72% of black babies born to unwed moms

[peejay 327]

Not very many. That's my point. What's their bigger problem, that they're unmarried or that they're poor?

In our society the biggest problem is that they are poor. If they lived elsewhere in most of the world it would be their problem. In the USA it somehow becomes "our problem". That is the main problem. Why should their condition be my problem? I could care less how anyone else conducts their lives as long as it doesn't effect me. Let the chips fall where they may. What you sow is what you reap. I didn't cause this. Why should I be burdened? I have problems of my own that I have to deal with. Why should society be burdened?

The big question between liberals and conservatives in our society is how much government interdiction is appropriate. That is the billion dollar (literally) question. When do we say, "Tough sh*t?"

Edited November 7, 2010 by peejay

[^_^ 5,021]

Social safety nets promote social stability. Yes, there is such a thing as "too much", but show me a large country that has "too little" and I'll show you a country with serious political and social instability.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The poor are part of society. You can excise people from society just because you personally don't want to pay for them. Like it or not you live in the same society as the poor. And yes, you do have to pay for them. Everyone does.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Ron Burgundy

[peejay 327]

Social safety nets promote social stability. Yes, there is such a thing as "too much", but show me a large country that has "too little" and I'll show you a country with serious political and social instability.

Depends on your definition political & social stability / instability. Depends on who on VJ you would ask. Some on here would opine that the USA is socially and politically unstable.

But opinions are like azzholes...everyone has one and all of them stink.

The poor are part of society. You can excise people from society just because you personally don't want to pay for them. Like it or not you live in the same society as the poor. And yes, you do have to pay for them. Everyone does.

'Everyone' takes on a large chunk of the earth. Or are you just referring to the good ol' USA?

Edited November 7, 2010 by peejay

[^_^ 5,021]

Depends on your definition political & social stability / instability. Depends on who on VJ you would ask. Some on here would opine that the USA is socially and politically unstable.

This country has gone through periods of significantly higher instability than anything that exists today. I don't know about it first hand but I have read and heard about it - before I was even born and shortly after. You likely remember it.

[peejay 327]

This country has gone through periods of significantly higher instability than anything that exists today. I don't know about it first hand but I have read and heard about it - before I was even born and shortly after. You likely remember it.

I have Alzheimers, so I can't even remember what I ate for breakfast.

But seriously, even the worst in the USA is nothing compared to what goes on in a big chunk of the world.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

This country has gone through periods of significantly higher instability than anything that exists today. I don't know about it first hand but I have read and heard about it - before I was even born and shortly after. You likely remember it.

I remember the race riots of the sixties, before the Great Society, and the race riots of more recent times. No great change, so I would say that experiment was a failure. But that doesn't mean we stop trying, just maybe try something else for a change.

[^_^ 5,021]

I have Alzheimers, so I can't even remember what I ate for breakfast.

But seriously, even the worst in the USA is nothing compared to what goes on in a big chunk of the world.

I agree. We could likely reduce our safety net to some extent and still not approach "international" (third world, actually) levels of instability. But to eliminate it altogether? We'd look like those parts of the world were thankful we don't look like.

[peejay 327]

I agree. We could likely reduce our safety net to some extent and still not approach "international" (third world, actually) levels of instability. But to eliminate it altogether? We'd look like those parts of the world were thankful we don't look like.

The point I was getting at was that NGO's in the past were the entities that largely addressed these problems. NGO's meaning non-governmental organizations such as religious and/or private charitable organizations. Government intervention has largely been late 20th century phenomenon here in the USA. Unlike western Europe that has been dabbling in this sort of thing for quite some time and other parts of the world not at all.

[lostinblue 1,989]

The poor are part of society. You can excise people from society just because you personally don't want to pay for them. Like it or not you live in the same society as the poor. And yes, you do have to pay for them. Everyone does.

If you are poor because of a disease say like MS and cannot work I can say sure support them. BUT .... how much support do we have to give someone because they CONTINUE to make bad choices. The number one cause for poverty in this country are single unwed mothers.Why should society have to pay for the welfare mother who dropped out of school at 15 and had her sixth child at the age of twenty four? Where is the responsability on her part to our society.What about the part of the culture of the blacks that say "you better not excell in school because you will be "too white"?What graduate from highschool ......how white of you .You liberals are all alike with the blame everyone and everything but me cop out. Lets put the blame where the blame belongs . The one who is spreading her legs and the father doing the breeding.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The point I was getting at was that NGO's in the past were the entities that largely addressed these problems. NGO's meaning non-governmental organizations such as religious and/or private charitable organizations. Government intervention has largely been late 20th century phenomenon here in the USA. Unlike western Europe that has been dabbling in this sort of thing for quite some time and other parts of the world not at all.

