Married in June Under VWP

[Myopia 93]

Congrats.

I'm ticked off a little as we went through the "official" process and are still in it. #######. Seems unfair to me.

You know it really ticks me off to read some of these replies.

They went through the official process too. Their bank account can attest to that. I am sorry that you feel irritated that others adjust faster than you.

The fact of the matter is that in spite of the fact that some district offices are denying the adjustment there are many that are adjusting.

Just do a thread search on here. I have read ONE thread about a visa denial based on this new policy in SOME offices. That doesn't mean that all will be denied and the notion that there is an impending decision that will deny ALL VWP adjusters is reckless if its based on conjecture rather than fact. Presenting that conjecture as if it is fact is unfair to those who come here for advise.

The fact is there are NO solid numbers. We know that in Houston they have been dismissing a higher number of cases than in previous months but I am yet to see any articles that state that an abnormally high number of VWP adjusters are being denied and deported.

The ironic thing is the two most recent cases that I can find that denied adjustment specifically due to the fact that you cant appeal deportation if you are on a VWP was in the seventh circuit which is the very district that they were adjusted in!

Talk about mixed messages.

Anyways congrats again and may you go on to live a fruitful life in your country of choice.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

You know it really ticks me off to read some of these replies.

They went through the official process too. Their bank account can attest to that. I am sorry that you feel irritated that others adjust faster than you.

No they didn't. The OP states they "decided" to get married under the VWP. It wasn' the first visit, their post implies it was a conscious decision to re-enter on the VWP, and AOS whilst there. This is visa fraud. It's not supposed to work that way, but the door is open for people who "just happen" to get married. This couple deliberately jumped the line. It was a conscious thought.

I understand other people get pissy about it. I do sometimes but then I also think that I was able to save LOTS of money while I worked in Aus while the K1 was processing. I didn't enjoy being apart from my fiance but I did what had to be done.

This door will be shut eventually I'm sure, because of all the people "jumping the line"... people will start using this way rather than the proper, legal method of applying for a fiance/spousal visa and soon that will be the ONLY option. After all, it's not gunna kill someone to go home and do it the legal way, soon you'll need a waiver as to why you didn't do it that way. I say "soon" but what I mean is years from now. Bank on it.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[R&V 8]

You know it really ticks me off to read some of these replies.

They went through the official process too. Their bank account can attest to that. I am sorry that you feel irritated that others adjust faster than you.

If you want to talk cold hard $$-numbers, I win. K1 Visa costs cash, too, you know. And I pay AOS fees as well.

I said it before in this thread, I did not want to derail it. I said congratulations and wished them well. Don't know what else you want.

There will always be differences in opinion.

[Myopia 93]

No they didn't. The OP states they "decided" to get married under the VWP. It wasn' the first visit, their post implies it was a conscious decision to re-enter on the VWP, and AOS whilst there. This is visa fraud. It's not supposed to work that way, but the door is open for people who "just happen" to get married. This couple deliberately jumped the line. It was a conscious thought.

I understand other people get pissy about it. I do sometimes but then I also think that I was able to save LOTS of money while I worked in Aus while the K1 was processing. I didn't enjoy being apart from my fiance but I did what had to be done.

This door will be shut eventually I'm sure, because of all the people "jumping the line"... people will start using this way rather than the proper, legal method of applying for a fiance/spousal visa and soon that will be the ONLY option. After all, it's not gunna kill someone to go home and do it the legal way, soon you'll need a waiver as to why you didn't do it that way. I say "soon" but what I mean is years from now. Bank on it.

Well they did actually. I know its hard to understand what a spontaneous decision can be for those of us who like to stick to rigidity in our lives but it really is possible to meet someone and decide on the spur of the moment to get married. When you are really in love with someone its hard to be away from them and if these people choose to adjust in a way that the US allows then where is the fraud?

I find that a very reckless statement to make.

@R&V I wasn't suggesting that you didn't incur any costs.I wasn't referring to your post specifically. I apologize if you felt that I was.

Thanks.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Well they did actually. I know its hard to understand what a spontaneous decision can be for those of us who like to stick to rigidity in our lives but it really is possible to meet someone and decide on the spur of the moment to get married. When you are really in love with someone its hard to be away from them and if these people choose to adjust in a way that the US allows then where is the fraud?

