Back from Ukraine/Czech

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

No. Common sense in that they don't worry about the paperwork before they take action. Here, if the cops come up to kids drinking beer and smoking cigarettes, time was they'd call their parents or deal with it in some other way. Now, they have to file a report, send the kids through a counseling program and all the while they're watching what they do and say so they don't get in trouble themselves.

The county sheriff or the small town cop can still do common sense stuff like that. City cops, not so much.

That's what we try to do here in America too and it doesn't work either. Like you said about the locked doors, we'll just turn around. But, what Americans don't seem to realize is you can't lock every single door because eventually you'll get cold standing outside. Instead of us figuring out how to make it work we're under the impression we can build a new house farther away from the problems.

True, but there is a cultural difference here, Slim. There simply are not so many Americans that are alcoholic as in the FSU and you do not see local convenience stores selling beer to children and drunk children hanging out at the corner. Those are commomn sights in Ukraine and believe me, it terrifies mothers and grandmothers.

On the other hand, kids here can get ahold of pot a lot easier than they can get alcohol.

[slim 1,514]

Kids here still do dumb stuff. Police can't "take care of it" like they used to. It's important to note parents don't "take care of it" like they used to either. Could be a connection there.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Kids here still do dumb stuff. Police can't "take care of it" like they used to. It's important to note parents don't "take care of it" like they used to either. Could be a connection there.

If parents or police "take care of it" with anything stronger than a scolding - they get charged with abuse. That is the connection.

A cop here in Louisville told me that he arrested a thirteen year old who actually pointed a loaded pistol at another officer. He was out in 30 days. The juvenile Justice System here has no space or inclination to keep kids. They send 'em back to mom and dad. When mom and dad try to fix the situation - see above.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If parents or police "take care of it" with anything stronger than a scolding - they get charged with abuse. That is the connection.

A cop here in Louisville told me that he arrested a thirteen year old who actually pointed a loaded pistol at another officer. He was out in 30 days. The juvenile Justice System here has no space or inclination to keep kids. They send 'em back to mom and dad. When mom and dad try to fix the situation - see above.

10 to 1 he lived west of 8th Ave.

[Brad and Vika 129]

10 to 1 he lived west of 8th Ave.

Or south of Poplar Level. No bet.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Or south of Poplar Level. No bet.

For people unfamiliar with Luhvuhl (proper proununciation of Louisville) Poplar Level is a road, he doesn't mean "shorter than tall skinny trees" It indicates a neighborhood where even Mox would carry "cocked and locked"

[slim 1,514]

a neighborhood where even Mox would carry "cocked and locked"

I thought those didn't exist.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I thought those didn't exist.

Then Mox was never in Luhvuhl.

[slim 1,514]

I read today on another forum about someone not "needing" to carry cocked and locked. It's amazing to me that people feel more threatened in one place than another. I try to explain to them if you're carrying because you feel threatened you're carrying for the wrong reasons.

It falls on deaf ears.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I read today on another forum about someone not "needing" to carry cocked and locked. It's amazing to me that people feel more threatened in one place than another. I try to explain to them if you're carrying because you feel threatened you're carrying for the wrong reasons.

It falls on deaf ears.

If you are going to carry a gun, carry it cocked and locked. Otherwise, leave it at home. If you haven't got the nerve to carry John Browning's best the way it was made to be carried, then get a good cell phone and call 911! At least that is my opinion.

The reason you carry a gun is so you DON'T feel threatened.

[slim 1,514]

My favorite is the "I'll just move farther away" or "I'll avoid that area."

Yep, that's what John Adams and Paul Revere would've done too. I'm sure Sam Adams and John Hancock avoided places during peacetime.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I'm all for avoiding trouble, but sometimes you have to go through an area that may not be safe. I carry sometimes when on the Western KY Parkway late at night. I have no real choice but to come home that way, but some of the more isolated exits are pretty far from anything. I do not agree with the "I'll just take my AK-47 with me then" attitude either. Just enough firepower to get the message across IF necessary, or get the job done IF necessary. I can't carry on the job because i work in a bank building, and they take a dim view of it.

[visaveteran 1]

I think anywhere and everywhere is potentialy unsafe, so I elect to carry everywhere (except where prohibited and I know there is screening). I offer Virginia Tech and Ft. Hood as examples of places few would consider unsafe...in fact, quite the opposite.

So, I will echo others sentiments that it's best to carrying in condition one. Life and death can come down to microseconds.

