The Occupation of Western Sahara

[oldahmed 38]

Western Sahara was always Moroccan,and will be always,at a time countries are reunited to become more strong,some peaple are still calling for a 100 persons independance, this is soo funny.it`s all about greed and the problem was not Morocco, the problem was Spain, france and all those who invaded africa at a time, torn it and turn it into pieces to control it.if we were left as we were we wouldnt be like this,we would have gone far with the "great almaghrib" but the west never want that happen.Western sahara is a problem created by Spain to continue its domination.

it`s bad that Algerian leaders are supporting and causing this problem, while all of her leaders during the resistence were getting help from Morocco,and living in Morocco, and even some have studied in Morocco.

if the peaple were left to their choices, Morocco and algeria , tunisia, lybia,egypt, mouritania would be one country without borders.

The leader of Polisario was studying in Marrakesh having a Moroccan schoolarship .

How is "Algeria supporting and causing the problem"?

[rachbel 2]

How is "Algeria supporting and causing the problem"?

Here is a simple good answer that show how Algeria support and caus the problem.this the feedback of a moroccan prisonner in Sahara.i just found it by chance on the net .

"My Name is Ali Najab, I am a ex-Moroccan Fighter Pilot who spent 25 years in Tindouf in Algeria as a prisoner of War.

Question: Is Algeria directly involved in Sahara Conflict or not? The answer is YES indeed!!!!!Otherwise Algeria and those who support its policy should answer these Questions:

1-Why did Boumedienne send his 4 battalions to the Sahara in November 1975even before the Moroccan troops got there.The whole world knows that 106 Algerian soldiers were taken prisoner of war in Amgala in the middle of the Western Sahara in January 1976.

2-The Moroccan prisoners were always questioned by Algerian Officer. It was the case of myself: as soon as I arrived in Tindouf 4 Algerian Officers took me to the Algerian Head Quarters in Tindouf where I spent 55 days being many times tortured.

3-The Moroccan prisoner were held in Algeria.So Algeria was the main responsible for the torture and inhuman treatments We went through during a quarter of century:

-We were forced to do hard works.

-they made us to live in Holes without shilters under the summer hot sun and the very cold winter without any blankets.

-We were forced to give our own blood to the enemy hospitals.

-We were denied adequate food or medical care.

- we were forced to read propaganda in their radio against our country.Any time we refused we were tortured and put in cells for months.Some of us died in their cells.

-At any escape attempt Algerian helicopters were to search for us and when we were re-captured we were automatically tortured and put in cells until death.

- Any time they present us to the Press if our answers did not please either the Algerians or the polisario we were severely punished( torture and cell)

We have buried ourselves 46 of our fellow countrymen who mostly died under torture.

We have mentioned to the International Red Cross (ICRC) when they visited us in 1994 (3 years after the sease-fire) that about 56 articles of the Geneva third Convention were violated by both Algeria and polisario.

If Algeria pretends that She is not taking part in the Conflict why the algerian second desk had taken 476 moroccan prisoners to the north of Algeria ( Blida, boufarik, Boughar) near Algiers. 150 of them were exchanged against 106 algerian prisoners the rest was sent back to the polisario in 1994.

Why Moroccan prisoners were held 13 years after the ceasefire which is a violation of the Geneva Convention which stipulate that prisoners of war must be released immediately after the ceasefire.

According to the article number 1 of the UN convention about torture,there was not a day in which Moroccan POWs were not tortured.

Finally, I'll tell this to Messieurs Halim and Mourad who probably are Algerians:

In 1884 when Spain started colonizing the south of Morocco, was the Sahara( which was not called Western Sahara by the way!)terra nillus? the answer is of course NO.

So at that time which country was a Power or State in the region capable of governing these populations?

Was it Algeria? Algeria did not exist at that time. Was it Mauritania? It did not exist at time. Was it Mali? Mali did not exist at that time. The Only Country which was organized as a State was MOROCCO. It's enough for today!

[oldahmed 38]

Here is a simple good answer that show how Algeria support and caus the problem.this the feedback of a moroccan prisonner in Sahara.i just found it by chance on the net .

"My Name is Ali Najab, I am a ex-Moroccan Fighter Pilot who spent 25 years in Tindouf in Algeria as a prisoner of War.

