Ohio and Wisconsin opt out of high speed rail, New York asks for their money

[mawilson 2,133]

Illinois wants it. We need HSR from Chicago-NY. Since Ohio wants out, I suggest we follow the Spread Networks model, the guys who bored through mountainsides to put a straight line 13.3ms RTT dark fiber route Chi-NY. Let's put the HSR through OH by expropriating the rights of way and digging the tunnels below ground with no access points in the state. Who needs Clevelanders on our trains anyway?

Now that's just evil

[scandal 951]

Now that's just evil

Thank you

[Heracles 417]

This will only be true if those jobs in the hubs are high paid. No one is going to be getting on am expensive HSR to commute to their sad little retail or call center job. This is why the train is so popular in NYC and DC suburbs. The jobs commuters commute to pay enough where train fare is affordable.

Well yeah, I am not talking about a low-paid workers using such a service.

Then again, the other issue with PT is cost, as using Amtrak now costs about the same as a flight to the Andromeda Galaxy. Whereas, equivalent services are reasonably priced abroad. I should be able to jump on an Amtrack from DC to NY for $40 one way or $60 to Chicago. Yet have you seen the prices? $200+ one way to NYC.

[Danno 1,228]

R&D is America's future, perhaps those in middle American states or towns have not received this extremely important memo. These same folks with honestly many having nothing to their name, nothing more than some truck, their guns and a mobile home, claim they know what is best for the country. Flat-out ignoring, albeit due to the ignorance and being naive, the success of people in other countries utilizing a system they swear is the root of evil.

It's common sense that together we do better, hence why it's encouraged in so many private organizations and the military. Nope, not for modern repubs, taxes are the root of evil; rather than a sound means to pool resources together to get the country on track.

PS This is why you will seldom find a double-wide in countries like AUS. The only thing double-wide is the $30K boats many blue-collar workers own, used for fishing.

1. Hiring high priced firms to produce unrealistic price projections for a project is not R&D.

2. If you think opposition to unwarranted, high priced rail lines which will barely touch but a fraction of commuters is headed up by people in Mobile homes.... you are either ignorant or afraid to accept not every town or city will benefit from paying huge sums for this specific form of transportation.

3. How you associate "group think" or collective discussions with the military is laughable.

Batter, you're OUT!

[mawilson 2,133]

Well yeah, I am not talking about a low-paid workers using such a service.

Then again, the other issue with PT is cost, as using Amtrak now costs about the same as a flight to the Andromeda Galaxy. Whereas, equivalent services are reasonably priced abroad. I should be able to jump on an Amtrack from DC to NY for $40 one way or $60 to Chicago. Yet have you seen the prices? $200+ one way to NYC.

In what universe are they reasonably priced abroad?

A Virgin train from London to Liverpool costs £120+ (almost $200) or £190+ (almost $300) first-class.

[Heracles 417]

In what universe are they reasonably priced abroad?

A Virgin train from London to Liverpool costs £120+ (almost $200) or £190+ (almost $300) first-class.

Whenever I took rail throughout Europe and Asia it was dirt cheap. Forget about the UK, as everything is a royal ripoff there. Even in this economy and the pound hammered, things are only only 4 times the price than the usual 7.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Heracles

[scandal 951]

A Virgin train from London to Liverpool costs £120+ (almost $200) or £190+ (almost $300) first-class.

You might also want to price out Eurostar under the Channel, from Kings Cross/St. Pancras to Paris or Brussels. Ouch.

Meanwhile here is the Amtrak fare I was pricing out for my son to visit me over the holidays. In the end he's flying from Toronto, rather than busing him to Buffalo to take the train. $60/oneway Buffalo-Chicago, no additional fees or taxes for a standard adult fare.

