The Occupation of Western Sahara

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Not of a high level (Not that I doubt your ability), but at least something that seems from a neutral source, because I've read about the issue a lot, and this is the first time I've heard about the Algerian aspirations to become the new colonial master. What you're presenting here is the usual Moroccan view.

Its there view but it wasnt theirs to begin with was it Old Ahmed and infuriates Morocco to have to give up the gold mine of natural resources to the people of the Western Sahara. If the referendum that they were purposing guaranteed lets say 30 percent of the natural resources proceeds would be held in trust for the people of the Western Sahara, I could see some positives. But they arent proposing anything of that kind. Its shut up,stop fighting for your independence,we will take all your oil, fish and phosphate and you can live under siege like you do now, Saharawis.

Morocco spends millions a year lobbying congress. Algeria spends 400,000. Who do you think is worried about losing?They also have teams up with other countries lobbies including Turkey and Israel.

100 resolutions for a free and independent Sahara. EU Sanctions. And most Americans have no idea what has been perpetrated on the people of the Western Sahara. They know nothing of their story. Only what Moroccan lobbyists or the pr machine tells them through their congress man. Morocco spends millions to silence them. Yet the UN hasnt been silenced and they are in North Africa as we speak trying to hammer out some kind of agreement.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

For starters, I'm still learning about all of this...most of what I know is what I've been told. But how can they have an infastructure & sense of governance as u put it if they haven't had the indepependence to do so? And don't many new or struggling countries "rely heavily on outside countries"?

If the Moroccan government wasnt cutting fishing deals, oil deals and phosphate deals with Europe and taking all their resources and money, they would have the support they needed and the money they needed to self govern...

[Always+Forever 7]

If the Moroccan government wasnt cutting fishing deals, oil deals and phosphate deals with Europe and taking all their resources and money, they would have the support they needed and the money they needed to self govern...

So in other words, leave them alone & let them figure it out themselves?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

So in other words, leave them alone & let them figure it out themselves?

they wont be able to and Morocco has dumped so much money into the Western Sahara to exploit these resources that they will not ever let go.Here is a wonderful article about Aminatou Haidar

Western Sahara Human Rights Defender wins 10th Annual Civil Courage Prize

Aminatou Haidar to be honored for her campaign on behalf of the self-determination of Western Sahara and against government abuses and disappearances of prisoners of conscience

New York, NY — Aminatou Haidar, a Sahrawi human rights defender struggling for the right to self-determination of Western Sahara, will receive the 2009 Civil Courage Prize in New York on October 20. The Prize of $50,000 honors individuals who have demonstrated steadfast resistance to evil at great personal risk.

Ms. Haidar is being recognized for her courageous campaign for self-determination of Western Sahara from its occupation by Morocco and against forced disappearances and abuses of prisoners of conscience. Regularly referred to as the "Sahrawi Gandhi," Ms. Haidar is one of Western Sahara's most prominent human rights defenders.

Once a Spanish colony, Western Sahara has been under strict military control by the Kingdom of Morocco since its invasion in 1975. The region has experienced an extended conflict between Moroccan military and the Sahrawi independence organization, the Polisario Front. In response to the International Court of Justice's rejection of Morocco's claims of sovereignty in the region, the Polisario Front, in 1976, proclaimed the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic (SADR) as Western Sahara's legitimate government.

In 1988, the kingdom of Morocco and the Polisario Front agreed to settle the dispute through a UN-administered referendum that would allow the people of Western Sahara to choose between independence or integration with Morocco. The vote still has not been held. A UN-administered ceasefire has been in place since 1991. In 2007, the United Nations began facilitating peace talks between Morocco and the Polisario Front, but talks have stalled over disagreements, including who qualifies to participate in the potential referendum and whether full independence is an option for Sahrawis.

Ms. Haidar is part of a younger generation of Sahrawi leaders working through non-violent means to organize peaceful demonstrations in support of the referendum and to denounce the human rights abuses on both sides of the conflict. Her peaceful efforts have been met with increased police aggression and brutality. In 1987, at the age of 21, Ms. Haidar was one of 700 peaceful protestors arrested for participating in a rally in support of a referendum. Later she was "disappeared" without charge or trial and held in secret detention centers for four years, where she and 17 other Sahrawi women were tortured. In 2005, the Moroccan police detained and beat her after another peaceful demonstration. She was released after 7 months, thanks to international pressure from groups like Amnesty International and the European Parliament.

