Old citizenship??

[Captain Oates 911]

That's exactly how I feel. If I, my wife (who was born here) or any of our children ever get terminally ill I/we are out of here ASAP. I'm not bankrupting myself here because this country has a lot of silly people that don't get it how universal coverage gives a peace of mind and simply for the most part takes healthcare concerns out of the picture.

The voters believe all the lies and it's sad that they do. My mother in the UK had a full hysterectomy at age 92 and had her broken hip fixed 2 years later. She lived in a really nice residential home for 15 years and it was all free. The right wing in the US tell the story that anyone over 55 is left to die in the UK or is subject to a death panel. I can't believe that the US insurance companies can spin these stories and are believed - but they do and they are. My USC wife's family believe ALL those stories and think I am lying and being anti-American when I tell them how it is in Europe. I am sure now that Americans will continue to be cannon fodder to big business while believing their country is ahead of all other countries in all things and with no exceptions. I suppose it is some comfort to think they are part of 'the best country that has ever existed in the history of the world' while they are dying in pain and poverty as an insurance - denied person.

This is the one political issue I feel strongly about and I feel guilty that I have an escape door and the rest don't.

[pervez 4]

The voters believe all the lies and it's sad that they do. My mother in the UK had a full hysterectomy at age 92 and had her broken hip fixed 2 years later. She lived in a really nice residential home for 15 years and it was all free. The right wing in the US tell the story that anyone over 55 is left to die in the UK or is subject to a death panel. I can't believe that the US insurance companies can spin these stories and are believed - but they do and they are. My USC wife's family believe ALL those stories and think I am lying and being anti-American when I tell them how it is in Europe. I am sure now that Americans will continue to be cannon fodder to big business while believing their country is ahead of all other countries in all things and with no exceptions. I suppose it is some comfort to think they are part of 'the best country that has ever existed in the history of the world' while they are dying in pain and poverty as an insurance - denied person.

You are so right!

This is the one political issue I feel strongly about and I feel guilty that I have an escape door and the rest don't.

I've got two, the other one is the monetary black pit called national security. As far as healthcare goes I only feel bad for the ones that are for single payer healthcare but can't get it passed. I don't really feel sorry for the ones that go on about death panels and other horrors of single payer systems such as the myths of decade long waitlists etc. In my mind they deserve the mess they want, my mother in law included.

Edited November 9, 2010 by pervez

[Captain Oates 911]

You are so right!

I've got two, the other one is the monetary black pit called national security. As far as healthcare goes I only feel bad for the ones that are for single payer healthcare but can't get it passed. I don't really feel sorry for the ones that go on about death panels and other horrors of single payer systems such as the myths of decade long waitlists etc. In my mind they deserve the mess they want, my mother in law included.

I have 90% of my money invested outside the US just like all the switched on patriotic U.S. investors I know. I looked across the road and saw they have flags outside their houses for veteran's day. Never ending elective wars and ever higher health insurance and ever lower taxes because people think taxes are going up when they are not ? 2% of the population take more than 40% of Gross National Product ? 50% have NOTHING. I heard the popular Rand Paul say he is in favor of restaurant owners being able to deny entry to black people because that is liberty. He is elected on a landslide ! What's happening ? Turkey's voting for Christmas ? Thank heaven I am just watching the game. McCarthyism next with no GC renewals and compulsory church tithing like Germany - so I need that passport quick !

Mother in law - yes she is asking for it. Just when I thought the traditional mother in law was a thing of the past. I always know when my mother in law is coming round because I can hear the mice throwing themselves on the traps.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

I love this country like no other, despite the screaming incompetence and the large amount of uneducated, ignorant and clueless people who vote against their own interest just because they don't want a bi-racial President, or gays in the military, or women being allowed to have an abortion. They rather get f*cked up and down the river and die in poverty than compromise on issues that have not the slightest effect on themselves but grant more freedom to others instead. Or they just don't vote because they don't even understand what it's all about!

The one and only reason why keeping my original citizenship was paramount is the social safety net. If I could hold only one citizenship, it would be my German one, and I venture to guess that many millions of naturalized US citizens. mostly those from countries that provide an decent standard of living, feel the same way. As a citizen of a EU country, I do not have to accept old age combined with a life pushing a shopping cart with an old sleeping bag in it. I find that unacceptable, appalling, and plain unethical. I too believe that a society can be judged by the way it treats its weakest members.