Friday, December 24, 2010 49 Lake Shore Limited (BUF - CHI)

Depart: 11:59 pm, Fri, Dec 24, 2010

Arrive: 9:45 am, Sat, Dec 25, 2010

Duration: 10 hr, 46 min

Amenities

* 1 Adult $60.00

* 1 Reserved Coach Seat

* Subtotal $60.00

Monday, January 3, 2011 448 Lake Shore Limited (CHI - BUF)

Depart: 9:30 pm, Mon, Jan 3, 2011

Arrive: 8:58 am, Tue, Jan 4, 2011

Duration: 10 hr, 28 min

Amenities

* 1 Adult $60.00

* 1 Reserved Coach Seat

* Subtotal $60.00

Terms & Conditions

Total $120.00

[Heracles 417]

1. Hiring high priced firms to produce unrealistic price projections for a project is not R&D.

2. If you think opposition to unwarranted, high priced rail lines which will barely touch but a fraction of commuters is headed up by people in Mobile homes.... you are either ignorant or afraid to accept not every town or city will benefit from paying huge sums for this specific form of transportation.

3. How you associate "group think" or collective discussions with the military is laughable.

Batter, you're OUT!

Dano, come post once a fellow repub or teaparty clown comes up with some real ideas beyond party rhetoric like private sector will create all the jobs. It's us socialist that can buy and sell property in the Outer Banks, like it's just been destroyed by fire. I'd like to see anyone from NC come purchase a house in equivalent Australian beaches, where the water is not green.

Opposition comes from fools. The same types who say the country is bankrupt but have no problem with $3+ trillion wasted on defense and wars.

Group three are fools, as they are being played like puppets by the wealthy group aforementioned [car dealer owners] and do not even realize it. Made to think be paid a legitimate salary for a days work is unamerican, while their amassing of ridiculous amounts of money for doing nothing is just being American. That cutting off people's unemployment benefits is also the 'smart' thing to do, as is providing FA in health care yet paying 3 times everyone else and for a crappier service.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Ohio High Speed Rail Would Run On $17 Million Deficit

CENTRAL OHIO -- High-speed rail advocates say they are looking at all options to finance a projected $17 million subsidy needed to operate a passenger system between Cleveland and Cincinnati.

According to an Amtrak feasibility study, the system would have annual operating expenses of $29.2 million and generate $12.2 million in direct revenue. The $17 million difference would be funded by the government.

"We are literally leaving no stone unturned," says Stu Nicholson of the Ohio Rail Development Commission. He says funds could come from ODOT's "Blue Sign" program in which restaurants and gas stations pay for advertising near interstate off-ramps, naming rights for trains or corridors or from federal grants.

"But also consider the fact that as you start to grow your passenger base, you also start to grow your revenue base," says Nicholson. "And, quite honestly, there is no transportation system in this country that pays for itself."

The proposal calls for passenger trains to travel up to 79 miles per hour on existing freight rail lines. The tracks owned by CSX, Norfolk-Southern and the Indiana & Ohio Railway Company (IORY) would be upgraded at a public cost of more than $236 million. While taxpayer money is being used to improve privately-owned property, Nicholson says there is still a public benefit.

"The public benefit being that you get the option of being able to travel safely and efficiently on a passenger train," he says. "The other side of the public benefit is that Ohio businesses that rely on the railroads get a better railroad."

He says the railroads have been very supportive of the proposal so far. All of the passenger train schedules and stops will have to be approved by the freight companies. Nicholson says federal law gives passenger trains right-of-way on the entire Amtrak system but they hope to minimize any delays to the freight trains as well.

Amtrak's study says the city of Columbus has offered space in the Columbus Convention Center as a passenger rail station.

The Cleveland terminal would be at the existing Lakefront Station, and the Cincinnati stop would be at the "Boat House" area on the riverfront.

The study suggests eight trains passing through the Columbus station: four headed north and four headed south.

The first train would leave for Cleveland at 6:32 a.m., and the final train would arrive from Cincinnati at 7:22 p.m.

A trip from Columbus to Cleveland would take 3 hours and 13 minutes.

Columbus to Cincinnati (through Dayton) would take 3 hours and 7 minutes.

The full Cincinnati-to-Cleveland journey would be about 6 hours and 30 minutes.

"That's because it's a start up. As you start to ramp up service and make infrastructure improvements in the corridor, you will see those travel times reduced," Nicholson says.