You refer to the New Deal and the Great Society, that come from a tradition of American Progressivism, including the secularization of society, and the creation of the nuclear family. Not only has religion been under attack, but so has the family. It's all part of the plan.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

If you are poor because of a disease say like MS and cannot work I can say sure support them. BUT .... how much support do we have to give someone because they CONTINUE to make bad choices. The number one cause for poverty in this country are single unwed mothers.Why should society have to pay for the welfare mother who dropped out of school at 15 and had her sixth child at the age of twenty four? Where is the responsability on her part to our society.What about the part of the culture of the blacks that say "you better not excell in school because you will be "too white"?What graduate from highschool ......how white of you .You liberals are all alike with the blame everyone and everything but me cop out. Lets put the blame where the blame belongs . The one who is spreading her legs and the father doing the breeding.

It's not just a "Black" phenomenon. You will find the same patterns among poor Whites as well.

[peejay 327]

If you are poor because of a disease say like MS and cannot work I can say sure support them. BUT .... how much support do we have to give someone because they CONTINUE to make bad choices. The number one cause for poverty in this country are single unwed mothers.Why should society have to pay for the welfare mother who dropped out of school at 15 and had her sixth child at the age of twenty four? Where is the responsability on her part to our society.What about the part of the culture of the blacks that say "you better not excell in school because you will be "too white"?What graduate from highschool ......how white of you .You liberals are all alike with the blame everyone and everything but me cop out. Lets put the blame where the blame belongs . The one who is spreading her legs and the father doing the breeding.

A lot of liberals are clueless because they have never actually seen it first hand. I don't know about blacks cutting each other down about acting "too white" because they wouldn't be talking about that around a white guy like me. But I do work with a lot of black guys because of my line of work offshore of Louisiana in the oilfields there. The black guys I know that are religious tend to have family stability. That trait seems to mark the difference within that culture.

However, a lot of the black guys I work with have attitudes that are totally alien to my beliefs and values. It really doesn't surprise me that 72% of black babies are illegitimate. A significant number I work with in Louisiana make good money and it is not uncommon for them to have several girlfriends on the side in addition to their legit family that they claim. I've worked with black guys that b*tch to me about the welfare agencies going after them to determine paternity of kids on the rolls. I hear the young black guys stringing along multiple women on the phone at work while taking personal calls. Some of these guys are married and set these other women up with money to supplement what they get from the government. These guys are like pigs rolling in sh*t. Up to a certain extent. They have their harems, but do have to pay for kids it is proved they fathered. But why would the woman drop a dime on them to welfare as long as they pay them off and set them up? It is when the woman gets pissed that they drop the dime. Other than that the women just claim they don't know who the daddy is. That way they get to double dip. And that is just black guys that have jobs and money. I have no idea what goes on elsewhere in that community. The money comes in from welfare regardless. In America it is the children that get the money, but it goes primarily to the mommy.

Of course I have seen my share of dawgs among the white guys I work with, but not even close to the level of the black guys I see. I'm not even claiming all black guys do this, but from what I see they do it way more than the white guys. They brag about it and are not ashamed by it. They are more open about it. And my observations are anecdotal to boot and specific to my experiences in Louisiana. But the proof is in the pudding as the old saying goes. That 72% doesn't come out of nowhere. From what I see it don't surprise me at all.

[Danno 1,228]

I think a child raised by a wealthy single mother has a much better shot at success in life than a child raised by a poor mother and father. I think we should focus less on getting these women married and more on getting them educated.

THis is simply putting the Cart before the horse mentality that has met so much failure... it's stunning you actually believe it will someday work.

IN fact, what you are trying to do is expect good healthy fruit to grow in poor soil, believing if you can just get one plant to grow it will break the pattern.

With healthy rich soil conducive to plant life... it almost grows without effort.

The Children of Single Mothers even in middle income homes are much more likely to: Get pregnant before marriage, drop out of school, have more difficulty with the law, become involved in drugs.

When it comes to the Black community in America, the vast majority of their problems stem from the break-down of the Black family.

THe Government programs... well intentioned as they were, have totally destroyed an already challenged and fragile part of America.

It's stunning that in 2010 so many still can't see the fundamental dynamics of what maintains a proper society.

Really folks, you are KILLING THEM with kindness.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Danno

[lostinblue 1,989]

It's not just a "Black" phenomenon. You will find the same patterns among poor Whites as well.

True .. just sticking to the topic posted ....More than 40 years of debate

The black community's 72 percent rate eclipses that of most other groups: 17 percent of Asians, 29 percent of whites, 53 percent of Hispanics and 66 percent of Native Americans were born to unwed mothers in 2008, the most recent year for which government figures are available. The rate for the overall U.S. population was 41 percent.

This issue entered the public consciousness in 1965, when a now famous government report by future senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan described a "tangle of pathology" among blacks that fed a 24 percent black "illegitimacy" rate. The white rate then was 4 percent.

Many accused Moynihan, who was white, of "blaming the victim:" of saying that black behavior, not racism, was the main cause of black problems. That dynamic persists. Most talk about the 72 percent has come from conservative circles; when influential blacks like Bill Cosby have spoken out about it, they have been all but shouted down by liberals saying that a lack of equal education and opportunity are the true root of the problem.