Sending money to your wife's family for hospital expenses

[Gilles 4]

Love is the most important part of the relation....if both of you are transparent of what you earn and what she earn and both of you talks about all the bills to be paid and both of you will talk about how much money left and to be save and will talk about if there is spare then she can sent back home...i think everything will be fine. In our situation we are open in everything especially financially....we don't fight over money we live how much money left after all the bills paid....and we dont send money back to philippines unless its for emergency...emergency means no one can help them but us....if your wife knows that theres no way for both of you to help her family back home then there are many filipina woman out there seeking for love and a long lasting family not just for your money..... (this problem is not happining only to filipina its happend in every race) the most important thing is how you gonna deal with it.

What's really sad is what my wife is doing is not good for other Filipinas who want to marry American men. The more men who hear about Filipina women like my wife, the less the men are going to look to the Philippines for a wife. I imagine that the trickle effect is that my wife's behavior is going to piss off Filipina women.

[Gilles 4]

She doesn't have a delusion that you are a bottomless pit of money. She knows what she is doing is wrong. Nobody knows better than her.

That's why she refuses to see a counsellor. Manipulators refuse to fight fair, they know a professional counsellor is an impartial referee, so they refuse counseling.

The person who is deluded is you. I don't say this to cut you down and insult you. Just being frank. You can't seem to accept that she knows what she is doing is wrong.

If you admit to that, then you have to deal with what that implies about her love for you.

Extremely intelligent professional people have been driven to clinical depression, had their careers ruined, bankruptcy, etc. by run-of-the-mill average IQ unemployed manipulators because the victim "loved" them and ground themselves into dust trying to get their spouse to "see" what they were doing was wrong.

The joke is on them because the manipulator knows all along what they are doing is wrong. They just have no scruples. Having the victim exhaust themselves trying to make them "see" what they already know is wrong is one of the reasons the manipulator has so little respect for their victim.

Manipulators figure if people are going to act that dumb then they deserve what they get.

Of course she does. Willing to absolutely everything except, uh, fix the problem.

A good parasite never kills its host. So of course she's going to keep the relationship "working". Until she finds a better host.

That's stated in a way that does not indicate that you have been to support groups and counselling for this matter under discussion. That's a pretty important qualifier.

A seasoned professional is going to zero in on the incapacity of yours in accepting that she knows what she is doing is wrong.

I have no malice towards you. I hope that never is implied in the things I have said.

If she does know what she's doing is wrong, then she is in complete denial. Just how can I confront this?

I can just off the power, disconnect her cell phone service, take away her car keys, etc. Predictably, she'll then say I'm the bad guy. But if I do all that and she still sticks with me, then what does that say about her quest for a "better host"?

[rlogan 2,036]

If she does know what she's doing is wrong, then she is in complete denial.

Not quite. You are the one in denial. She is denying that what she is doing is wrong, yes. But that strategy is working just fine for her in keeping you frustrated and confused, which is exactly why she's doing it - and you can't seem to accept that she could have such amoral character.

Just how can I confront this?

I can just off the power, disconnect her cell phone service, take away her car keys, etc. Predictably, she'll then say I'm the bad guy. But if I do all that and she still sticks with me, then what does that say about her quest for a "better host"?

I really suggest the book "In Sheep's Clothing" by George Simon. In Chapter 10 he talks about "Redefining the Terms of Engagement". To understand it best you really need to read the whole book, and I had several books under my belt before I read that one.

What all of them recommend is first throwing all of the manipulative people out of your life that you can. For those that absolutely cannot be gotten rid of, then they can be dealt with - but its more like dealing with a machine than a person, and you need to be prepared for lifetime committment to this exhausting battle.

I can't do the whole chapter here but one of the things I see you doing that Dr. Simon says not to do is "Avoid Fighting Losing Battles". You are not going to get her to admit that what she is doing is wrong. Let me quote it:

whenever we persist in fighting a battle we can't possibly win, a sense of powerlessness and hopelessness ensues that eventually ends in depression. The "losing battle" that manipulation victims often fight is trying to make the manipulator change. They get caught in the trap of constantly trying to figure out just what to say or do to get their manipulator to behave differently."

That's exactly what you are doing, from beginning to end with these threads.

There's a bunch of stuff in that chapter, but one of them is that yes - the machine understands choices it is given, if you can enforce the choices you put in front of the machine. You try to make them win-win situations so that the machine chooses those.

But you are still putting the cart before the horse here because by far the main point of the chapter and all of the literature on this is to put your energy into where the power is - in your own behavior:

It's hard for some people to accept the notion that they must take on the burden of changing their own behavior in order to improve their relationship with a manipulator.

