Obama Admin Now Pushing Anti-Bullying Agenda

[Danno 1,228]

Danno, while you've got the dictionary out, you should look up 'irony' and 'hypocrite'.

hypocrite???

I absolutely accept different groups of people embrace different views or morals.

Q: DO you respect peoples right to reject the gay life as normal or acceptable?

Q: Do you think less of them?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Here, let school you again.

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eth·no·cen·trism [ èthnō sén trìzzəm ]

noun

Definition:

conviction of own cultural superiority: a belief in or assumption of the superiority of the social or cultural group that a person belongs to ( disapproving )

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Clearly Lefties like you believe you are "more enlightened" on the view of Homosexuality than is the unwashed masses across the globe.... go on, admit it.

You school me? I'm certainly getting a crash course in rank stupidity courtesy of you. Seriously it really is something that has to be seen to be believed. The sad thing is you probably think you are being quite clever. You really arent.

[Gemmie 142]

If you want to talk hypocritical.

There are plenty of gay teens that are bullied each and every day, some more so than others who never commit suicide. Every situation is different. To treat them all the same would be completely dishonest.

Yet you tar every group of people with the same brush. It's OK to say that anyone who kills themselves, no matter the situation, is a coward and deserves to die and that society is better off without them. Why is it not OK to treat all of those people differently? Some people have health issues, others specifically with their mental health, and actually most people that commit suicide aren't doing it for selfish or cowardly reasons, they do it because they believe their death will make it better for their loved ones. Why is it not OK to say that gay teens deal with different issues than straight teens? We're not talking about external aspects like clothes here, we're talking entire identities and lifestyles. Why is it not OK to let people behave as they feel (if they're not hurting anyone) regardless of whether it makes you feel uncomfortable? You make me feel uncomfortable with your extreme opinions, but I would never want to 'weed you out' or prevent your freedom.

If I can accept groups of Muslims, teenagers that dress 'alternatively', extreme sport fanatics, different races of people, females that dress provocatively, pretty much anyone who dresses or presents themselves in the way they want to; what's wrong with accepting "eccentric" gay people?

Edited October 28, 2010 by Gemmie

[Obama 2012 1,714]

If you want to talk hypocritical.

Yet you tar every group of people with the same brush. It's OK to say that anyone who kills themselves, no matter the situation, is a coward and deserves to die and that society is better off without them. Why is it not OK to treat all of those people differently? Some people have health issues, others specifically with their mental health, and actually most people that commit suicide aren't doing it for selfish or cowardly reasons, they do it because they believe their death will make it better for their loved ones. Why is it not OK to say that gay teens deal with different issues than straight teens? We're not talking about external aspects like clothes here, we're talking entire identities and lifestyles. Why is it not OK to let people behave as they feel (if they're not hurting anyone) regardless of whether it makes you feel uncomfortable? You make me feel uncomfortable with your extreme opinions, but I would never want to 'weed you out' or prevent your freedom.

If I can accept groups of Muslims, teenagers that dress 'alternatively', extreme sport fanatics, different races of people, females that dress provocatively, pretty much anyone who dresses or presents themselves in the way they want to; what's wrong with accepting "eccentric" gay people?

So suicide = eccentric?

If you think I have a problem with 'gay' people and the way certain people dress, you need to go re-read everything I wrote in this thread.

As far as suicide and reasons for, it's always a cowardice/easy way out. Life isn't easy. Life isn't all roses and chocolate. It's a difficult thing. Even a person who is given anything and everything in life doesn't necessarily have it easy. Life is a struggle and it's how each individual is built mentally that helps them deal with it. Many make it through just fine and a few don't. My only point is those few are better off killing themselves than being some other drag on society. Obviously they aren't stable. Sure, there's a variety of reasons they might kill themselves, but the only 'acceptable' reason to kill oneself ever is in extreme medical peril, which has nothing to do with mentality at all.

[The_Dude 1,142]

I dont' think many people can understand the weight a gay teen has to carry, especially if they dont' have supportive friends and family. If you've got your family, friends, and then society and even your own government telling you that you're a lesser citizen, I think it's quite a burden.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I dont' think many people can understand the weight a gay teen has to carry, especially if they dont' have supportive friends and family. If you've got your family, friends, and then society and even your own government telling you that you're a lesser citizen, I think it's quite a burden.

This is why it was such a big deal in that councilman's speech when he said that he's here today because his parents loved him. It was a very big part of the message. In my honest opinion, mistreating a child of your own mentally because of their sexuality should fall under child abuse statutes.

[Gemmie 142]

So suicide = eccentric?

No, I didn't say anything about that connection, I'm pointing out how you're open to both people and situations being different in each case, and then saying that all suicidal people are better off dead.