Question: Is Algeria directly involved in Sahara Conflict or not? The answer is YES indeed!!!!!Otherwise Algeria and those who support its policy should answer these Questions:

1-Why did Boumedienne send his 4 battalions to the Sahara in November 1975even before the Moroccan troops got there.The whole world knows that 106 Algerian soldiers were taken prisoner of war in Amgala in the middle of the Western Sahara in January 1976.

2-The Moroccan prisoners were always questioned by Algerian Officer. It was the case of myself: as soon as I arrived in Tindouf 4 Algerian Officers took me to the Algerian Head Quarters in Tindouf where I spent 55 days being many times tortured.

3-The Moroccan prisoner were held in Algeria.So Algeria was the main responsible for the torture and inhuman treatments We went through during a quarter of century:

-We were forced to do hard works.

-they made us to live in Holes without shilters under the summer hot sun and the very cold winter without any blankets.

-We were forced to give our own blood to the enemy hospitals.

-We were denied adequate food or medical care.

- we were forced to read propaganda in their radio against our country.Any time we refused we were tortured and put in cells for months.Some of us died in their cells.

-At any escape attempt Algerian helicopters were to search for us and when we were re-captured we were automatically tortured and put in cells until death.

- Any time they present us to the Press if our answers did not please either the Algerians or the polisario we were severely punished( torture and cell)

We have buried ourselves 46 of our fellow countrymen who mostly died under torture.

We have mentioned to the International Red Cross (ICRC) when they visited us in 1994 (3 years after the sease-fire) that about 56 articles of the Geneva third Convention were violated by both Algeria and polisario.

If Algeria pretends that She is not taking part in the Conflict why the algerian second desk had taken 476 moroccan prisoners to the north of Algeria ( Blida, boufarik, Boughar) near Algiers. 150 of them were exchanged against 106 algerian prisoners the rest was sent back to the polisario in 1994.

Why Moroccan prisoners were held 13 years after the ceasefire which is a violation of the Geneva Convention which stipulate that prisoners of war must be released immediately after the ceasefire.

According to the article number 1 of the UN convention about torture,there was not a day in which Moroccan POWs were not tortured.

Finally, I'll tell this to Messieurs Halim and Mourad who probably are Algerians:

In 1884 when Spain started colonizing the south of Morocco, was the Sahara( which was not called Western Sahara by the way!)terra nillus? the answer is of course NO.

So at that time which country was a Power or State in the region capable of governing these populations?

Was it Algeria? Algeria did not exist at that time. Was it Mauritania? It did not exist at time. Was it Mali? Mali did not exist at that time. The Only Country which was organized as a State was MOROCCO. It's enough for today!

So according to you, the proof is the word of a Moroccan pilot (an ignorant one who thinks that in 1884 Algeria did not exist)? Still I don't see clearly from what you just posted how Algeria is the cause of the problem.

In Morocco, you are taught that the reason the conflict between Morocco and the Sahara is not solved is because of external forces, namely Algeria, but the real reason is that Morocco does not want to abide by the international rules. Algeria doesn't hold its own unique position about this issue, Algeria supports the U.N. resolutions.

In your previous post you said "if we let people chose." That's exactly the position of Algeria; a referendum, but Morocco has been delaying it.

When Spain withdrew from the Sahara, it's Morocco and Mauritania who attacked it not Algeria. Algeria found itself with thousands of Sahrawi refugees after the brutal oppression by the King's Army.

Please, if you want to post anything, try to list neutral sources, not the usual Moroccan propaganda that always blame everything on Algeria.

[rachbel 2]

So according to you, the proof is the word of a Moroccan pilot (an ignorant one who thinks that in 1884 Algeria did not exist)? Still I don't see clearly from what you just posted how Algeria is the cause of the problem.

In Morocco, you are taught that the reason the conflict between Morocco and the Sahara is not solved is because of external forces, namely Algeria, but the real reason is that Morocco does not want to abide by the international rules. Algeria doesn't hold its own unique position about this issue, Algeria supports the U.N. resolutions.

In your previous post you said "if we let people chose." That's exactly the position of Algeria; a referendum, but Morocco has been delaying it.