Just the rednecks, Christian fundamentalists, racists, right-wingers and Tea Party followers live in blissful ignorance, unaware of the social suicide they are committing.

[CVB 18]

I love this country like no other, despite the screaming incompetence and the large amount of uneducated, ignorant and clueless people who vote against their own interest just because they don't want a bi-racial President, or gays in the military, or women being allowed to have an abortion. They rather get f*cked up and down the river and die in poverty than compromise on issues that have not the slightest effect on themselves but grant more freedom to others instead. Or they just don't vote because they don't even understand what it's all about!

The one and only reason why keeping my original citizenship was paramount is the social safety net. If I could hold only one citizenship, it would be my German one, and I venture to guess that many millions of naturalized US citizens. mostly those from countries that provide an decent standard of living, feel the same way. As a citizen of a EU country, I do not have to accept old age combined with a life pushing a shopping cart with an old sleeping bag in it. I find that unacceptable, appalling, and plain unethical. I too believe that a society can be judged by the way it treats its weakest members.

Just the rednecks, Christian fundamentalists, racists, right-wingers and Tea Party followers live in blissful ignorance, unaware of the social suicide they are committing.

I couldn't have put it better, I feel the same and as much as I love this country and it's opportunities, me too, when I really had no other choice, I would keep my Belgian citizenship. When I came here 4 years ago, it was like being thrown back in time for at least 15 years. This country has the possibility to be heaven on earth but screws up in so many ways because of all the argument you mentioned before. Hard to understand sometimes. Still when it comes to opportunity... Europe is not comparable. When you're poor in Europe, they take care of you, but they pamper you so much that it's very hard if not impossible to get out. Here... you better be healthy but there is a better chance to change the situation, when you put some effort into it. All Americans think they're free... well... as long as you go with the flow... you are in a way, but you might wonder whether this is the kind of freedom you aim for. I felt less controlled in Belgium to be honest.

Edited November 9, 2010 by CVB

[Captain Oates 911]

Freedom ? It's amazing how one can get used to billions of laws stacked on top of each other and simply adjust to it and find it normal after a few years. I have never felt more watched and regulated since I visited East Berlin BEFORE the wall came down. There are rangers on the lake with sunglasses and guns. There are planes getting people for speeding. There are black shirted security people in the park. Everywhere I look there are fat people in black uniforms who carry guns and watch me.

The thing about stepping back in time is something that seems to strike all Europeans.

I was around in the 1950's and I remember speed cops and intense religion and the anti gay, anti abortion, no nipples, stuff. That means that when I came to the US I simply had to resort to the tactics of the 1950's to survive. I ceased religious observance when I was 10, but had to wait years before I could speak otherwise the kind and gentle and loving people would have made sure I was denied a job in that town and tried their best to cause me maximum hurt. At my first job I worked with a 17 year old girl who had a baby and was unmarried. She suffered from the religious people who treated her like dirt. It took 50 years for all those nasty aspects of life in Britain to be cured and then I come here and the clock is set back to those bad old days. Luckily I am proof against all the discrimination and threats from the religious because I am comfortably retired and they can't do anything to me or exclude me any more. My idea of hell would be living in a small town in the South where time has stood still since the stone faced pilgrims.

So why do I stay ? I am having a great time in the sun with my shooting club and big car and boat and it's the place to be for an active investor. All the things that I would find intolerable if I was 25 and raising a family, simply do not apply to me and I can sidestep them. When I see a huge sign at the side of road which says 'Jesus is LORD in THIS valley', I feel a bit uncomfortable at the implied threat, but I know they can't get me.

My wife has a great job which is mega safe and we get superb health insurance. Our path of retreat is well covered if that changes. In a couple of weeks I will be a citizen and then when I am at the club and some church goer says they would machine gun and bayonet people on the Mexican Border - every man, woman, child and baby - I will be able to open my mouth as an equal (not an alien) and say that is wrong.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Alan the Red

[TracyTN 237]

Until the U.S. has free universal health care, there is no way I would give up my U.K. Citizenship. It could mean the difference between life and death or at least being reduced to abject poverty. My red passport guarantees that can never happen to me.

I like life in the U.S. but only so long as I am reasonably healthy and the insurance is paying up. I feel sorry for Americans who have no safety net were things to go badly wrong with their health and the insurance company stops coverage or wriggles out of the contract...