It took me a while, and people told me - there must be something wrong with you that you have this problem with manipulators in your life. Wow, were they right.

The problem was ME. I kept saying THEM THEM THEM. How can I change THEM. What can I do about THEM.

Well, the only thing you can change is yourself. You can't change them. It is counter-intuitive maybe that if you have a problem with a manipulator then there is something wrong with you.

Normal people avoid nasty people. That's why this is so simple to them. You dump her and get a decent woman. But no, you insist on living with Frankenstein.

Frankenstein is not going through a phase. Sure, she might stick with you. But she'll still be Frankenstein. If she leaves you she'll be Frankenstein with them too.

You have to give up this futile belief that she is going through a phase and that you can change her. That's what is wrong with you.

[Tahoma 2,291]

^^^ Amen, Brother Robert!!!

[bigdude 2]

I just read this post from beginning to end and I LOVE IT. Gilles, I feel for you brother. You are in a crappy sitaution with no easy solution. She will not change her ways and you know it. She will continue to put her family in the Ph. before you. All I can say is good luck.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

It took me a while, and people told me - there must be something wrong with you that you have this problem with manipulators in your life. Wow, were they right.

The problem was ME. I kept saying THEM THEM THEM. How can I change THEM. What can I do about THEM.

Well, the only thing you can change is yourself. You can't change them. It is counter-intuitive maybe that if you have a problem with a manipulator then there is something wrong with you.

Normal people avoid nasty people. That's why this is so simple to them. You dump her and get a decent woman. But no, you insist on living with Frankenstein.

Frankenstein is not going through a phase. Sure, she might stick with you. But she'll still be Frankenstein. If she leaves you she'll be Frankenstein with them too.

You have to give up this futile belief that she is going through a phase and that you can change her. That's what is wrong with you.

Yep to that, I had a friend who seemed to always be getting screwed over by her friends and I really didn't understand that as she seemed like such a nice person.

Then one day I realized that she was trying to work her way in between myself and my daughters, to convince us that our family relationship was broken and she could fix us as a family. Then I looked closely at her current husband whom I only just recently really gotten to know [as she had kept us at arms length by convincing me that he was horrible and I didn't want to know him].

Suddenly I was asking all of the wrong questions of her and now I was trying to screw her over!

It turned out that she was creating the chaos in her life and burning every friendship she ever had. This caused me to re-evaluate my friendships and I let a lot of people drift out of my life in the following year.

I'm an advocate of giving someone a chance, it's possible they just don't realize what they're doing. Surely there has to be a limit to that though and if it becomes clear that they are unwilling to accept that they are wronging you then why are you going to hang around and let it continue.

[piglett 16]

I myself have always felt that the new year is a great time to pack up all of the stuff that belongs to your crazy self serving not capable of love wench from hell & deposit them on the front lawn!!!

once you do this i would also change the locks & if you really want to put the cherry on top get a big can of the kind of fluid that you would use to start your BBQ grill & dump every drop on the crazy wench from hell's stuff.

the final step is to light the pile & roast some marshmellows

I hope everyone has a great & productive new year

piglett

PS: if the fire department shows up make sure you have plenty of extra marshmellows & roasting sticks on hand

Edited December 31, 2010 by piglett

[Gilles 4]

Update: It's now been a year since my wife started working part time (making about $1000 net per month). During this time, she did contribute about 75% of the groceries and paid one bill (less than $100/month) for about 4 months. I cut her some slack during the last few months, as she was going to school to increase her earning potential. But during that time, she insisted that I use our bill paying money to send funds to her family in the Philippines. When I refused, she went ahead and sent money but lied to me about where she got the money. Now that she is on the verge of working full time, one day she says she wants the first $5000 to $10000 she earns from her new job to build a house for her family in the Philippines and the next day she says for me to not worry about our finances, as she'll contribute to our budget. I have informed her that I will determine how much she gives from each paycheck and she gets furious. So I've started taking away some of her privileges to let her know I'm serious.

But more importantly, her two year green card expires in a couple months and I've told her if she's not contributing to our budget in a reasonable manner, then I will not sign the papers for the conditions to be removed so she can get a 10 year card. Just what happens if I don't sign/submit the form for doing that?

[~happyndinlove~ 540]

Update: It's now been a year since my wife started working part time (making about $1000 net per month). During this time, she did contribute about 75% of the groceries and paid one bill (less than $100/month) for about 4 months. I cut her some slack during the last few months, as she was going to school to increase her earning potential. But during that time, she insisted that I use our bill paying money to send funds to her family in the Philippines. When I refused, she went ahead and sent money but lied to me about where she got the money. Now that she is on the verge of working full time, one day she says she wants the first $5000 to $10000 she earns from her new job to build a house for her family in the Philippines and the next day she says for me to not worry about our finances, as she'll contribute to our budget. I have informed her that I will determine how much she gives from each paycheck and she gets furious. So I've started taking away some of her privileges to let her know I'm serious.