When Spain withdrew from the Sahara, it's Morocco and Mauritania who attacked it not Algeria. Algeria found itself with thousands of Sahrawi refugees after the brutal oppression by the King's Army.

Please, if you want to post anything, try to list neutral sources, not the usual Moroccan propaganda that always blame everything on Algeria.

First when you want to post never say somebody is "Ignorant",you must either be not familiar with the area or talking with more emotions . you should give respect to a soldier whose duty is to defend his country. The whole north Africa including Algeria was under the OTTOMAN AUTHORITY, EXCEPT MOROCCO,WAS RECOGNIZED AS A STATE and never submitted to the OTTOMAN authority..then comes the french occupation i think 1830.

Am not here to discuss political issues,am not qualified for that and you do not seems qualified either,i`ve nothing against Algerienn ppl, i`ve so many very good friends and i lived with them,and my uncle is ALGERIENNE,they love Moroccans , and we love them.

there is no neutral source in Politic, do you have any neutral source? how and since when?are you kidding me? the only thing i knew and the world knows and confirm is that before 1860 Sahara was not an empty wasted land. and that Morocco was the only recognized state governing it in North africa.

[oldahmed 38]

First when you want to post never say somebody is "Ignorant",you must either be not familiar with the area or talking with more emotions . you should give respect to a soldier whose duty is to defend his country. The whole north Africa including Algeria was under the OTTOMAN AUTHORITY, EXCEPT MOROCCO,WAS RECOGNIZED AS A STATE and never submitted to the OTTOMAN authority..then comes the french occupation i think 1830.

Am not here to discuss political issues,am not qualified for that and you do not seems qualified either,i`ve nothing against Algerienn ppl, i`ve so many very good friends and i lived with them,and my uncle is ALGERIENNE,they love Moroccans , and we love them.

there is no neutral source in Politic, do you have any neutral source? how and since when?are you kidding me? the only thing i knew and the world knows and confirm is that before 1860 Sahara was not an empty wasted land. and that Morocco was the only recognized state governing it in North africa.

A person who believes Algeria did not exist in 1884 is ignorant. Sorry, I thought you were here to discuss politics. I thought the whole issue is a political one.

[rachbel 2]

A person who believes Algeria did not exist in 1884 is ignorant. Sorry, I thought you were here to discuss politics. I thought the whole issue is a political one.

I assume you didnt understand my post.nobody said Algeria didnt exist as a land ,you need to put any statement within its political,social context before calling peaple ignorant.i said Algeria was under the OTTOMAN authority,was governed by OTTOMAN empire.means was not considered a country , it was just a state under the OTTOMAN EMPIRE since 1517, they ruled it for 4 centuries.Morocco was considered a country and could not be invaded by OTTOMAN empire .

i hope i could make it clear.Algeria was part of OTTOMAN EMPIRE.then the french occupation came and Algeria was considered part of Paris. until 1962,after so many sacrifices of the true nationalist of Algeria who gave their lives for Algeria and maybe none remember them.

[oldahmed 38]

I assume you didnt understand my post.nobody said Algeria didnt exist as a land ,you need to put any statement within its political,social context before calling peaple ignorant.i said Algeria was under the OTTOMAN authority,was governed by OTTOMAN empire.means was not considered a country , it was just a state under the OTTOMAN EMPIRE since 1517, they ruled it for 4 centuries.Morocco was considered a country and could not be invaded by OTTOMAN empire .

i hope i could make it clear.Algeria was part of OTTOMAN EMPIRE.then the french occupation came and Algeria was considered part of Paris. until 1962,after so many sacrifices of the true nationalist of Algeria who gave their lives for Algeria and maybe none remember them.

So, according to your logic, when Morocco was under the French protectorate, it was inexistent as a country.

[rachbel 2]

So, according to your logic, when Morocco was under the French protectorate, it was inexistent as a country.

Protectorate does not deny a country.Protectorate say it itself, means simply a superior power to PROTECT an independant Country. it`s Not a colony.