I find that a very reckless statement to make.

@R&V I wasn't suggesting that you didn't incur any costs.I wasn't referring to your post specifically. I apologize if you felt that I was.

Thanks.

The ability for an immediate relative of a US citizen to adjust status while in the US, and without getting an immigrant visa, is an exception in the immigration law. There are a myriad of reasons for providing this exception, but USCIS policy has always been clear that it's not intended to be an alternative to the immigrant visa process. Department of State has a statutory role to play in immigration, and this approach completely removes them from the loop.

The intention of the exception was to provide a way for someone to adjust status when otherwise forcing them to apply for an immigrant visa was pointlessly bureaucratic. For example, it would be a little silly if someone was in the US on a two year student visa, and USCIS forced them to return to their home country to interview for a spousal visa. Department of state has already screened them for admission, so there's no sense sending them back for another visa interview.

It's always been the position of USCIS that using a visitor's visa to intentionally circumvent the immigrant visa process was an abuse of this exception. Prior to some precedent BIA cases, USCIS (then INS) would routinely deny AOS if they suspected preconceived intent. Those BIA cases established that the preconceived intent, on it's own, was not serious enough to warrant denying the AOS.

It's also always been the position of USCIS that using the VWP to intentionally circumvent the immigrant visa process was a more serious and flagrant abuse of this exception. Someone who enters using the VWP skips the visa process entirely. The VWP specifically disallows the alien visitor to adjust status, but the exception for an immediate relative still exists.

As far as conjecture about new policies being put into practice at USCIS field offices, have a look at this immigration attorney's blog in San Diego:

http://www.visalawyerblog.com/2010/08/visa_waiver_overstay_and_marri.html

According to him, he saw the memo sent to the IO's at the San Diego office. It said:

To all Adjudicators effective immediately, any immigrants that have entered to the US under the Visa Waiver program and failed to file for adjustment of Status before the expiration of the 90 days authorized stay, MUST BE denied at the time of the interview.

There is ample evidence this is going on in other districts, as well. Whether we agree with it or not is irrelevant. There is a real risk to adjusting status based on marriage after a VWP entry. Whether someone's decision to marry was spontaneous or not, it's hard to make the argument that it's needlessly bureaucratic to ask someone to apply for an immigrant visa when that person has never actually applied for a visa of any kind before. Rubber stamping AOS applications for VWP entrants would also be grossly unfair to the US citizens who have a spouse or fiancee from a country that is not included in the VWP program.

[Myopia 93]

The ability for an immediate relative of a US citizen to adjust status while in the US, and without getting an immigrant visa, is an exception in the immigration law. There are a myriad of reasons for providing this exception, but USCIS policy has always been clear that it's not intended to be an alternative to the immigrant visa process. Department of State has a statutory role to play in immigration, and this approach completely removes them from the loop.

The intention of the exception was to provide a way for someone to adjust status when otherwise forcing them to apply for an immigrant visa was pointlessly bureaucratic. For example, it would be a little silly if someone was in the US on a two year student visa, and USCIS forced them to return to their home country to interview for a spousal visa. Department of state has already screened them for admission, so there's no sense sending them back for another visa interview.

It's always been the position of USCIS that using a visitor's visa to intentionally circumvent the immigrant visa process was an abuse of this exception. Prior to some precedent BIA cases, USCIS (then INS) would routinely deny AOS if they suspected preconceived intent. Those BIA cases established that the preconceived intent, on it's own, was not serious enough to warrant denying the AOS.

It's also always been the position of USCIS that using the VWP to intentionally circumvent the immigrant visa process was a more serious and flagrant abuse of this exception. Someone who enters using the VWP skips the visa process entirely. The VWP specifically disallows the alien visitor to adjust status, but the exception for an immediate relative still exists.

As far as conjecture about new policies being put into practice at USCIS field offices, have a look at this immigration attorney's blog in San Diego:

http://www.visalawyerblog.com/2010/08/visa_waiver_overstay_and_marri.html

According to him, he saw the memo sent to the IO's at the San Diego office. It said:

To all Adjudicators effective immediately, any immigrants that have entered to the US under the Visa Waiver program and failed to file for adjustment of Status before the expiration of the 90 days authorized stay, MUST BE denied at the time of the interview.

