% voting for the first time. Muslims, therefore, became the only bloc vote for Bush. In Florida, the last battleground, there would not have been any battle without an estimated 60,000 votes which Florida Muslims asserted that they delivered in favor of Bush. There are more than 200 Muslim organizations and communities in Florida.If we take an arbitrary criterion of 70% or more votes as a sign of a bloc vote by a community, then three of the four distinct minorities who voted in bloc did so for Gore in election 2000. African-Americans with 90%, Jews with 80%, and gays and lesbians with 70% voted for Al Gore according to the CNN exit poll statistics. How ironic huh?

On day of 9/11, I was working in my job at a major company working in translations...when my collegue came rushing to me to tell me that the WW towers were on fire. I was completly stuned... We all went into the breakroom to watch it on the television, I was struck by sight of the building, the darkness of theashes that was covering the sky. I had witnessed yet another the bigg tragedy of my lifetime.

On the next day, I received my first hate comment in the USA."You motherxxx.. raghead"..I tried to interrupt the old lady and tell her that I am an not arabic, but she didn't know what I was talking about. Then I realized, 80-90% of the American thinks, every body that wears a hijeb (head cover) .But that is typical of American, the most parochial nation on the earth. On 9/13 nite, I was heading towards my apartment and I was stopped by the cops which is the first time, I was ever pulled over. First thing, I was asked where I was heading at 11PM? I politely told him that I was going home. His intention was pretty obvious. He was looking for an suspicious Muslim to grill.

I don't know after 9/11, how many times in lunch/dinners, I had to convince that I am not arabic and I donnot intend to do any harm to anyone. Still many of them, remain suspicious that I am hiding my identity. Shortly after this, I was terminated from my job based on my so called " poor performance" yet I had worked there for 2 years with an outstanding record. I know, how difficult for the educated Muslims to get a white color job in US. Quite naturally, Muslims who lost their jobs after 9/11, didn't get an equivalent job or are still looking for a job.

I have been actively looking for a position ever since... and 9 times out of 10 when I apply I do get a call back...it is only after my callback that I am told "we have found someone else" know many friends who have changed their names to American sounding Christian names to get a job. So Jaher Mohammad can post his resume as John Mathews as well.

No doubt, Muslims from Western influenced countries, are mostly moderate and some times, more secular than most of the Americans. Many of the illeterate daily laborer Muslims in our village town, which happened to be on the border near a Muslim area, are more secular than average Americans. My father had a favorite Muslim contractor, who came over the border to build our family house. I used to call him Bakkar mamu and he never visited any Mosque. He might be a class three or four educated, but he was firm in his conviction that religion feeds him nothing and if he continues in the path of honesty, why Allah would punish him for not going to Mosque? Because if he did punish him for not going to the Mosque, then Allah is as bad as a local 'tolabaj mastan' ( local hooligans who collect their dues by force ). He with his courage deeply influenced me to be an agnostic in childhood.Only later in my teens and twenties was I able to have the information to the truth of the existence of God and about religion.

I sometimes wonder, why I have not found a single lowly educated American who can think like him beyond their religion ( highly educated Americans are different story).

However, average Americans can not think like Bakkar and therefore, Muslims will be vanishing from the white color jobs sooner than you can think. There is a desperate need for Americans to take the time to understand Islam and not to buy into the stereotypes that are floating out there.

And more recently, on two trips to California... I went all hijebbed out in the airplane minding my own beeswax... going through the Xray machine check points...when the guard looked at me, did not smile and asked me for my ID. I gave him my ticket and ID/ He pushed me into a line. I looked at the people in this line. Mostly of looking like Paki or Indian...none of which were wearing hijeb like me, but of course they had that MidEast "look" the line seems to take forever, while the other lines seemed to move much faster. When I finally got my turn to put on purse and laptop in the belt, two men came to me and asked me to step aside. I thought "o snap what did I do?" Lucklily after unpacking everything in my purse, doing that wipe test on my laptop and my laptop case they let me go... In the plane, I took out my Qur'an and begin reading silently. I got stares, whispers and the attendants coming to check on me several times. LoL I can only laugh about all this, since it is not worst thing that has happened to me, but still... I say elhamdullah I am really NOT arabi, it might have been worse.