Most Americans simply refuse to think about it. My USC wife is deeply aware of this reality and plans on doing 3 years in the U.K. and getting a red passport when she early retires. She lived there for a year and didn't pay a cent - or even a penny. It is worth literally millions of dollars or even life itself in some circumstances.

If the U.K. started to refuse dual citizenship I would withdraw my U.S. Citizenship application right now. I reckon a lot of Canadians would too from what I have read.

I hear you, Alan, though I get a little annoyed seeing health care in the UK deemed as 'free'. 11% of your income (last time hubby checked) is NOT free, and is still more than I pay for my private healthcare through my employer (for myself, my husband and our child). Though it is free in the UK for those in certain circumstances.

[justashooter 430]

I see. The reason why I was asking is because I wanted to make sure everything is clear and final. I mean I am not trying to possess two citizenship or anything. I'm a Chinese at birth. And I believe neither US nor China allows dual citizenship. I guess next time when I revisit China, I will definitely apply for a visa to enter. Also I respect both countries dearly. While I'm taking the oath to America, I want to make sure that I say my most respectful farewell to my birth country as well, so I hope there is a formal way of letting the birth country know that I actually did become a citizen of another country. That's just my thought. I think I will ask some Chinese-American later about their experience. But thanks guys for your replies.

once you get your USA citizenship don't risk entering china with your chinese passport and go on thinking you are an American. if you enter with chinese passport you can be thrown in jail under chinese rules and the US embassy can do nothing for you. lot's of "American" chinese rotting in chinese jails today because they entered with thier red book.

[Captain Oates 911]

I hear you, Alan, though I get a little annoyed seeing health care in the UK deemed as 'free'. 11% of your income (last time hubby checked) is NOT free, and is still more than I pay for my private healthcare through my employer (for myself, my husband and our child). Though it is free in the UK for those in certain circumstances.

I agree that it is not free. You and I are in easy street so long as our private health care is 'provided' but a 55 year old in the US who cannot work in a good job is in a very precarious position. If my wife early retired at 55, we would have 10 years of health care to pay at say 12k each for good cover ? That's a quarter million down the drain compared to living in a nice part of England for the gap years.

The US system is like driving a car drunk with no seat belt. Most times you will get home ok in comfort and have more money next day than the guy who paid for a taxi home. However, if anything goes wrong, we will wish we had taken the safe option - universal health care. The 11% in the UK covers Unemployment Pay and Welfare and the State Pension as well as the NHS. My local hospital here pays people to cruise the parking lot offering golf cart rides for those too fat to walk to the front door. They also employ people to stand at the door and wish me a nice day as I leave. I saw a specialist within 10 minutes of my phone call last year.

They wouldn't give me the time of day if we couldn't afford insurance and we are one redundancy letter away from losing our insurance and then our house and lifetime savings. We could be in that situation tomorrow and so could you. It's like walking home through the ghetto at 3am - 90% of the time that works ok - but it's just not a formula for relaxing and enjoying life.

[TracyTN 237]

You'll get no arguments from me about the slippery slope all Americans are on for health care. Our system is far from ideal, but I also find the UK solution to be less than great too. I wish a happy medium between our two systems could be found and implemented.

I just know that MANY Americans are under the false impression that UK healthcare is free. We burst that bubble for a waitress just last week who was sure that's how it was there. Just wanting a little truth in advertising, that's all.

[Captain Oates 911]

You'll get no arguments from me about the slippery slope all Americans are on for health care. Our system is far from ideal, but I also find the UK solution to be less than great too. I wish a happy medium between our two systems could be found and implemented.

I just know that MANY Americans are under the false impression that UK healthcare is free. We burst that bubble for a waitress just last week who was sure that's how it was there. Just wanting a little truth in advertising, that's all.

I want the French system. They have 4 times as many doctors per head of population than the Brits but they do speak French to you. I have been in a German doctor's surgery - very nice too. I have been in an inner city hospital in the UK which was 3rd world and a total disgrace. I left and went to a hospital in a 'nice' area 12 miles way and it was US standard.

Actually the UK system is totally 100% free if you don't work because you are disabled or old or mentally ill or craftily self - employed or yes...work shy. 'From each according to their ability, to each according to their need' and all that.