As far as suicide and reasons for, it's always a cowardice/easy way out. Life isn't easy. Life isn't all roses and chocolate. It's a difficult thing. Even a person who is given anything and everything in life doesn't necessarily have it easy. Life is a struggle and it's how each individual is built mentally that helps them deal with it. Many make it through just fine and a few don't. My only point is those few are better off killing themselves than being some other drag on society. Obviously they aren't stable. Sure, there's a variety of reasons they might kill themselves, but the only 'acceptable' reason to kill oneself ever is in extreme medical peril, which has nothing to do with mentality at all.

I think everyone here understands that life isn't easy and that everyone has to go through struggles. For some reason though, only a certain percentage will say that suicidal people deserve to die. I don't understand why you think that those that aren't dealing well with those stresses are a burden on society. You obviously know nothing about mental illness if you think that being depressed means you're 'unstable' in society, OR that suffering physical illness has nothing to do with mentality either. There are some people that deal with terminal illness by grabbing life by the horns and living every breath they have, and there are others that feel so crushed that they don't want to carry on any more. Is that different, just because there's a medical reason behind it?

This is why it was such a big deal in that councilman's speech when he said that he's here today because his parents loved him. It was a very big part of the message. In my honest opinion, mistreating a child of your own mentally because of their sexuality should fall under child abuse statutes.

I agree that it is disgusting to treat your child in a negative way because of their sexuality. And I do think that acceptance from parents and social support is a HUGE part in what makes the difference between being open and suffering in silence. I saw a show the other day that featured specialists that deal solely with gay teens that go through exorcisms, and the counselor said it happens on average once every two weeks. How many gay teens have been brought up with a religion that means being gay results in an eternity in He1l? I can't imagine how it must feel to live with that, and I feel for those teens.

BUT how can you say all of that, and then claim that if that teen feels suicidal and wants out of that future of everyone shunning him/her, being condemned to He1L, that he/she deserves to die? That is what I don't understand. Given some counselling to help with accepting their sexuality and dealing with everyone around them, being taught that there is nothing wrong with being gay... THAT is what will turn their life around and being that killing themselves isn't the answer. In my opinion, condemning them to death because they can't change their mentality instantly and deal with it is not that different than condemning them to He1l because they can't change their sexuality.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I think everyone here understands that life isn't easy and that everyone has to go through struggles. For some reason though, only a certain percentage will say that suicidal people deserve to die. I don't understand why you think that those that aren't dealing well with those stresses are a burden on society. You obviously know nothing about mental illness if you think that being depressed means you're 'unstable' in society, OR that suffering physical illness has nothing to do with mentality either. There are some people that deal with terminal illness by grabbing life by the horns and living every breath they have, and there are others that feel so crushed that they don't want to carry on any more. Is that different, just because there's a medical reason behind it?

Terminal illness doesn't mean you can't function. I'm more referring to those who are confined to a bed during the last part of their life or for the rest of their life. They cannot live and ultiamtely are stuck relying on everyone else for anything and everything.

I know plenty of 'mental illness' in what society defines as such. Most things aren't an 'illness' so much as they are a controllable situation. Depression is as much as state of mind as addiction is. They're both easily overcome with strong will power. Some people aren't strong is what it really boils down to.

BUT how can you say all of that, and then claim that if that teen feels suicidal and wants out of that future of everyone shunning him/her, being condemned to He1L, that he/she deserves to die? That is what I don't understand. Given some counselling to help with accepting their sexuality and dealing with everyone around them, being taught that there is nothing wrong with being gay... THAT is what will turn their life around and being that killing themselves isn't the answer. In my opinion, condemning them to death because they can't change their mentality instantly and deal with it is not that different than condemning them to He1l because they can't change their sexuality.

In this world today, unless you're Amish or live in some third-world country, there's always someone to turn to. With the internet at your finger tips, with so many in the same situation, and even someone as simple as school counselors who ask children how their lives are at home, there's plenty of people to learn from and realize that who you are is who you are. As I said a minute ago, will power is a big part of everything. Granted, I would stand firm on the notion that it's not depression that causes the suicides among gay teens so much as it is confusion. Confusion about how to deal with the world and those close to them. There again though, this is a select few who go through this that result in suicide and the vast majority live on and learn...

[The_Dude 1,142]

Here is Arkansas School Board Member Clint McCance complaining about a school organizing support for gay teens in the aftermath of several suicides by gay teens.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Here is Arkansas School Board Member Clint McCance complaining about a school organizing support for gay teens in the aftermath of several suicides by gay teens.

this guy needs to get thrown off that school board real fast.....

[Gemmie 142]

Terminal illness doesn't mean you can't function. I'm more referring to those who are confined to a bed during the last part of their life or for the rest of their life. They cannot live and ultiamtely are stuck relying on everyone else for anything and everything.