Since then Ms. Haidar has traveled the globe to expose the Moroccan military's heavy-handed approach and to plead for the Sahrawi people s right to self determination. Her efforts helped change the Moroccan government's violent tactics for dispersing pro-independence demonstrations. Unfortunately, the torture and harassment of Sahrawi human rights defenders continue behind closed doors.

Commenting on receiving the Civil Courage Prize, Aminatou Haidar said:

"The Sahrawi embrace universal values such as democracy, human rights, religious tolerance, and equality of women, yet our struggle is not very well-known. The Civil Courage Prize represents important recognition of the contribution of just one of many to the Sahrawi people's striving for freedom and independence."

Commenting on Aminatou Haidar's award, John Train, founder of the Prize, said:

"The Civil Courage Prize exists to recognize heroes of conscience like Aminatou Haidar. She is one of many brave people all around the world who resist intimidation, ostracism and pressure, and risk their lives, to promote freedom and justice. They are not soldiers or politicians, but ordinary people with the courage to do extraordinary things. A healthy society relies on civil courage, and we hope that by recognizing it in people like Aminatou Haidar, we can encourage others to follow in her footsteps and defend peacefully their civil rights."

Commenting on the relevance of the 2009 Prize, Suzanne Scholte, president of the Defense Forum Foundation and the nominator of Aminatou Haidar for the award, said:

"Especially at this time in world history, recognizing the efforts of Aminatou Haidar by the Train Foundation sends a wonderful and powerful message of hope to all Muslims and to all women who strive for the right to vote, for equality, for justice through peaceful means."

The Civil Courage Prize has been awarded annually since 2000 by The Train Foundation (formerly known as the Northcote Parkinson Fund). Wall Street Journalist columnist John Fund will speak at the award ceremony.

The 2009 Civil Courage Prize Award Ceremony will be held at the Harold Pratt House, 58 E. 68th St. in New York City, on October 20 from 6:30 pm to 8:30 pm. To attend the event as a member of the media, please contact Barbara Becker at 212-375-0661.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Thousands of families are seperated by a 2000 mile sand wall that is heavily mined

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

So in other words, leave them alone & let them figure it out themselves?

[MrsAmera 41]

I have to argue that were the Polisario and AQIM to pull out of that region Morocco would have no problem letting the Sahrawi's reunite with their families. However opening that border is tantamount to the US opening up the southern border to be infiltrated (moreso) with the drug militia.s

[Always+Forever 7]

my head is spinning...lol

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I have to argue that were the Polisario and AQIM to pull out of that region Morocco would have no problem letting the Sahrawi's reunite with their families. However opening that border is tantamount to the US opening up the southern border to be infiltrated (moreso) with the drug militia.s

How could you compare native people of a country who actually have a higher literacy rate ( 95 percent) and most are sent out of country to Universities to a drug militia from Mexico? How much do you actually know about the Western Sahara other than what you have been told by Moroccans? Saharaouis would be glad to tell you that they are some of the best educated in the Magreb. If they were given back their country, they would be the richest country per person in the magreb and James Baker back in 1994 actually participated in a 3 year count where all saharaouis were documented and papered... They are very educated and very proud to be saharaoui. Where in the world would you get drugs out of that? Morocco has enough pot growing in the riff to keep all of Europe stoned for years... The saharaouis have nothing to do with that

[MrsAmera 41]

Well if you actually read what I wrote you would have read that I wasn't comparing the Sahrawi to the drug militias. I was comparing the Polisario and AQIM to drug militias.

I've also consistently held in this discussion that I feel sorry for the Sahrawi - that they are stuck in the middle of this argument. I've also never said that Morocco's annexation was the best idea, only that independence for the region wouldn't truly be independence and that Algeria or some other forces would make it a puppet.

Also I knew about the Western Sahara loooong before I even knew any Moroccans.

