Sending money to your wife's family for hospital expenses

[Kevin- 13]

I agree and disagree with that. I quoted him in agreement earlier, because the principle is sound. If you live in the Philippines, you're likely to live through some typhoons. If you're a human on this earth, you're likely to encounter medical expenses at unexpected times. Some medical expenses can be beyond what a person is ever capable of saving up for. But if they're asking for "help" by seeking the whole bill from their one relative in America every single time something happens, then they're obviously just relying on that person. Responsible people plan for the "known unknowns" as much as they can.

If, on the other hand, the family only asks for help when it's really needed, that's a different thing. There is also the fact that some families are just really, really poor and can't do much beyond day to day living. In those situations I say the help should include "teach a man to fish".

A little off topic: If you really want to help somebody over there get ahead, help them take a high quality English course (if needed), get them a reliable computer with reliable internet, and help them learn web development. They can use sites like odesk.com to make a good living providing a useful service. Web development is just an example that I'm personally aware of, anything that can be done on a remote contract basis would work.

[thelastpetitioner 218]

gillies,by offering her schooling in exchange of giving you the control of her income ( which IS controlling ) youre just keeping the cycle going.at this point it seems like YOU are raising a child,you have to give something to receive something,thats not marriage,thats business.i know you want your marriage to work,but trust me buddy,it wont unless you take serious and correct steps.a slap on the wrist and keeping the whole deal going is not how it should be and what she needs

I agree and disagree with that. I quoted him in agreement earlier, because the principle is sound. If you live in the Philippines, you're likely to live through some typhoons. If you're a human on this earth, you're likely to encounter medical expenses at unexpected times.

his wife has a big fat history with money,and there is a possibility of her lying about sending money to relatives.plus my understanding of Filipino culture is you have to be supportive of your immediate family,not an entire tribe

[Gilles 4]

Hi Giles!

I happened to pass by to your thread.... so while I am resting in front of my computer.... I would give my one-fourth cent.... LoL

About your situation in hospital bills, you wife can help them but probably to a certain extent only that your financial side will not suffer. My one-eighth cent on this, she probably not the only family member and shouldn't be paying all the bills. Her other relatives could contribute in paying hospital bills as hospital bills are really expensive. Like for instance, I have uncle-grandpa that doesn't have kids, so when he got hospitalized, I gave money for the bills but I only gave what I really can afford to give (which mean the extra money that we usually have to buy some non-necessities stuff). The rest of my family members contributed to help paid his bills.

This is just my mere observation and I don't intend to insult anybody nor hurt feelings by addressing this. Most Filipinas have this so-called "kayabangan" and sending money to their family implicate progress to their family. It will give their neighbors the notion that they are getting rich and they would be above them in terms of status in life (esp. if they came from a poor way of living). So no matter how much money they will send to their family in the Philippines, it will never be enough.

My one-eighth cent of your situation, did she marry you in order to get here and work to earn money for her family? or did she marry you in order to build a family of your own? and which reason weighs more?

You said you asked your wife about the future of your kids(if you already have), my husband asked me that too because we're comparing the way of living here and in the Philippines. I told him that we will save for our kids education and probably send them to Philippines for college if the quality of education is the same.

I am probably bias on my opinion or probably I am addressing some truth, I don't send money to my family in the Philippines like how most of the Filipinas regularly do because for me, helping is necessary but it always have boundaries. I have family here to take care of (though, just my husband and our little pup only for now). I have to think ahead of my family's future. I sound probably selfish, but come think of it, I didn't go in this foreign land to earn money for people that probably not thinking of my future but only what their present, I went here to build a family that I will call my own and have them until I could work no more.

Thanks for reading and responding. This line of yours caught my attention:

So no matter how much money they will send to their family in the Philippines, it will never be enough.

That being the case, you're greedy & stingy if you send them $1000 when you can only afford/justify $500 and you're greedy & stingy if you send them $0 when you can afford $500. So why not put the $500 in a retirement or baby fund to save for your own future?

I've heard that the families that receive money from their American based relatives don't use it wisely - they don't save it or they buy things that are considered luxuries by comparison. What I don't quite understand is how these Filipina families would pay for these things if they didn't have a relative in the USA who is sending them money. It's not like they would just fall down and die if they didn't get the money.

My wife said she wanted to marry me to have someone to love her and someone she could love in return. We had a discussion about sending money to her family prior to the time we committed to each other and she did indicate that we should come first. I try to remind her of that, but she just wines, saying her family needs the money.

[Gilles 4]

One of the things that you learn to do Gilles is to watch what people do instead of listening to what they say.

I was deficient that way. It was a personal weakness of mine. Too trusting. Naiive. Gullible.