And just alittle note to end up here... just the other day I was driving by the Planned Parenthood clinic on my way to go shopping...when yet again Christian protesters were out picketing... and screaming all types of hate words in the name of their religion. And O yea, did everyone forget the violent Nazi marches in Ohio a few years back, mass suicide in Waco, Texas and the Oklahoma bombing...

Hmmm...all those were done in the name of a sect and /or religion...

I wonder how many Americans today do not unequivocally support most, if not all, of these Nazi economic and political principles?Should we rid the US of all the Muslims?

As you read the following words of Adolf Hitler, ask yourself which American politician, which American bureaucrat, which American schoolteacher, which American citizen would agree (or shall I say disagree) with the principles to which Hitler...how similar it seems to many politicial speeches we hear now.

And also Americans should not be shocked to learn that Big Brother has been eavesdropping on their telecommunications. It's been an open secret for years that the hush- hush National Security Agency's big electronic ears on the East and West coasts of the USA have been hoovering up all international phone, fax, and email communications.

When you call your aunt in Palermo, or your friend in Egypt, or your girlfriend in Paris, NSA's super computers pick up and process the transmission. State of the art programs search the messages for key words, locations, repetitions and patterns of interest. This process has been going on long before 9/11. I have always wondered what government listeners do with highly sensitive financial information passing between corporations, banks and securities or commodity markets. Obviously, there is enormous potential for the state listeners to profit from secret information about mergers, acquisitions, large trades of stocks or commodities, and the movement of currencies.

I would like post a link for everyone to view and to see the 12 warning signs of Fasicism It is an interesting little read.

Come on wake up and smell the Facism people

And some various Headers I have read ....

New Majority Leader: Iraq War “May Be The Greatest Gift That We Give” Our Grandchildren

Headstones of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan are inscribed with the Pentagons war-marketing slogans

White House and the RNC are going to make a habit of using uniformed military personnel as props at Republican political rallies, despite the fact that it is a plain violation of military regulations banning politicization of the armed forces.

"You must glorify war in order to get the public to accept the fact that your going to send their sons and daughters to die." The inside story of the cozy relationship between big box office American war movies and the Pentagon

July 1, 2003: U.S. Suspends Military Aid to Nearly 50 Countries: because they have supported the International Criminal Court and failed to exempt Americans from possible prosecution.US has at least 9000 prisoners in secret detentionCongressman: Muslims 'enemy amongst us'

But donnot get me wrong I love America and all the opportunies I have here, and I am saying anything against our government or President...but I can have my opinions of course, but COME ON stuff happens... and we can prepare all we want... check out every person, every home... but in the end of the day God has the final say in what happens and what doesn't... so the next time you sit by me in the airplane, donnot keep looking at me, cos I wear this headscarf... I maybe a Muslim but I am a human first. And if you took the time to speak to me, you would find that out.

Thank you for your time to read this...and may you be forever blessed and kept safe from harm.

PS: Muslims died in 9/11 too...and die everyday...

Esalaamu Waleikum wa Rahmat Allah wa Baraketu

Henia

[iceyspots 0]

OH NOES!!!

scary isnt it??

haha... Kiss me i'm egyptian?

[VetsWife328 7]

Oh no,hold on a minute,I did not say I am racist.Someone posted a webster definition of racism and based on THAT definition I said if THAT is racism then yeah I could b called a racist.

My definition of a racist is a different one as I said.

And being scared doesn't make me a damn killer.

Now you guys tell me the damn motives the Muslim Hijackers had!!!!! What was it ? Fear? Hate? WHAT has caused the to kill thousands??????? At least I'm just scared and feel unsafe around Muslims,but I don't kill anyone or beat them up or call them names!!!!!

