Family and Religion

[Calypso 464]

I don't think anyone is going to think we're talking about Indonesians.

My family and I were in India last February for the specific purpose of doing a puja for my late father. It was something my extended family in India was very keen on doing and being his eldest son it was my job to do it. I am sure you know how that works. My initial response was to resist. I said I don't have time. Work is busy. Blah blah. But then my mom tells me she wants to do it. I was a little surprised but she seemed to really want it, seemed to really believe 'bad things' could happen if we didn't. Then my sister tells me we should do it too, for mom. So I did it. It was no big deal, spend a bunch of money and hire the right pandit and catering staff and stuff just gets taken care of. You know how it is. And yet, after it was done, my mom expresses a sense of relief that it all went smoothly and said she feels like a weight has been lifted. I honestly didn't understand and still don't. What could possibly have gone wrong? Doing a puja is really just a matter of handing out money to people. What could possibly go wrong? Yet, so many people acted as if it going so smoothly was some kind of message from God. I felt a little slighted, it went smoothly because I freakin' paid for it. Religious people can be so dumb.

Puja talks remind me of the wife of my husband's friend. The couple grew up in India but they now live in LA. She was so excited to show me pictures of her sister-in-law's puja for the latter's new house in New Hampshire. They invited 200 people for that. Seriously? The same wife also shared some pictures where her husband had to run over an orange on the road with his new car for another puja.

[^_^ 5,021]

200 is small. Seriously.

[Calypso 464]

Why? What does it buy you?

It makes Santa Claus grant my Christmas wish each year. Duh...

Young children have no capacity to understand religious belief, but everyone needs to learn morality unless they do not intend to live with other people. It is perfectly possible to teach even very young children about 'right' and 'wrong' based on principals of fairness and equality.

But why is it important that they have a religion at two or five years old? This is what I will never understand. If it's about morals and the appropriate way to behave, you can teach them that.

"Learning morality" is a different issue. My point is that I am around people who have strong religious beliefs, friends and relatives alike. I am trying to look for ideas on how to have my children know and believe in God even in the absence (if that's possible) of religion. I don't want them to look clueless at four when older people outside the family say "let us bow our heads and pray" during gatherings.

This is the most important thing to teach kids (and our own selves). Keep this in front at all times. Religion can come secondary as a kid grows in his faith and reason.

Blessings,

Bishop

Precisely, Bishop.

[chri'stina 190]

Because most of my dads family is back there and they wanted to be part of it. Yeah, work is busy and I missed out on valuable VJ and Facebook time but that's ok.

Yeah I don't know how you survived!

I also find the whole ceremony things weird, and a waste of money especially since I did not grow up Hindu in India or around Indians. The requirements and burdens put on so many different people to do this and that ritual, which usually includes spending money, seems overwhelming to me.

Since your family is Hindu, just traditionally or currently practicing, and you weren't totally opposed, I think it was a good gesture of you to do that for your family.(talking about the puja for your father) Though it would have been nice if they had given more acknowledgment to the fact you paid for everything and that made it go smoothly.

Edited October 23, 2010 by chri'stina

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Are you talking about Griha Pravesh? I had no idea there was a ritual involved there. I thought it was just inviting people over and feeding them.

In my mum's eyes, ritual involved (and, as i stated perplexing given that I could fill that requirement of "boiling milk"--as i understood it--by simply making a cup of hot coffee/tea/cocoa with milk, and then drinking it--which is something I would have done anyway).

It can be argued that many Christians (cent-percent of desi as well as considerable of gora) do a version of it, "dedicating" the home (invite some, including pastor, to pray in the house)

The most retarded puja I've ever heard of is Car Puja.

Careful on that--as most desi Christians (including myself and Pras) consider it correct to "dedicate" a newly-purchased car (basically take it to the pastor and have him/her pray over it); not sure if any gora Christians do so. Edited October 23, 2010 by Saddle Bronc

[chri'stina 190]

Careful on that--as most desi Christians (including myself and Pras) consider it correct to "dedicate" a newly-purchased car (basically take it to the pastor and have him/her pray over it); not sure if any gora Christians do so.

I have never really heard of any Christians I know doing that, so maybe it's cultural.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

I have never really heard of any Christians I know doing that, so maybe it's cultural.