It isn't worth anguishing over what she says and what it means. The only thing you can go by is what she does.

I can tell you what else she is doing: She's sending out feelers with other men. Dropping little hints, making allusions, turning on the charm and then turning it off. She's evaluating how they are responding. Lining up candidates. Eliminating others.

All of her actions - whether it is work or school & etc. have that component figured into it. I am not saying that she is actively pursuing an affair. What she is doing is keeping that option available in subtle ways, always covered in plausible deniability. By the looks of things, she will dump you if she can engineer the opportunity, rather than vice-versa.

You can talk about what you are going to do when the debt comes due, and how you are going to take full control of her income - but you can't plan with manipulators. You did not plan for her borrowing money in secret and against your will, and you can't plan for whatever she does next.

About the only thing you can count on is that like now, she will treat you as an enemy: do it behind your back and lie about it.

Like a lot of men, all she's got to do is charm you in bed and the most aggregious kinds of acts are forgotten. But what you have to remember is manipulative people are not capable of love and empathy. They can just as easily snuggle up to a rotting corpse as they can with you.

She's going to paint you in the eyes of other people in the manner that best suits her objectives. With potential lovers you are the manipulative, controlling, abusive ogre. They'll be set up to play the hero, rescuing her from your clutches. That is an irresistable role for a lot of men.

A person who demonstrates such brutal infidelity about money wouldn't think twice about other forms of infidelity. Your feelings are immaterial. People are objects to attain ends. The things that matter to her are cold calculations like where she is on permanent residency, what options she has available - not marriage vows.

When the next infidelity comes, and the next one after - I am not one to gloat with "I told you so". It's a sad thing.

So many beautiful, kind, and giving Filipinas out there pining away for a man. That's who I think about in these situations. The nice girls that would knock themselves out to take her place.

But Hey! I could be totally wrong and tomorrow she shows up with two of her scorching-hot younger friends and says "honey, I want to make this up to you..." Might be a game-changer in the offing, y'know?

Best of luck.

Well taken points about watching actions more than listening to words. But one area I disagree with you on is that they'll dump their American husband to get their way. We know dozens of American/Filipina couples in the community - many of whom are not even as well off financially as us. (perhaps that's because the wife is manipulating the husband into sending thousands of dollars every year to the Philippines) These women are young, often beautiful (compared to typical American women) and could easily snag a better looking man who made two or three times as much money as their husband does. But we don't see this happening even in a very small percent of the cases. My wife would not have gone to work if I continued to give her a reasonable amount of money per month and sent a bunch of money to her family on a periodic basis. Almost all of these other Filipina wives we know in our community have gone to work full time. So I know if we reach the limits of our finances and I no longer give in (or no longer give in independent of our finances), that she'll be motivated to get a higher paying job.

She's had opportunities to go to work full-time, but she rationalizes them away. She's filled out online applications and never followed up with the potential employer. She has friends who promised they'd get her a full-time job, but she never follows up and calls the friend back. There have been other similar instances. She rationalizes these opportunities away by saying that her Filipina friends lie about the opportunities or that the employers don't have openings. And in one instance, one of her friends got a full-time job somewhere where she had applied, but failed to follow up on or call the employer back. I've told her I'm aware of this and that I don't want us to invest in her schooling unless she can show that she's no longer going to rationalize away these opportunities.

[Gilles 4]

Gilles, I'm praying for you and your wife.

I hope she is not a purely evil manipulator as Bob suspects. I hope she will realize that she is in error, and that the good part of her will feel guilty for the way she is acting.

I don't know if I've read your other threads, but in this one you present evidence that can be seen two ways. She may be fighting conflicting emotions, including guilt, because she feels overwhelmingly obligated to help her family, but also knows she should be responsible with you, "her new family". It could also be what Bob says. I hope what he said about her behavior around other men is purely speculation extending from the financial infidelities, and isn't actually happening.

I have a very good sense of how well she covers her tracks and it's very clear to me she isn't looking around for other men. As Bob says, listen to what she does and not what she says. Yes, she'll joke about how she could get another man, but that is obviously a scare tactic she uses to help extort money out of our reserves. I think she does have conflicting emotions, but as long as I have the money, I find it difficult to say "no". In the last several months, I have changed and have a much easier time saying "no" - even in cases where we can justify the expense.

Does she believe in God? If she does, then a simple pair of questions can and should be applied to her actions. Ask her: Do you believe in God? (rhetorical to remind her) Does God approve of this? Explain the consequences of her actions as they pertain to you and her. You could include the comparison Bob made about her acting like the enemy, going behind your back and lying about it.