It's funny that you have these rules for when you think suicide is justified. So do you think it's fine for suicide when they're at the point of bed confinement, but not before? What about people that find out they WILL be in that position in a matter of weeks, do they have the right to commit suicide, because it's a medical reason; or are they still cowards at that point because they aren't yet to a point that you deem desperate enough? What about people that are suddenly paralyzed and instantly need to rely on everyone for everything? Do they get a pass? What about women that are beaten by their partners and told that if they reach out to anyone, they'll be killed? If any of these people feel trapped and alone to the point of preferring death, they should all be offered help, not be seen as burdens on society that need to die.

I know plenty of 'mental illness' in what society defines as such. Most things aren't an 'illness' so much as they are a controllable situation. Depression is as much as state of mind as addiction is. They're both easily overcome with strong will power. Some people aren't strong is what it really boils down to.

Then why don't you go and let all those medical professionals know that they're wrong, it doesn't matter how much data they have that depression and addictions have neurological basis, or that there are chemical imbalances, or that people physically feel pain during their emotional crisis. Let the psychiatrists know that their entire careers are built on lies because there are no need for prescription medicine for people facing mental illness (everything from depression to psychosis) and addiction. Have you ever even met someone with either clinical depression or an addiction? Most of the time, depression is caused by a series of life events, not just a switch in the mind that someone decides to press one day. Please stop talking about something you know nothing about. You have as much knowledge in the subject as I do about construction. I wouldn't go telling people that their designs are complete nonsense or that 'society doesn't need' certain types of buildings.

In this world today, unless you're Amish or live in some third-world country, there's always someone to turn to. With the internet at your finger tips, with so many in the same situation, and even someone as simple as school counselors who ask children how their lives are at home, there's plenty of people to learn from and realize that who you are is who you are. As I said a minute ago, will power is a big part of everything. Granted, I would stand firm on the notion that it's not depression that causes the suicides among gay teens so much as it is confusion. Confusion about how to deal with the world and those close to them. There again though, this is a select few who go through this that result in suicide and the vast majority live on and learn...

You're kidding right? How many times have you turned on the news, heck even came on HERE, and seen prejudice against different types of people. Whether it's about being black, being gay, being an immigrant, having an abortion, losing a child (yes I know a few people personally that have lost children and were shocked at how little support there is out there), whether it's about something that was inevitable or choices that were made... people are judged for everything they do. Yes of course there is support out there, but there is also a lot of negative attention.

If I were 16 years old and realizing that I was gay, knowing that my social network would reject me, that my religion told me that I was condemned to burn in He1l, that I was going to live the rest of my life feeling isolated, that the media portrayed homosexuality in a negative light... at that point, even if my parents accepted me, I would feel downright afraid. I'm not saying I would be suicidal; but I would be in a lot of emotional turmoil until the time came where I accepted that this was going to be okay in the end. When you're a teenager, the whole world isn't as you see it as an adult. You think in the present and you're still figuring out your identity and relationships. You only need to listen to the stories of gay people (men in particular) that tell of the complete isolation you feel going through that, and how it's not until you develop into an adult that you grow mature and strong enough to deal with it. I personally know an eight year old girl who has bi-polar and she's stated a few times that she wishes she was dead. She doesn't yet have the development and knowledge and support needed to help her, does she deserve to die? Because teenagers are still not adults.

And before you give the "lots of people are gay and don't kill themselves", of course. But teenage suicide is incredibly high, sometimes people never know the reason (how do we even know the percentage of teens that commit suicide because of sexuality)? To say that they should be like the majority and basically move on with life shows a level of ignorance and lack of empathy. Technically, most pregnancies result in a healthy child but what about the percentage that end in miscarriage, stillbirth, or with development issues; do they not matter because the majority are fine?

Personally, I like knowing that the people that struggle with their sexuality are getting the help that they need, because individuals matter.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Gemmie

[Gemmie 142]

Wow, that FB post is f****d up. Great Christian values.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Wow, that FB post is f****d up. Great Christian values.

It's really scary the sort of fringe lunatics that get onto statewide boards like school board.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Then why don't you go and let all those medical professionals know that they're wrong, it doesn't matter how much data they have that depression and addictions have neurological basis, or that there are chemical imbalances, or that people physically feel pain during their emotional crisis. Let the psychiatrists know that their entire careers are built on lies because there are no need for prescription medicine for people facing mental illness (everything from depression to psychosis) and addiction. Have you ever even met someone with either clinical depression or an addiction? Most of the time, depression is caused by a series of life events, not just a switch in the mind that someone decides to press one day. Please stop talking about something you know nothing about. You have as much knowledge in the subject as I do about construction. I wouldn't go telling people that their designs are complete nonsense or that 'society doesn't need' certain types of buildings.