But more importantly, her two year green card expires in a couple months and I've told her if she's not contributing to our budget in a reasonable manner, then I will not sign the papers for the conditions to be removed so she can get a 10 year card. Just what happens if I don't sign/submit the form for doing that?

and and

I'm so bewildered that I'm just laughing while reviewing your post.

I have so many (sarcastic) responses playing in my mind right now. So many that I can't pick which 1 to write. I'm frozen.

(but) Like I stated (in an earlier post) ...the more you post...the more you show your desire / obsession to control.

Pause for a moment and think.... What must it be like, to be on the recieving end, of these tactics..? (and) What type of person resorts to these control methods?

(I'm not excusing your wifes' behavior...I'm just so baffled by yours)

Your Q?

Dude...if your wife gets wise... she can remove the conditions without you. How? 1st step...she divorces you. (but) If she files while your still married and you don't sign...she's got problems.

Edited March 15, 2011 by ~happyndinlove~

[Tahoma 2,291]

Because I love my wife, I'm hopeful that she'll overcome this stage and she'll understand that what she's doing is wrong.

Update:...her two year green card expires in a couple months and I've told her if she's not contributing to our budget in a reasonable manner, then I will not sign the papers for the conditions to be removed so she can get a 10 year card.

^^^ Love .......Gilles-style!!!

I see that you are still desperately trying to manipulate the manipulator. Why am I not surprised. Same sh*t...different day/year.

By the way, she doesn't need you in order to get her 10-year Green Card. She can divorce you and file to remove conditions on her own.

[Kevin- 13]

Gilles. You're both wrong. She's not being reasonable, and you're handling it in a very poor manner. She might be acting passive-aggressive and is being manipulative. You're certainly acting passive-aggressive (although maybe not so passive) and being manipulative. Trying to hold the green card over her head is borderline psychological abuse in my opinion.

I don't remember all the things you posted before, and don't want to reread them at this time. But your current actions are definitely worse than hers, on a scale of morality. According to your own words.

[rlogan 2,036]

But more importantly, her two year green card expires in a couple months and I've told her if she's not contributing to our budget in a reasonable manner, then I will not sign the papers for the conditions to be removed so she can get a 10 year card. Just what happens if I don't sign/submit the form for doing that?

The "Effects of Major Family Changes" page is where all relevant questions can be answered.

The upshot is that she can apply on her own for the 10-year green card if the two of you divorce, so "nothing" happens insofar as her right to the removal of conditions regardless of whether you apply for her or not. I put "nothing" in quotes because there's the little matter of divorce.

If you don't apply and just let the date expire but remain married then she's out of status and there will be problems but it isn't like they'd hunt her down and deport her the day after expiration. If she left the country she would not get back in. But why even go there, it's not rational. Either get divorced or apply for the removal of conditions and have a marriage with these ongoing problems. I've ruled out fixing the problem based on how long this has gone on and the strategy you adopted of trying to manipulate the manipulator.

The books say don't try to out-manipulate a manipulator. It's just war with this agonizing over how to respond to the latest iteration of underhanded out-guessing of each other. I'm not going to get all judgemental about it.

It can be evidence of abuse when a person uses immigration as an extortion racket to get what they want from someone. It needs to be in the context of other things, but it is something to be careful about saying give me money or I won't sign.

[Gilles 4]

While some people in here have offered some good advice, what many are forgetting is that I love my wife. After reading many of the responses, I get the impression that many of you view bringing a wife over from the Philippines is more a business arrangement than an act of love between the man & woman. If I didn't love my wife and simply viewed it as a business arrangement, I would have had her sent back to the Philippines well over a year ago.

Do many of the women in here view it as business arrangement or an act of love?

How about the men? Do they view it as a business arrangement or an act of love?

[~happyndinlove~ 540]

While some people in here have offered some good advice, what many are forgetting is that I love my wife. After reading many of the responses, I get the impression that many of you view bringing a wife over from the Philippines is more a business arrangement than an act of love between the man & woman. If I didn't love my wife and simply viewed it as a business arrangement, I would have had her sent back to the Philippines well over a year ago.

Do many of the women in here view it as business arrangement or an act of love?

How about the men? Do they view it as a business arrangement or an act of love?

Everything you just said is nonsense.

Have you been drinking?

[Maxx121 14]

why is this still alive?