She goes to church and says she believes in God. She even goes to Bible study and participates in kids groups for her church. I've tried explaining to her that her behavior is in conflict with what the Bible says, and she replies with something like, "you don't even believe in God", as if my belief somehow makes the Bible apply less to her. If she's even a neophyte Christian, she should know that the beliefs of others have absolutely no impact on how much she should adhere to what the Bible says if she wants to be a good Christian. Then again, she has said because she is a Christian, she can engage in sinful behavior - lie to me, steal from me, treat me badly, etc. - and still be forgiven. From that, it seems to me that she looks at Christianity as a license to be bad.

I imagine the further away people are from enforcement of that new law, the more likely the hospitals will not release you if you don't pay. I know Bel's sister was held for several days when their baby was hospitalized. We helped, but we couldn't afford to pay the whole thing, and Bel does not want everyone relying on us for every need, just as Bob mentioned:And Adiiann mentioned:

I have a personal "weakness" in that if we can afford it, I'm tempted to help her family there with every thing they need. But this is not good for them. People need to support themselves, especially the siblings who are more than capable of supporting themselves. We've decided to help her mother, because most likely the siblings will stop supporting mom because there's a 'kano in the family now. But we are going to be careful about that, so that it's only for mom, and strongly encourage the younger siblings to get out on their own and live in their own means. Most people who are given a free ride through life become irresponsible and selfish people. Working for a living tends to teach a respectful attitude, and a healthy level of humility.

If you seek counseling BE CAREFUL!!! Not all counselors are equal, and not all counselors actually want to help marriages, even if they are using the Marriage Counselor title. Some female marriage counselors are actually stout anti-male feminists who want to carefully dismantle the marriages of the women who come to them for help. I imagine this is not common, but it definitely does happen. I personally know people who have had this happen to them. Imagine a marriage counselor telling the woman to do this: One night the husband is cooking dinner. When he's almost done she gathers the kids and goes to pick up some fast food. They bring it right back home and eat it at the kitchen table, all without her saying anything to him. She's been informed that if he gets angry about this, then he's an evil, terrible man and she should consider leaving him.

My wife won't go to counseling even if a gun were held to her head. We have an older Filipina friend who has some influence over my wife and we've both spoken with her about the situation. This woman isn't really a counselor, but after hearing my version of the events (she's heard my wife's side too) she tells me that I'm the man of the household. I read between the lines and what she's saying is that my decisions are the ones that we go by.

[Maxx121 14]

Honestly, only you truly know your wife and we are just on the outside looking in threw a peephole which you made for us. Im sure there is much more to your situation, if not you seem smart enough to move on when there is no hope.

From what i have read this has been going on for quite some time and she seems to be getting better from what you are saying. She went from not willing to work to working part time and realizing that what she was making was not enough. she seems to be trying even if its at a snails pace ssometimes people are like that, scared of change. If she is just scared to make the next steps in life just help her.

If she wants to go to school, let her. if you have to pay, tell her you will pay for one class and over that she must pay for more. when she starts school and if it goes well she will realize that she needs to make more to get more classes.

Honest, sometimes being married to a woman who acts like a child but is willing to learn is better than being married to an adult who is stubborn and refuses to change.

Just help her to see, if she puffs up and gets a fit. leave her be till she calms down. from what i have read in your posts it seems that knows how to think she just needs time to do it and rationalize everything out on her own. Just present her with the problem and the solutions and let her do the rest.

[Gilles 4]

gillies,by offering her schooling in exchange of giving you the control of her income ( which IS controlling ) youre just keeping the cycle going.at this point it seems like YOU are raising a child,you have to give something to receive something,thats not marriage,thats business.i know you want your marriage to work,but trust me buddy,it wont unless you take serious and correct steps.a slap on the wrist and keeping the whole deal going is not how it should be and what she needs

Are you suggesting I pay for her school out of our reserves without asking that she shape up her act? If I don't knock some sense into her, she'll continue to send 100% of her extra money to the Philippines.

his wife has a big fat history with money,and there is a possibility of her lying about sending money to relatives.plus my understanding of Filipino culture is you have to be supportive of your immediate family,not an entire tribe

I have no problem being generous with my wife's family from time to time. What I have a problem with is my wife being unaccountable and irresponsible when it comes to money and the fact that she fails to recognize that our needs must come first. This is why I need to reverse the mistake I made in allowing her to have her own bank account.

[Gilles 4]

Honestly, only you truly know your wife and we are just on the outside looking in threw a peephole which you made for us. Im sure there is much more to your situation, if not you seem smart enough to move on when there is no hope.

From what i have read this has been going on for quite some time and she seems to be getting better from what you are saying. She went from not willing to work to working part time and realizing that what she was making was not enough. she seems to be trying even if its at a snails pace ssometimes people are like that, scared of change. If she is just scared to make the next steps in life just help her.