Beleive me, if the Moroccans and Algerians were left alone to deal with this issue without the greed of the west, we would be one of the most influencial countries in the world.we have all the sources to complete each other and make a better living, than to create another piece of land to separate us and make more problems for us.the power nowadays is in reuniting not separating. what do you think Polizario will bring to Algeria or Morocco? or to the whole Maghreb? Just trouble and more drama.most who claim themselves to be Sahrawi are poor peaple coming from central africa, to work for few coins, they have no relation to Algeria or Morocco or Sahara ,All sahrawi are in Laayoune their capital,having a perfect life with their Moroccan brothers including most of their leaders.

[rachbel 2]

i just noticed that your name is Ahmed. like me .are you Algerian? north african? nice to meet you, give your brother a vote by clicking on this link

http://wildfireapp.com/website/6/contests/66104/voteable_entries/9878868?ogn=website

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Protectorate does not deny a country.Protectorate say it itself, means simply a superior power to PROTECT an independant Country. it`s Not a colony.

Beleive me, if the Moroccans and Algerians were left alone to deal with this issue without the greed of the west, we would be one of the most influencial countries in the world.we have all the sources to complete each other and make a better living, than to create another piece of land to separate us and make more problems for us.the power nowadays is in reuniting not separating. what do you think Polizario will bring to Algeria or Morocco? or to the whole Maghreb? Just trouble and more drama.most who claim themselves to be Sahrawi are poor peaple coming from central africa, to work for few coins, they have no relation to Algeria or Morocco or Sahara ,All sahrawi are in Laayoune their capital,having a perfect life with their Moroccan brothers including most of their leaders.

What do you even really know about Algeria? Did you know that Algeria was the only arab country to successfully throw out a coloniser? They were at war with France for over a 130 years in which a million algerians died. Morocco avoided that by co operating with the French and the only part of Morocco that fought back against Spain and France was Napalmed ( ABDEL KRIM AND THE WAR OF THE RIFF). There are several ruling families in Morocco and an extreme concentration of wealth and Algeria does not have a king. Its a revolutionary state. You have to really understand that while you think Morocco has some kind of claim to western sahara, they walked down into the land and essentially told the people there that it was now Morocco. Even teachers in Morocco, poor people, all donated money to the western sahara to build roads, schools etc. Moroccans have invested alot in Western Sahara. But if you take a look at the gross human rights violations in Layoune and the fact that the people that are actually native to there have little influence on how their country is governed and that there natural resources are sold off to Europe without any of the money benefitting the natives, its not much different than what we Americans did to the American Indians.

I hardly think that any saharaoui is truly happy with the level of abuse they are dished out on a daily basis. For Gods sake, Morocco does not even allow foreign journalists to report from Western Sahara. There is a media black out there. That hardly sounds fair.

So, according to your logic, when Morocco was under the French protectorate, it was inexistent as a country.

They are two totally different cultures. Algeria has a wealth of history from the byzantines,the Romans, the vandals, berbers, turks,sephardic jews not to mention the imprint the pied noirs left on the country. Algeria has been actively fighting invaders where as Morocco cooperated with them

[rachbel 2]

What do you even really know about Algeria? Did you know that Algeria was the only arab country to successfully throw out a coloniser? They were at war with France for over a 130 years in which a million algerians died. Morocco avoided that by co operating with the French and the only part of Morocco that fought back against Spain and France was Napalmed ( ABDEL KRIM AND THE WAR OF THE RIFF). There are several ruling families in Morocco and an extreme concentration of wealth and Algeria does not have a king. Its a revolutionary state. You have to really understand that while you think Morocco has some kind of claim to western sahara, they walked down into the land and essentially told the people there that it was now Morocco. Even teachers in Morocco, poor people, all donated money to the western sahara to build roads, schools etc. Moroccans have invested alot in Western Sahara. But if you take a look at the gross human rights violations in Layoune and the fact that the people that are actually native to there have little influence on how their country is governed and that there natural resources are sold off to Europe without any of the money benefitting the natives, its not much different than what we Americans did to the American Indians.

I hardly think that any saharaoui is truly happy with the level of abuse they are dished out on a daily basis. For Gods sake, Morocco does not even allow foreign journalists to report from Western Sahara. There is a media black out there. That hardly sounds fair.