There is ample evidence this is going on in other districts, as well. Whether we agree with it or not is irrelevant. There is a real risk to adjusting status based on marriage after a VWP entry. Whether someone's decision to marry was spontaneous or not, it's hard to make the argument that it's needlessly bureaucratic to ask someone to apply for an immigrant visa when that person has never actually applied for a visa of any kind before. Rubber stamping AOS applications for VWP entrants would also be grossly unfair to the US citizens who have a spouse or fiancee from a country that is not included in the VWP program.

I read the blog that you cited a while ago and understood what he was speaking about.I refer you to the AILA round up(which you have probably read already.I believe that they have a good handle on the issues as it stands at this time.

AILA Blog

It would be conjecture to infer that EVERY new VWP who tries to adjust will be denied. Other than that one blog and the few anecdotes online you can't really find anything solid that states that there is a new policy nationwide imminent other than what was told to one poster from one office. Meanwhile others are and have been able to adjust. Some in, what I would consider, record breaking time! So if there is an imminent memo then I'm assuming not all the offices have got it yet!

As I said the poster adjusted in the seventh circuit right? The VERY same circuit that has handed down the same ruling. So it isnt uniform and I do think its scaremongering to people who really dont have any real alternative at this point. Well I take that back. There is an alternative. Leave the US, incur the ban and fight to be returned by filing the waiver etc. Great alternative.

I did say in another comment that some offices were not adjudicating the AOS. That's clear. It is also clear that some offices are. We know that because we have first hand testimony of posters that have stated as such. It is also a fact (Based on posters testimony again) that some cases are being held as pending. Knowing that there are clearly three different scenarios at this time for those who try to adjust after the 90 day period is half the battle for anyone wishing to adjust at this point. The other half is actually filing and seeing which way the wind blows.

Obviously this is not the ideal situation. It would make more sense to actually file from the home country and go through the long (and for some) drawn out process that is RFE, Denials, Waivers, AP and all the other myriad of circumstances that could delay one spouse joining another but while there is the ability to adjust within the US. I believe that it is a good thing as long as there is not intent. I don't believe that anyone should call anyone else a visa fraudster because they didn't take the same path and the truth is, as has been mentioned, that there is always the chance that the AOS will be denied.

Last night I listened to one of the oral arguments from Bayo Vs Napolitano. The lawyer was quite perturbed that those who file for AOS under the VWP were able to adjust and those like her client who was caught was unable to do the same. So she understood that there was a difference in how each was treated.

Oral Argument

and I honestly thought that the entire petition was a stretch yet STILL he did get to have his case heard in front of a judge. All of the recent cases related to the VWP have been tricky ones. One man had his entire family come over on VWP and wanted to adjust to an employment visa, another came on the fraudulent passport and so on and so forth. None of them were clear cut and all the courts did was reinforce what was already known. That being when it comes to VWP Adjustments the Immigration Officers decision is final. What is new with that finding? It has always been that way. Its been happening for years.

Just out of curiosity...where is the ample evidence that this is happening at many other districts too? Other than anecdotal comments here on Visajourney. I have tried to look for some but I don't seem to be able to find it anywhere.

I do understand that for those who have filed for their spouses and gone through the process in that way will feel some dissension towards those who came on ANY KIND of Visa and were able to adjust because, let's face it,it does seem on the surface unfair but when you look at the situations that do happen..I think it is a smart and reasonable policy.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Myopia

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

The ironic thing is the two most recent cases that I can find that denied adjustment specifically due to the fact that you cant appeal deportation if you are on a VWP was in the seventh circuit which is the very district that they were adjusted in!

Talk about mixed messages.

I think the difference here is that they filed AOS while still within the 90 days of VWP. The no appeal thing is for once they're a VWP Overstayer they are then immediately deportable and USCIS doesn't have to consider the AOS Application.

[JadeRn 6]

No they didn't. The OP states they "decided" to get married under the VWP. It wasn' the first visit, their post implies it was a conscious decision to re-enter on the VWP, and AOS whilst there. This is visa fraud. It's not supposed to work that way, but the door is open for people who "just happen" to get married. This couple deliberately jumped the line. It was a conscious thought.

I understand other people get pissy about it. I do sometimes but then I also think that I was able to save LOTS of money while I worked in Aus while the K1 was processing. I didn't enjoy being apart from my fiance but I did what had to be done.