Sorry, this is where you're wrong. Human behavior and nature are my specialty. Outside of a few people in the psychiatric field, most doctors are very 'text book' and treat so many issues as one in the same. Hell, kids get treated the worst out of any and all patients. The psychiatric world today is a useless field that would rather prescribe meds for anything and everything, then actually do proper listening/counseling. Even psychologists tend to be very textbook on many issues, but at least they cannot prescribe medications to help 'fight' something and instead work with you on that mental level than some medical fix.

Depression is a state of mind, not a mental illness, just as addiction is a state of mind. They are easily mistaken for some sort of illness, but at the end of the day it's all about control. Some people do have an easier time controlling things than others, but that doesn't make for an excuse at the end of the day if someone is willing to be better/different.

You're right in saying that teenage minds are a bit different, but even this is varies and depends on the teenager. When I was 12, I was going on 25 mentally. A big difference from a lot of my peers. Some were on par with me, others were 'kids' and some even were younger for that age. Everyone develops in their own way. The way you are raised and the surroundings you are raised in play a small roll depending on the individual as well. I know plenty of kids who grew up dirt poor, with bad parents, who know have masters degrees in their fields. At the same time, I knew kids who grew up with a loving family, everything they needed, and they are still working at your local grocery store or fast food chain. No one person is the same when it comes to mental development, but there are plenty of similarities that can help you tell how successful one might be in life. Again it comes down to that strength of will though.

Is it fair to say someone who commits suicide deserves to die? Perhaps not, but we live in a world with billions of people. I'm not going to cry over spilled milk. If a few people die, it's not a big deal and ultimately. 2,000 teens a year committing suicide is a big deal to those close to them, sure, but to the rest of society, they ultimately do not matter. Just as if you or I were to be gone tomorrow, the rest of the world wouldn't blind an eye. It's how things are. We are a spec of dust. Nothing more and nothing less.

Personally, I like knowing that the people that struggle with their sexuality are getting the help that they need, because individuals matter.

Individuals might matter to you. Most people might even say out loud that individuals matter, but at the end of the day they really don't. It's why we have 'collective' laws. As absurd as many of them might be, they are to keep the 'herd' in check. They aren't there to protect individuals. They are there for the group.

[Gemmie 142]

Just because you were a people spotter at a young age doesn't mean that human behaviour is your specialty. I was the same myself, always very mature and intelligent for my age, always had a high emotional IQ, always had the intuition when it came to other people. I went on to get a psych degree, work in psych research, and have been offered a job as a Mental Health Specialist at the top rated psych hospital in the country, so whilst I'm no psychiatrist and have never claimed to be, I think I'm qualified to know something about mental illness. I've also been through a lot of things in my life and have never contemplated suicide, but that doesn't mean it's some trophy to hold up to everyone around me as some standard. Just because *I* can handle things a certain way doesn't mean other people can, but I'm not going to judge them for it and condemn them to some dark hole, as you have. And that is what I don't understand, how you can say that "every one is different, their backgrounds and mentality are different, BUT they should have to just get over their problems, the way I and the majority of people do". If you fancy yourself to be some expert on how people behave and why, then you should have no problem having empathy with them, and not judging them on the way they handle things.

You keep simply repeating that depression isn't an illness, but a state of mind. There is a difference between feeling stressing, feeling down, and actually having clinical depression. The ones that are low enough to take their own lives fall in the last category and as I said, it has a neurological basis, which makes it an illness. I've known people that have suffered from chemical depression (that appears to come from nothing in particular, no life event), and in those cases medication helps the symptoms to disappear as it basically increases the serotonin present in the brain. You'll also find that anxiety disorders and addictions have similar neurological foundations and changes, and that's why they're considered illnesses. What professionals aren't clear on, is whether the chemical imbalance causes the symptoms, or whether the depressive symptoms cause the change in chemicals. But either way, it's very much an illness that is physically there in the brain. And while I agree with you that a lot of psychiatry is based on medication (especially in the US), it's ignorant to lump the entire psychiatric world as one, as they actually all work together. Psychiatrists prescribe medication to help with the chemical imbalances, psychologists and therapists help with teaching new coping mechanisms, support groups help them reach out to others in a similar place, and so on. I don't know exactly how it works over here, but if I were to go to a GP in the UK and tell him I had depressive symptoms, he wouldn't simply give me some pills. He'd also refer me to a counselor or psychologist.

People can have all the willpower in the world, and still not have everything that it takes for them to overcome their problem. In the case of being gay, you need self-awareness, a great support system, and the mental/emotional capability to handle the 'acceptance' of it. It's not just about will-power.

And about your 'individuals don't matter, collectives do', I'm not under some illusion that the country will be crushed by my death. I know that. But seeing as I have the basic emotions of empathy and understanding, I do care for individual people. And by helping individuals, you actually help the collective as a whole because you get the chance to raise awareness and create more support systems.