They are two totally different cultures. Algeria has a wealth of history from the byzantines,the Romans, the vandals, berbers, turks,sephardic jews not to mention the imprint the pied noirs left on the country. Algeria has been actively fighting invaders where as Morocco cooperated with them

My dear, i love Algeria, and i love Algerians, and everybody knows about the sacrifice they did to get their independenace,and Moroccan did also the same,and tunisians and lybians did the same,nobody deny that,we are all brothers and sisters, and we helped each other.and all the leaders of the resistance were settled in Oujda(Moroccan city by the borders) including the actual president who is bouteflika, do you know that he was Born in Oujda Morocco , maybe you do not know that ? but all Algerians know that.

I came from the place of Abdelkarim alkhatabi and i know his life and history better than you.

You can not know the history of north africa better than me, you may be dreaming,you do not even know that the first country to recognize the independance of the USA was Morocco.Add it to your notebook.

and to your knowldege i studied the American history for 4 years.

Do not try to create ennemies between Moroccans and Algerians , you`lll not succedd simpply because both are tired of this games.nobody wants another country on the borders.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

My dear, i love Algeria, and i love Algerians, and everybody knows about the sacrifice they did to get their independenace,and Moroccan did also the same,and tunisians and lybians did the same,nobody deny that,we are all brothers and sisters, and we helped each other.and all the leaders of the resistance were settled in Oujda(Moroccan city by the borders) including the actual president who is bouteflika, do you know that he was Born in Oujda Morocco , maybe you do not know that ? but all Algerians know that.

I came from the place of Abdelkarim alkhatabi and i know his life and history better than you.

You can not know the history of north africa better than me, you may be dreaming,you do not even know that the first country to recognize the independance of the USA was Morocco.Add it to your notebook.

and to your knowldege i studied the American history for 4 years.

Do not try to create ennemies between Moroccans and Algerians , you`lll not succedd simpply because both are tired of this games.nobody wants another country on the borders.

First and foremost, until Morocco invaded the Western Sahara, pushing refugees with napalm into Algeria, there was no conflict between the two. The frontier remains shut but Oran remains a center of commerce and there are many illegal Moroccans living in Oran and working in Oran because of the poverty on the frontier. Even though there are no direct connections between the 2 countries, people holding dual nationality bring goods back and forth into Algeria and the people living in the frontier share family ties as well as commerce.

Algeria is spending 400000 dollars a year lobbying the US government. Morocco has spent over 3.5 million dollars over the last couple of years lobbying congress. Algeria is not presently in violation over 100 UN referendums. Morocco is. The US played it smart. When it was time to build a base to over see the hunt for Al qaeda in the magreb, they did not choose Morocco. They chose Tamranasset, Algeria. The US apparently know that Algeria is much more important to us strategically than Morocco.

The reason Algeria and Morocco have been at war is quite simply because of the invasion of western sahara. The US is not on your borders. Your problems is ongoing and its not about personal relations. Its about a 35 year illegal occupation of a sovereign country and the subsequent human rights violations being carried out daily against the people of western sahara. Amnesty International has documented over 50 incidents since Sept 2010 including rape, torture, police brutality and the number of saharaouis still missing are in the hundreds. The EU has called for a stop to any licensing to the moroccan government for licenses involving fishing and phosphates in the western sahara.

[rachbel 2]

First and foremost, until Morocco invaded the Western Sahara, pushing refugees with napalm into Algeria, there was no conflict between the two. The frontier remains shut but Oran remains a center of commerce and there are many illegal Moroccans living in Oran and working in Oran because of the poverty on the frontier. Even though there are no direct connections between the 2 countries, people holding dual nationality bring goods back and forth into Algeria and the people living in the frontier share family ties as well as commerce.

Algeria is spending 400000 dollars a year lobbying the US government. Morocco has spent over 3.5 million dollars over the last couple of years lobbying congress. Algeria is not presently in violation over 100 UN referendums. Morocco is. The US played it smart. When it was time to build a base to over see the hunt for Al qaeda in the magreb, they did not choose Morocco. They chose Tamranasset, Algeria. The US apparently know that Algeria is much more important to us strategically than Morocco.