Edited October 21, 2010 by MrsAmera

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I have to argue that were the Polisario and AQIM to pull out of that region Morocco would have no problem letting the Sahrawi's reunite with their families. However opening that border is tantamount to the US opening up the southern border to be infiltrated (moreso) with the drug militia.s

Here is a really nice article about a Saharawi student who was sponsored by Norway. Most Saharawis are afforded the chance to go to school overseas, some actually go to school here in the US sponsored by the UN

Saharaoui University Exchange in Norway

Here is a really neat article about of the Western Sahara Scholars at Davis University

Davis University Scholar from Western Sahara

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Well if you actually read what I wrote you would have read that I wasn't comparing the Sahrawi to the drug militias. I was comparing the Polisario and AQIM to drug militias.

I've also consistently held in this discussion that I feel sorry for the Sahrawi - that they are stuck in the middle of this argument. I've also never said that Morocco's annexation was the best idea, only that independence for the region wouldn't truly be independence and that Algeria or some other forces would make it a puppet.

Also I knew about the Western Sahara loooong before I even knew any Moroccans.

I am glad. I dont think that with all the very literate and well qualified and educated Saharaouis that they shouldnt be given a go at self determination. The problem lies in the fact that the WS is a profitable venture for Morocco and most of the natural resource licenses being sold to to the EU are based out of there.

They were annexed because at that time it was either that or food riots.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I have to argue that were the Polisario and AQIM to pull out of that region Morocco would have no problem letting the Sahrawi's reunite with their families. However opening that border is tantamount to the US opening up the southern border to be infiltrated (moreso) with the drug militia.s

This is a group of people who had Napalm thrown on them at a time when no nation was doing that. They also rained White Phosphorous on them. Only in Gaza has white phosphorous been used more in the last 30 years.

I dont think the polisario is really any threat at this point. Why would Morocco care anyway? If they arent there, then the saharawis can police themselves,govern themselves and manage their lives by themselves much like the 100 UN resolutions have been calling for. Who is afraid of the polisario anyway anymore? They have plenty of resources to support themselves and would do just fine

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

This is a group of people who had Napalm thrown on them at a time when no nation was doing that. They also rained White Phosphorous on them. Only in Gaza has white phosphorous been used more in the last 30 years.

I dont think the polisario is really any threat at this point. Why would Morocco care anyway? If they arent there, then the saharawis can police themselves,govern themselves and manage their lives by themselves much like the 100 UN resolutions have been calling for. Who is afraid of the polisario anyway anymore? They have plenty of resources to support themselves and would do just fine

Algeria Mali Mauritania and Niger just opened a huge command center in Tamranasset with the US's help to fight AQIM. In fact we have sent alot of trainers there and right now actually there is some kind of military exercise going on in the desert with several countries and the US. I think we have a pretty good handle on things there

[rachbel 2]

Morocco did not offer them autonomy. They invaded them. They sent 350000 people on a march and sent settlers in to live much like Israelis did to the Palestinians.

The referendum/autonomy that Morocco is offering the saharaouis is be quiet,we will take your resources, we will not put your leaders in jail, we will hold the beatings of college students and protestors to a minimum. And while we are at it, maybe autonomy will cut into the 3.5 million Morocco has spent lobbying congress to turn their backs on the saharaouis and the over 100 UN resolutions for a free and independent western sahara. How is the polisario more brutal than the Moroccans who threw Napalm on them and imprisoned their leaders, kidnapped members of the leadership and basically made people disappear. In fairness to Morocco, the polisario held Moroccan military hostage for years and years but they in return have missing people and are consistantly subjected to torture and abuse...

Western Sahara was always Moroccan,and will be always,at a time countries are reunited to become more strong,some peaple are still calling for a 100 persons independance, this is soo funny.it`s all about greed and the problem was not Morocco, the problem was Spain, france and all those who invaded africa at a time, torn it and turn it into pieces to control it.if we were left as we were we wouldnt be like this,we would have gone far with the "great almaghrib" but the west never want that happen.Western sahara is a problem created by Spain to continue its domination.

it`s bad that Algerian leaders are supporting and causing this problem, while all of her leaders during the resistence were getting help from Morocco,and living in Morocco, and even some have studied in Morocco.

if the peaple were left to their choices, Morocco and algeria , tunisia, lybia,egypt, mouritania would be one country without borders.

The leader of Polisario was studying in Marrakesh having a Moroccan schoolarship .