If she wants to go to school, let her. if you have to pay, tell her you will pay for one class and over that she must pay for more. when she starts school and if it goes well she will realize that she needs to make more to get more classes.

Honest, sometimes being married to a woman who acts like a child but is willing to learn is better than being married to an adult who is stubborn and refuses to change.

Just help her to see, if she puffs up and gets a fit. leave her be till she calms down. from what i have read in your posts it seems that knows how to think she just needs time to do it and rationalize everything out on her own. Just present her with the problem and the solutions and let her do the rest.

Very well said. Other than using our reserves to pay for her school, I agree with everything you said. If I don't use our reserves to pay 100% of her schooling, she's going to throw a fit. So why should I pay only a small portion and leave the rest to her if she's still going to throw a fit?

[thelastpetitioner 218]

Are you suggesting I pay for her school out of our reserves without asking that she shape up her act? If I don't knock some sense into her, she'll continue to send 100% of her extra money to the Philippines.

i suggest either you dont pay at all,or pay with no expections from her.education is a right,you have held things from as childish as internet connection and computer to money for personal matters against her,has it changed a thing?

you dangling things that she wants up her head is NOT what you need to do,i can tell you that much

[Maxx121 14]

Very well said. Other than using our reserves to pay for her school, I agree with everything you said. If I don't use our reserves to pay 100% of her schooling, she's going to throw a fit. So why should I pay only a small portion and leave the rest to her if she's still going to throw a fit?

Because marriage is about helping each other. If she is willing to grow as a person and be more adult (even if she sometimes lapses) then you should be willing to grow as well and stop setting so many conditions.

If i remember correctly she refused to work in the past giving many excuses. now she has a part time job. paying for one class per semester is not alot of money at a decent community collge. If you pay for one and she pays for the other then that is more than fair and she is a part time student, hell if you are low income then you may get financial aid and get reimbursed.

both of you have to be willing to grow. maybe she will realize she wants to take more classes then tell her she has to pay for them, or work something else out.

[Tahoma 2,292]

Pinay words of wisdom...

godsgift...

...helping is good.. just dont abuse the person who is helping...

rheanick...

If you have extra money, give a certain amount that you are comforatble with...

...his wife has an attitude...

chaice...

I'm glad that me and my husband are so transparent with each other, and we're able to talk about everything, even the most awkward things.

In my point of view...money that was given is easier to spend than money that you've worked hard for...

bmtrrbt...

I also wonder why you cant just stop your wife and just be in control. Let your wife say what she wanna say.

I wonder when are you gonna take action about whats shes been doing? are you just gonna keep on posting the same issue here on vj?

Matt and Evieve...

Husband and wife should be honest to one another especially when it comes to money.

adiiann...

...no matter how much money they will send to their family in the Philippines, it will never be enough.

...did she marry you in order to get here and work to earn money for her family? or did she marry you in order to build a family of your own? and which reason weighs more?

[Gilles 4]

I am tossing between handling this one of two ways. She's working part time, making some $1200 to $1500 net per month. When she deposits her money, she puts about half in her checking account and takes about half of it cash back. So I'm beginning to think she didn't borrow the money in question, but took it out of this cash reserve accumulated from her "cash back" when she made deposits.

So I'm thinking about doing one of two things, as she isn't paying a reasonable amount towards our household bills.

1) Set up another account with her bank and as soon as she makes a deposit, immediately transfer it under my control.

2) Tell her she needs to contribute X dollars per months to the household bills (including auto insurance) and if she doesn't, then simply take her off the insurance policy & take away the keys.

Any thoughts?

[Tahoma 2,292]

My thoughts?

You have been putting up with her ####### for over a year, and then whining about it here on VJ.

You are foolishly trying to out-manipulate a master manipulator.

Why haven't you been to counseling yourself so you can find out why you continue to put up with her #######?

I wouldn't put up with her attitude for a nano-second.

Sheesh...

[adiiann 163]

My thoughts?

You have been putting up with her ####### for over a year, and then whining about it here on VJ.

You are foolishly trying to out-manipulate a master manipulator.

Why haven't you been to counseling yourself so you can find out why you continue to put up with her #######?

I wouldn't put up with her attitude for a nano-second.

Sheesh...

I...... agree...

Edited November 8, 2010 by adiiann

[Ann Marie and Leo 9]

My thoughts?

You have been putting up with her ####### for over a year, and then whining about it here on VJ.

You are foolishly trying to out-manipulate a master manipulator.

Why haven't you been to counseling yourself so you can find out why you continue to put up with her #######?

I wouldn't put up with her attitude for a nano-second.

Sheesh...

I think that sums it up quite well