The reason Algeria and Morocco have been at war is quite simply because of the invasion of western sahara. The US is not on your borders. Your problems is ongoing and its not about personal relations. Its about a 35 year illegal occupation of a sovereign country and the subsequent human rights violations being carried out daily against the people of western sahara. Amnesty International has documented over 50 incidents since Sept 2010 including rape, torture, police brutality and the number of saharaouis still missing are in the hundreds. The EU has called for a stop to any licensing to the moroccan government for licenses involving fishing and phosphates in the western sahara.

Dear , you seem you know nothing , and i do not know from where you bringing these informations, or you just invent them. The Africom base is in Tan tan Morocco. what strategically place are you talking about? Have you located Morocco on the map or never?.

Second.Moroccans and Algerians are in love, for whatever happened before,, we always shake hands and embrace each other,because we shared the past and we share the present and we`ll share the future, either you want it my dear friend or not, it`s our destiny.we`ll always be together especially in the most difficult time.

You`ll need to correct your informations , they are all wrong.

Morocco has been always a very good friend to all the world,we have very good relations with everybody,and we have very wise politicians.Thanks God.

Here is the link that will show you that your informations are completely wrong.

http://cabalamuse.wordpress.com/2008/10/05/africom-base-in-tan-tan-confirmed/

Edited November 3, 2010 by rachbel

[rachbel 2]

AND Finally i want to say that i do not want to discuss a topic that may cause misunderstanding between neigbours on this discussion Board, would be better if you choosed another topic instead of surfing in politics. Polticis is like a swimming pool, everybody swimms in it the way he /she wants.

Good luck to you in your visajourney.Am done with this topic.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Dear , you seem you know nothing , and i do not know from where you bringing these informations, or you just invent them. The Africom base is in Tan tan Morocco. what strategically place are you talking about? Have you located Morocco on the map or never?.

Second.Moroccans and Algerians are in love, for whatever happened before,, we always shake hands and embrace each other,because we shared the past and we share the present and we`ll share the future, either you want it my dear friend or not, it`s our destiny.we`ll always be together especially in the most difficult time.

You`ll need to correct your informations , they are all wrong.

Morocco has been always a very good friend to all the world,we have very good relations with everybody,and we have very wise politicians.Thanks God.

Here is the link that will show you that your informations are completely wrong.

http://cabalamuse.wordpress.com/2008/10/05/africom-base-in-tan-tan-confirmed/

I am talking about the new base in Tamranasset that the US helped build that is a 4 country coalition Mali, Mauritania Algeria and Niger. If you are such great friends, why is Morocco constantly lobbying against Algerian interests and why is the frontier still shut. Maybe people are friends but the governments certainly are not. Morocco has been blaming Algeria for 35 years for the very problem they started by invading the western sahara.

My information is wrong about the invasion of the western sahara or the fact that the US is shifting its military and strategic location to Algeria ( which it did last year.}? Morocco cannot help fight AQIM effectively due to the fact that in no way would the saharaouis cooperate with Morocco being that they themselves are under horrible opression from the Moroccan government. Algeria is a much better place to monitor the growth of groups and they have a much better relation with Niger Mali and Mauritania than Morocco does. Morocco is not part of the sahel and Algeria made sure they were excluded from the joint effort

American supported base in Algeria

Racbel,most Americans know very little about the people of the western sahara or the fact that morocco has been defiant of over 100 UN resolutions to stop torturing and imprisoning saharaouis. Most Americans also do not know that Morocco has been ordered by several countries in the EU to stop selling fishing and phosphate licenses. The Western Sahara is a recognized country by the UN. Morocco had no right to invade it. Morocco spends millions of dollars per year lobbying American lawmakers to prevent the enforcement of UN edicts.

As far as your love story that you say exists, it may exist between individual people but the Moroccan and Algerian governments have been in conflict for 35 years. Ask any Moroccan who was expelled from Algeria and lives in Morocco now as a refugee or a moroccan denied citizenship in Algeria or vice versa if they governments get along. Absolutely not. This all stemmed from the invasion of the western sahara in 1975 and the subsequent abuse,detention and enslavement of saharaouis including silencing the freedom of the press and unlawful detention. If Morocco would now start to repatriate the saharaouis, give them power to govern and control over they resources and let them have some of the profits, most of the problems with Algeria would be solved