This door will be shut eventually I'm sure, because of all the people "jumping the line"... people will start using this way rather than the proper, legal method of applying for a fiance/spousal visa and soon that will be the ONLY option. After all, it's not gunna kill someone to go home and do it the legal way, soon you'll need a waiver as to why you didn't do it that way. I say "soon" but what I mean is years from now. Bank on it.

Whoa whoa whoa.....

Hold it right there!! That is beyond offensive. First off, how do you know what we did and what our intent was, correction you DON'T and you DIDN'T. Therefore you have no right to interject and say what we did. We decided to get married a month after he was here because we were in love, we had nothing planned, nothing "traditional" about our marriage. The "jumping the line" thing, it's not my problem which route you chose to take in your journey, but certainly you have NO RIGHT to pass judgement on me nor my husband. And you certainly can not say I have not been paying the money or the stress in doing it this way. We had filing fees just as you, we had appointments just as you, you have no right whatsoever to pass any kind of judgement. This is a legal way of doing it, OBVIOUSLY, because we were immediately approved with no questions asked. If a marriage is legit and you love someone they have no reason to seperate a family.

Just because you did things differently than me, you shouldn't throw a temper tantrum about it. I went through the OFFICIAL process for the way we adjusted his AOS. Sorry if you don't like our decision and sorry if you don't like your own either.

I've been sitting here reading all of these negative posts most of you have to say about our process, instead of being happy for people you just try to bring people down, minus the few with nice comments to say, and I appreciate them all.

Sorry about your luck to the people that are "offended" by the way we did things, and "VanessandTony" thanks for consulting your crystal ball back in June and foreseen this coming, because we certainly didn't.

[JadeRn 6]

And on that note, I made this post to give a postive feedback to someone who did things this route. Just like we did, we researched on these forums and many others after we got married to see what were the options avaliable to us.

What is honestly with the negativity, it is so unwarranted. We came here to share our story just to give people an idea that things do happen quickly in some instances and the people that work in our local office aren't complete jerks like some of the horror stories I have read on here.

No one wants to come to a forums and only read negative posts and judgmental points of view. Be happy for people and move on, no need to be complete ______ about it, because really it only makes you look foolish and I don't appreciate any negativity because I did not come here to be "trolled" by people who don't know me, my husband, or my situation.

Instead of being happy for people, cough "VanessaandTony" seems like you only like to drag people down.

Never, EVER, would I post something that would call someone a freaking "fraud" are you kidding me? Who the heck do you think you are? Obviously you have had a bad experience that you feel the need to drag me down, I'd suggest some local couch treatment to deal with your negative feelings. Remember; Envy is one of the seven deadly sins, and certainly you sound jealous and like a jerk- so if the shoe fits wear it.

If anyone has anything positive to say please do so, don't use my thread as a legal discussion to dispute the decision given BY THE US GOVERNMENT to approve my husband's AOS.

Edited October 26, 2010 by JadeRn

[JadeRn 6]

And on that note, I made this post to give a postive feedback to someone who did things this route. Just like we did, we researched on these forums and many others after we got married to see what were the options avaliable to us.

What is honestly with the negativity, it is so unwarranted. We came here to share our story just to give people an idea that things do happen quickly in some instances and the people that work in our local office aren't complete jerks like some of the horror stories I have read on here.

No one wants to come to a forums and only read negative posts and judgmental points of view. Be happy for people and move on, no need to be complete ______ about it, because really it only makes you look foolish and I don't appreciate any negativity because I did not come here to be "trolled" by people who don't know me, my husband, or my situation.

Instead of being happy for people, cough "VanessaandTony" seems like you only like to drag people down.

Never, EVER, would I post something that would call someone a freaking "fraud" are you kidding me? Who the heck do you think you are? Obviously you have had a bad experience that you feel the need to drag me down, I'd suggest some local couch treatment to deal with your negative feelings. Remember; Envy is one of the seven deadly sins, and certainly you sound jealous and like a jerk- so if the shoe fits wear it.

If anyone has anything positive to say please do so, don't use my thread as a legal discussion to dispute the decision given BY THE US GOVERNMENT to approve my husband's AOS.