Nat

[LaL 418]

Actually a racist is someone who believes in the superiority if his or her own race in comparison towards other races and this is often accompanied by intolerance and discrimination.

actually that is called ethnocentricism... not racism

OH NOES!!!

scary isnt it??

haha... Kiss me i'm egyptian?

like i said SCARY BOOOOOOOOO

[Jenn! 918]

On the next day, I received my first hate comment in the USA."You motherxxx.. raghead"..I tried to interrupt the old lady and tell her that I am an not arabic, but she didn't know what I was talking about.

...

I don't know after 9/11, how many times in lunch/dinners, I had to convince that I am not arabic and I donnot intend to do any harm to anyone. Still many of them, remain suspicious that I am hiding my identity.

I'm sure it was not your intention to imply that while one should not fear all Muslims, it's reasonable to fear all Arab Muslims. Maybe a more appropriate response than "I'm not Arab" would simply be "I do not support or condone terrorism"?

[PlatyPius 5]

Okay, points taken.

I wasn't referring to this particular discussion, really - more of a general statement.

I think my main issue is the more and more frequent overuse of the Race Card (For everything else, there's Race Card) If someone doesn't agree, call them a racist. If you don't like their opinion, call them a racist. It's grown to epidemic proportions in the last few years, and is really not even an insult any longer....more like an annoyance; just like an over-sensitive car alarm. It's a means of denying the validity of the persons' feelings, fears, concerns. It's a brush-off, basically.

Regarding the "Racist Speech" comment....

I assume you mean "hate speech". Racist speech is protected. Hate speech is not. You can say "I hate Morovians" all you want. Systematically reducing them to sub-human status and inciting others to act upon your hatred falls under the "action" catagory. Hate speech and racism are not the same thing. Hate speech is taking action upon ones prejudices/racism. My statement regarded the sanctity of ones own beliefs, and specifically mentioned that it isn't our concern until that person does something - an action - based on those feelings. That would include cross burnings, physical violence, and yes - hate speech.

Hope that made sense, as I did some mid-paragraph editing....

[iceyspots 0]

booya henia!

[Bosco 1]

Thank you for your response.

I should have clarified my statements. I would be suspicious of Muslims who were acting in a way to CAUSE me to be suspicious. I am not suspicious of all Muslims. I'd be a nervous wreck if I were, since I work with several. What would I classify as suspicious behaviour? I'm not really sure. It isn't a rational thing, it's more of a subconscious thing. I suppose that if I saw a group of male Muslims sitting at a gate at the airport, huddled up and speaking in hushed tones in whatever their native language might be, then yes...I would probably be suspicious.

People fear what they don't understand. That is true. I do not understand arabic, german, italian, chinese, japanese, etc. Ergo, I don't KNOW what these people are talking about. They could be huddled up discussing their plan to visit this place and that place when they get where they're flying to. I would have no idea. It is that lack of comprehension that causes the suspicion, or at least adds to it.

My suspicion is a low-grade one. I am not terrified, nor afraid. I will, however, watch more closely for any signs of danger. I would do the same in the inner-city, or while visiting a strange business establishment. Yes, I'm the sort who always sits with his back to wall. I've seen and been through too much to be completely trusting of everyone.

I agree with your reaction. and I feel the same. It makes sense to look out for suspicious behavior, not only before boarding a plane but if we are out late or putting ourselves in any situation that could potentially make us vulnerable. It is hard to define suspicious and it will vary. Some people may find a t-shirt suspicious. However, the people enforcing these policies need to have a clear-cut idea of what is suspicious. Veering from the topic, but from what I understand, it was Muslims who first reported the tips in the recent London case.

I don't think an immediate - as you said physiological - reaction show bigotry. I cannot say I wouldn't have had ANY fear if I boarded a plane in the first few days after 9/11 and saw men who I thought looked like the 9/11 hijakers get on. We were all still processing what happened. However, once we have the opportunity to process that immediate reaction, I believe this is when we can call a reaction physiological or bigotted.

I think something that is forgotten is that 9/11 scared Muslims too.