Every old person gets 100% free health care with no co pay or deductibles whether they have ever worked or not. No enrollments, no part A and part B - no supplementary insurance - no throwing you out of hospital after 6 weeks - that's a good thing and a huge saving in admin.

Many old people in the US shoot themselves which is an option not available in the UK

[TracyTN 237]

I want the French system. They have 4 times as many doctors per head of population than the Brits but they do speak French to you. I have been in a German doctor's surgery - very nice too. I have been in an inner city hospital in the UK which was 3rd world and a total disgrace. I left and went to a hospital in a 'nice' area 12 miles way and it was US standard.

Actually the UK system is totally 100% free if you don't work because you are disabled or old or mentally ill or craftily self - employed or yes...work shy. 'From each according to their ability, to each according to their need' and all that.

Every old person gets 100% free health care with no co pay or deductibles whether they have ever worked or not. No enrollments, no part A and part B - no supplementary insurance - no throwing you out of hospital after 6 weeks - that's a good thing and a huge saving in admin.

Many old people in the US shoot themselves which is an option not available in the UK

Interesting - shame about them speaking French, though.

Yes, I knew it was free in certain circumstances. But for the majority, it certainly is NOT free. But not having to worry about costs in your dotage is NICE. Where in the world did you hear that about being thrown out of a hospital after 6 weeks?? That's a little harsh, even with our system. Most hospitals are willing to work with families to pay back what they owe over time. Would be nice if you didn't have to worry about that - but alas! That's just part of what's so poorly broken.

at that last bit.

[Captain Oates 911]

Interesting - shame about them speaking French, though.

Yes, I knew it was free in certain circumstances. But for the majority, it certainly is NOT free. But not having to worry about costs in your dotage is NICE. Where in the world did you hear that about being thrown out of a hospital after 6 weeks?? That's a little harsh, even with our system. Most hospitals are willing to work with families to pay back what they owe over time. Would be nice if you didn't have to worry about that - but alas! That's just part of what's so poorly broken.

at that last bit.

They don't throw you out after 6 weeks in hospital as long as you can pay, but it will cost many thousands per week and Medicare will not pay. Everything in the US is wonderful if you can pay. You can even be a film star and beat hookers up and trash hotel rooms and nothing bad happens if you can pay. I can pay (at the mo) so the US is fine by me.

Chris Hitchens that awful English import became a US Citizen only a few years ago. He brags about how much he drank all day and night and he had man affairs with two of Margaret Thatchers Ministers and he is a life long Marxist and Trotskyite and joined their organizations as an officer. How come he gets USC ? At my Naturalization interview they asked me if I had a problem with drink and if I had been a commie and even about my gun club membership - yet Chris Hitchens gets Naturalized ?

Money....it's all about money ain't a damn thing funny - you have to have a car in this land of milk and honey

I digress, but the point is that if we ever get short of money through any reason - the US is not the place to be and a European passport is like gold and anyone who can hang on to theirs should make very effort to do so. It might just save your life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens

[JoannaV 174]

Yes. For now.

But here's the thing. When taking the Oath of Allegiance, one really swears off any loyalty to any other country. But, and it's a big BUT, it is possible, just possible, that one day an elected President of the United States will say . . . ####### . . . I don't accept that. That's hogwash. These new Americans have sworn and I will hold them accountable for their oath. This ain't Disneyland, after all.

Whoops, 1 signature on 1 Executive Order and every naturalized citizen has to provide proof within a certain time frame that they did indeed say goodbye to their former past.

Is it likely? I don't know. But it sure as heaven is possible.

And if ever that happens, we will quite happily flee to Britain.

I'm not worried about the consequences of the oath. I am however concerned about the morality of, basically, lying. It would feel like treason against the UK saying it I'm sure I will feel differently once I've been here a while longer though.

[CVB 18]

And if ever that happens, we will quite happily flee to Britain.

I'm not worried about the consequences of the oath. I am however concerned about the morality of, basically, lying. It would feel like treason against the UK saying it I'm sure I will feel differently once I've been here a while longer though.

I don't think you will feel differently after living here longer. Nationality is a strong feeling. Although I love this country I will never feel "American", always Belgian. When someone is raised in his country of birth and leaves that country at a certain adult age, the connection and the feeling with that country of origin never goes away. Giving up loyalty means, in my opinion, that in extreme situations, like war, you show loyalty to the US, not any other country. That is a fair request. I don't think the US government asks you to get rid of your roots.