[slim 1,514]

I do not agree with the "I'll just take my AK-47 with me then" attitude either. Just enough firepower to get the message across IF necessary, or get the job done IF necessary.

If I need a gun I'd much rather have an AK-47 than a .45. However, it's not legal for me to carry a concealed AK-47 in my state. So, .45 is the way to go since they don't make a .46.

As for carrying "enough firepower" I started off carrying my .45 (which held 11 shots) and two extra mags of 10 each. Over time I came to realize I shouldn't be loaded for bear when carrying. Carrying is to COUNTER a threat well enough to survive the situation, not to repel every threat out there. I'm not facing a SEAL team at the grocery store and if I were.... I'd be better off fleeing than fighting.

I'm all for the "stand your ground" and "be free where you are" and all that other hokey, but I'm also in the camp of "if it needs more killin than 11 shots of .45 then I'm outgunned and should flee." What's really cool is they recently passed the "Camp Perry exemption" here in Ohio which states you can carry loaded strippers or enblocs in your vehicle. (No loaded mags except handgun mags w/CCH.) That means if there's a threat that needs more killin than 11 shots of .45 I don't have to make it home... I just have to make it to the trunk.

I can't carry on the job because i work in a bank building, and they take a dim view of it.

Can you legally secure your firearm in your vehicle while on company property?

We're in that limbo zone right now of "employer's property" where our CCH doesn't guarantee our right to secure a handgun in a vehicle on company property. We have legislation in the works to protect that right.

I'm not really keen on the govt. passing laws to "protect" our rights - our rights should be protected without a law stating they're protected - but it would be nice to thumb noses at employers, "Yep, I have my gun right out there in the parking lot. We may not be 100% safe in your building, but at least I can be safe in your parking lot."

I think anywhere and everywhere is potentialy unsafe, so I elect to carry everywhere (except where prohibited and I know there is screening). I offer Virginia Tech and Ft. Hood as examples of places few would consider unsafe...in fact, quite the opposite.

I had a nice chat with a fellow at work today about this very subject. He said it was really great that companies don't allow folks to keep guns in their vehicles and/or carry them inside because "there are too many crazy people out there." When I said, "You mean the crazies that've been background checked, fingerprinted and licensed to carry?" He responed, "Yep. Too many of those guys are crazy too."

When I asked him what the folks who wanted to bring a gun to work that weren't background checked, fingerprinted and licensed did he said, "well, they just do it anyway."

"Ah ha! So if they just do it anyway, why do you make a rule or law to stop them from doing it? Are you really stopping them by making it a rule? If you make a set of hoops for people to jump through in order to legally carry a gun - or do anything else - are you prohibiting the 'bad guys' from doing the action that caused you to make the rule in the first place?"

"No."

"Well, then why are we making it a rule? If you don't stop the bad guys from doing bad stuff yet you limit the good guys from doing good stuff.... what's the point?"

"Uhh... well......"

"The point is the government gets more control of your life. They now have one more 'rule' they can enforce upon you and one more 'bad thing' you can be held accountable for. Each new rule and 'bad thing' takes them a step closer to being more and more restrictive of your rights. Pretty soon they're going to be able to tell you how much water your toilet can have in it or which car you have to drive. Is that really the government's job? Should the federal government be regulating those types of things?"

(This guy was obviously a thinker and at least somewhat aware of his heritage) "You're right man. So, what would our states be like if they finally stood up to the federal government?"

"They'd be well within their rights."

We chatted for a few extra minutes but it was obvious he was one of those "the government is supposed to tell us what to do and what not to do" types. When I brought up the concept of individual liberty he had to really sit back and think on it. "Yeah, I guess you're right. We are supposed to be free. It seems like it's getting worsse and worse."

I couldn't agree more.

So, I will echo others sentiments that it's best to carrying in condition one. Life and death can come down to microseconds.

Before I got on my soapbox up there I was trying to make the point to that gentleman (and many others) that as Americans we should not only be free to exercise any and/or ALL of our rights wherever and whenever we choose, but we should do it all the time and everywhere because we CAN. Eventually, when enough people stop doing it.... it goes away.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Can you legally secure your firearm in your vehicle while on company property?

We're in that limbo zone right now of "employer's property" where our CCH doesn't guarantee our right to secure a handgun in a vehicle on company property. We have legislation in the works to protect that right.

No, I can't. Our parking is at the structure owned by the hotel next door.