[Ivanovo 0]

mass suicide in Waco, Texas

Great post, but that was not a mass suicide in Waco, whole other topic there.

[Jenn! 918]

Regarding the "Racist Speech" comment....

I assume you mean "hate speech". Racist speech is protected. Hate speech is not. You can say "I hate Morovians" all you want. Systematically reducing them to sub-human status and inciting others to act upon your hatred falls under the "action" catagory. Hate speech and racism are not the same thing. Hate speech is taking action upon ones prejudices/racism. My statement regarded the sanctity of ones own beliefs, and specifically mentioned that it isn't our concern until that person does something - an action - based on those feelings. That would include cross burnings, physical violence, and yes - hate speech.

I see the distinction between racist speech and hate speech that you've pointed out. I don't know if you saw the edit to my post to clarify that I don't believe "racist speech", or verbalizing racist views, should be prohibited. People do have the right to preach their racist views in this country. However, your previous post implied that if you don't like what someone has to say, there's really no point in doing anything about it because it's their opinion, and they have a right to say it. I disagree with that. Sure, they have a right to say it, but that doesn't mean that what they're saying is right, or that we should have to listen to it and say, "Good for you for having an opinion that's different from mine and potentially harmful to certain members of our society."

Do you see what I'm getting at?

[Bosco 1]

I wanted to edit but it was too late....

On 9/11, most people probably had a fairly similar physiological reaction - horror, fear.

After that people responded in different ways.

On one hand there was an increase in hate crimes. Some went and painted slurs on mosques, physically attacked people who looked Muslim, screamed things at Muslims, shot people, etc. Some turned this fear into hate that lasts today.

On the other hand, there was a huge increase in sales of the Qur'an. Churches engaged in interfaith dialogue/classes/prayers with Muslims. Mosques had open houses with huge audiences. There were people who reached out to their Muslim neighbors/coworkers, etc to have a better understanding of the faith.

We have choices in what we do beyond the immediate reaction.

[PlatyPius 5]

Regarding the "Racist Speech" comment....

I assume you mean "hate speech". Racist speech is protected. Hate speech is not. You can say "I hate Morovians" all you want. Systematically reducing them to sub-human status and inciting others to act upon your hatred falls under the "action" catagory. Hate speech and racism are not the same thing. Hate speech is taking action upon ones prejudices/racism. My statement regarded the sanctity of ones own beliefs, and specifically mentioned that it isn't our concern until that person does something - an action - based on those feelings. That would include cross burnings, physical violence, and yes - hate speech.

I see the distinction between racist speech and hate speech that you've pointed out. I don't know if you saw the edit to my post to clarify that I don't believe "racist speech", or verbalizing racist views, should be prohibited. People do have the right to preach their racist views in this country. However, your previous post implied that if you don't like what someone has to say, there's really no point in doing anything about it because it's their opinion, and they have a right to say it. I disagree with that. Sure, they have a right to say it, but that doesn't mean that what they're saying is right, or that we should have to listen to it and say, "Good for you for having an opinion that's different from mine and potentially harmful to certain members of our society."

Do you see what I'm getting at?

Aye.

You edited while I was still typing away. Took me a while to put that into words in a way that would avoid a flame-war. lol I'm currently having a nice discussion with y'all, and I much prefer it that way. Ergo, I'm trying to choose my words carefully, rather than just bang something out and post it. lol

[mybackpages 0]

Okay, points taken.

My statement regarded the sanctity of ones own beliefs, and specifically mentioned that it isn't our concern until that person does something - an action - based on those feelings. That would include cross burnings, physical violence, and yes - hate speech.

Hope that made sense, as I did some mid-paragraph editing....

while I disagree with many things you are saying here, I appreciate your openess to dialogue.

You are accurate in separating hate speech from racism speech, but the flaw in your argument as I see it is that how would you define sppech and action? You list cross burning as an action, but the Courts upheld it as protected speech.

I strongly support the right of speech, but where do we draw the line? Some speech is simply not tolerable. I'm not sure we can live in a mixed society and have absolute free speech.