And finally, we contacted the USCIS 1-800 after we got married while he was on the VWP and that was the advice they gave us to do, what forms to fill out, and even a list of local offices to do the IME. So really, do some research before talking trash about something you obviously don't know about. And not only did I speak to the 1-800 once but multiple times, and each time we spoke to a supervisor type of rank of person, and each time s/he told us what to do.

Ugh..... as you can tell im frustrated by most of this, but at the end of day, if it wasn't legal, we wouldn't have been approved in an interview that lasted approx 60 seconds where all we were asked to do was show our passports, asked if we had a criminal background, and where we live.

Thanks and have a GREAT life "VanessaandTony"

Edited October 26, 2010 by JadeRn

[VanessaTony 3,567]

And finally, we contacted the USCIS 1-800 after we got married while he was on the VWP and that was the advice they gave us to do, what forms to fill out, and even a list of local offices to do the IME. So really, do some research before talking trash about something you obviously don't know about. And not only did I speak to the 1-800 once but multiple times, and each time we spoke to a supervisor type of rank of person, and each time s/he told us what to do.

Ugh..... as you can tell im frustrated by most of this, but at the end of day, if it wasn't legal, we wouldn't have been approved in an interview that lasted approx 60 seconds where all we were asked to do was show our passports, asked if we had a criminal background, and where we live.

Thanks and have a GREAT life "VanessaandTony"

lol. You have some serious issues. I said your post IMPLIED you did it that way. A simple correction would have been fine. Wow. You obviously have some serious guilt or psychological issues if you needed to post and re-post. Good luck to you and your hubby, I think you both need it.

Just for evidence (not that I really need it but for the sake of argument):

My husband and I met last year online. We met up initially this March and enjoyed each other's company more than originally expected. He went home after 90 days and came back, we then decided to get married while he was under the VWP. He is from the UK and I live in the midwest.

I apologise if my restating what you wrote offended you so much.

** moved from "AOS (Other) Process & Procedures" to "AOS (Other) Filing & Progress" as this is not a qn but an update on a case **

Edited October 27, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[JadeRn 6]

Well obviously you are using my one lobe zingers since you are using my psychological eval that i suggested for yourself. Back to my statement yes he was here on his VWp and we got married never once was it our inrention nor didi say it was.

Anyway you've been trolled

I'll take that as a compliment that you are using my insults back at me. Jealous much? You've proven yourself as so in both of your posts!!'. Flattering sweetie

[JadeRn 6]

On my phone one line zingers that's supposed to say

[Myopia 93]

And on that note, I made this post to give a postive feedback to someone who did things this route. Just like we did, we researched on these forums and many others after we got married to see what were the options avaliable to us.

What is honestly with the negativity, it is so unwarranted. We came here to share our story just to give people an idea that things do happen quickly in some instances and the people that work in our local office aren't complete jerks like some of the horror stories I have read on here.

No one wants to come to a forums and only read negative posts and judgmental points of view. Be happy for people and move on, no need to be complete ______ about it, because really it only makes you look foolish and I don't appreciate any negativity because I did not come here to be "trolled" by people who don't know me, my husband, or my situation.

Instead of being happy for people, cough "VanessaandTony" seems like you only like to drag people down.

Never, EVER, would I post something that would call someone a freaking "fraud" are you kidding me? Who the heck do you think you are? Obviously you have had a bad experience that you feel the need to drag me down, I'd suggest some local couch treatment to deal with your negative feelings. Remember; Envy is one of the seven deadly sins, and certainly you sound jealous and like a jerk- so if the shoe fits wear it.

If anyone has anything positive to say please do so, don't use my thread as a legal discussion to dispute the decision given BY THE US GOVERNMENT to approve my husband's AOS.

Good for you! A 60 second interview? Thats amazing. Which office did you adjust in?

I love these stories as there really arent enough of them on here. The nay sayers and scaremongers really get up my nose with the woe betide you comments at times bar a few that just want you know whats up.

I am happy for you. I mean that.

[JadeRn 6]

Good for you! A 60 second interview? Thats amazing. Which office did you adjust in?

I love these stories as there really arent enough of them on here. The nay sayers and scaremongers really get up my nose with the woe betide you comments at times bar a few that just want you know whats up.

I am happy for you. I mean that.

HI myopia and thank you so much. Yes literally the walk to the office was longer than the interview it seemed like it was 60 seconds but it my have been 2 or 3 minutes lol. It was an office in Chicago, very friendly lady.