According to Nicholson, fares from Columbus would range between $20 and $25.

Neither the Cleveland nor Cincinnati stops are expected to conveniently connect to Amtrak's current east-west services.

Nicholson says 14 other states have already created rail systems similar to what Ohio is proposing. And dozens of states are vying for nearly $8 billion in federal stimulus funds dedicated to improving high-speed rail. Nicholson believes Ohio has a very good chance in the competition because this plan is different from other states' proposals.

"We're talking about bringing and entirely new passenger rail corridor with a population base of six million people into the national system," he says. "We're not applying for money to expand service in a corridor where there's already passenger rail."

Ohio rail officials plan to submit the request for federal funds on or before the Oct. 2 deadline.

The Amtrak study will be a significant part of the application.

If the proposal is rejected, there is no back-up plan.

RESOURCES

"3C is Me" Program: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Rail/Programs/passenger/3CisME/Page

s/default.aspx

Read the Amtrak Feasibility Study for yourself: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Rail/Programs/passenger/3CisME/Quic

kStartDocs/Amtrak%20Draft%203C%20Report%2009-15-2009.pdf

NBC 4 Analysis

Columbus to Cleveland Car Train

Max Speed (mph) 65 79

Mileage 142 132

Fuel ($2.50/gallon, 18 mpg) $19.72

Ticket/Fare (approx.) $25.00

Time in Transit 2:25 3:13

Value of Your Time ($10/hr) $24.17 $32.17

Safely Work In Transit NO YES

Vehicle at Destination YES NO

NBC 4 Analysis

Columbus to Cincinnati Car Train

Max Speed (mph) 65 79

Mileage 108 123

Fuel ($2.50/gallon, 18 mpg) $15.00

Ticket/Fare (approx.) $25.00

Time in Transit 1:49 3:07

Value of Your Time ($10/hr) $18.17 $31.17

Safely Work in Transit NO YES

Vehicle at Destination YES NO

Amtrak Feasibility Study for Ohio ($ in Millions)

Route Miles 255

Estimated Annual Ridership (for 2009) 478,000

Capital for Infrastructure Improvements $236.2

Capital for Track Upgrading $ 51.4

Capital for Mechanical Facilities $ 55.0

Capital for Equipment Procurement $175.0

Estimated Annual Revenue $ 12.2

Estimated Annual Operating Expense $ 29.2

Estimated Annual Operating Subsidy $ 17.0

http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2009/sep/16/3-c-rail-who-pays-32727-vi-2254/

http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2009/sep/16/ohio_high_speed_rail_would_run_on_17_million_defic-ar-17127/

[Amby 490]

I like trains in Europe because they're convenient. I've never really been a fan of trains in the US, but right now the closest train station is about 45 minutes from my house. I will them when they're closer

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The biggest advocate of this failed project was a republican.

Oh not just one. Sarah supported this project when running for governor up there. You know, all this money from this evil federal government to create jobs in her home state sounded too good a deal to rally against.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There is no point in giving the people of Ohio and Wisconsin HSR. They won't use it. New Yorkers will.

Folks in OH and WI don't need no stinkin' HSR. They're on the way back to the future.

[^_^ 5,021]

Folks in OH and WI don't need no stinkin' HSR.

I am glad their governors are standing up on behalf of their states and saying no to something that won't add any value to their states. This is a good thing. This money is better used in the NE anyway.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I am glad their governors are standing up on behalf of their states and saying no to something that won't add any value to their states. This is a good thing. This money is better used in the NE anyway.

Indeed. Let OH and WI save their future away. Other parts of the union will be better off for it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Typical reply of the brainwashed: All infrastructure projects are "bridges to nowhere" and just a waste of money. Sure, blame it all on government, while types like yourselves whine about paying taxes. The political system is deadlocked by obstructionist behavior and slogans like "no new taxes" only result in more government borrowing (which certainly means higher taxes in the future), while our infrastructure is crumbling and other countries are surpassing us. Just more short-term thinking.

Yep.