Also possible that this one-off dedication is not what AJ was thinking of--as during certain festivals Hindus are known to doll-up vehicles (any type--car/lorry/bus/...) including with flower-garlands and do some rituals (repeated at least yearly during the service-life of the vehicle )

[Nina~ 431]

In my mum's eyes, ritual involved (and, as i stated perplexing given that I could fill that requirement of "boiling milk"--as i understood it--by simply making a cup of hot coffee/tea/cocoa with milk, and then drinking it--which is something I would have done anyway).

It can be argued that many Christians (cent-percent of desi as well as considerable of gora) do a version of it, "dedicating" the home (invite some, including pastor, to pray in the house)

Careful on that--as most desi Christians (including myself and Pras) consider it correct to "dedicate" a newly-purchased car (basically take it to the pastor and have him/her pray over it); not sure if any gora Christians do so.

My parents, mostly my mom, do some of these crazy stuff too. They don't do that car dedication thing because someone from their church vandalized their car once. So they keep a low profile at church especially when buying a big ticket items. My mom too believes in the whole boiling milk at the new place stuff. She insisted that it had to be done at my new place and she couldn't really explain why it had to be done.. so we argued and settled for a cup of coffee and piece of cake. However, I have a sneaky feeling that she zapped some creamer in the microwave

I think a lot of Indian Christians do borrow a lot of traditional/cultural stuff from Hindus. I remember my family having "prayer meetings" a week or so after a family member's funeral. The whole "prayer meeting at home" is probably a Indian Christian equivalent of pujas. Personally, I am not a big fan of ritualistic religion, so I avoid stuff like this like the plague. My family has also slowly learned not to invite me.

[SuperDuper! 230]

Don't worry, Hinduism is very difficult to believe unless someone is 'exposed' to it 24/7 and from a very young age.

Just WHAT aren't you an expert in? THAT will be the topic I will post about.

[Peikko 1,575]

And as an adult, you can deal with it. Can a five year old deal with it? Will he or she understand that the reason other children his or her age 'hang out' and he doesn't is because his parents are rational and non-superstitious? Frankly, I don't see a problem socializing and being part of the 'community' aspects of organized religion. My distaste for religion is not so strong and my personal confidence in my beliefs is not so weak as to be threatened by that. And if in the process my non-existent child enjoys some time around others doing fun things then so be it. It beats staying home and watching TV.

No, nor do I some of the time but it's not nearly so easy to be involved in the community aspects without being expected to conform to the aspects that have zero appeal or relevance as you make out; after all and quite properly, the central role of organized religion is religion, or at least that is my experience. Bear in mind that I haven't always been an 'outsider' and I know just how 'welcoming' religious people can be if one doesn't pretend to believe in god and I am well past the point of going along with some pretense at believing this stuff just to 'fit in'. I don't want to have to deal with any of the religious part of organized religion. Also, why is it so wrong to want to belong to a community organization that has no affiliation with belief?

[Peikko 1,575]

It makes Santa Claus grant my Christmas wish each year. Duh...

"Learning morality" is a different issue. My point is that I am around people who have strong religious beliefs, friends and relatives alike. I am trying to look for ideas on how to have my children know and believe in God even in the absence (if that's possible) of religion. I don't want them to look clueless at four when older people outside the family say "let us bow our heads and pray" during gatherings.

Precisely, Bishop.

Most four year olds look and act clueless in these situations. A four year old is not capable of understanding the point of it. If a kid is well behaved it will not embarrass you in these situations, and if it is not, it will. That is true regardless of whether they are brought up around religious folks or not. I have been to many a church service where young children muck about until they are let go to Sunday school where they can wreak the appropriate havoc while others sit quietly. It's the same sort of thing as wishing one's child to behave appropriately in any social situation, be it restaurant, shop or wherever. If they are taught how to behave they mostly will.

[^_^ 5,021]

Also possible that this one-off dedication is not what AJ was thinking of--as during certain festivals Hindus are known to doll-up vehicles (any type--car/lorry/bus/...) including with flower-garlands and do some rituals (repeated at least yearly during the service-life of the vehicle )

I was thinking of the puja for Vishwakarma, for a new car. Or am I getting my rituals mixed up?

..., why is it so wrong to want to belong to a community organization that has no affiliation with belief?

Who said it's wrong?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It is more important they learn to shoot. I teach them that. Then they will never have to play golf.

[^_^ 5,021]

I see classes offered at my workplace called "Golf: An essential business skill". Never shooting.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I see classes offered at my workplace called "Golf: An essential business skill". Never shooting.

It's a secret. You think they are REALLY going to tell you how to get to the top?