America's Poor: Where Poverty Is Rising In America

[Heracles 417]

Well it varies by state, doesn't it?

The best US states (North and South Dakota) are doing almost as well as the best Australian states (Northern and Australian Capital Territories), while the worst US states (California, Nevada, Michigan) are much, much worse than the worst Aussie state (Tasmania)

Yes, it varies by state but the argument that government and welfare makes a country poor, is simply baseless and has been flat-out discredited by numerous countries. The no government view is based on opinions with flimsy evidence, while the other is based on reality and countries actually living it.

I at least acknowledge that governments can excel a place or even be destructive, no different to the management of an organization. So are all organizations and every government [or system] a failure? No, as who and how you operate them, is what counts. People on the right here assume government is bad - end of story; which is simply not true. Libertarians assume no government is the best option, which is absolute lunacy. Without law and order [rules], there is chaos and exploitation.

The only small-government / low taxes country doing well in terms of overall GDP, is the US. However, people here mention individualism constantly; therefore, one must be compared on an individual level. When you look at the average Joe throughout the country, yes outside the 23 sq mile Manhattan area, Americans are not living a high Q.O.L, they are not earning a high salary, and they are not exposed to low levels of poverty or low levels of crime. In fact, the average American worker receives fewer benefits than someone unemployed in AUS.

[웃 910]

Some interesting perspectives on Australia from the comments on the following link:

http://krisbrower.com/9-things-australia-does-better-than-the-usa/

May 1st, 2008 at 9:25 pm

####### said:

I MOVED FROM LAS VEGAS TO AUSTRALIA ABOUT 15 MONTHS AGO ! - AND I’M BORED AS HELL !!!! - I LIVE NOW IN CAIRNS.

THE PEOPLE SMELL LIKE CAMBELL’S SOUP BECAUSE IT’S SO FRIGGIN HUMID !

THE PRICES FOR CARS AND MOTORCYCLES ARE DOUBLE !

FOOD IS 3 TIMES THE PRICE !

A PAIR A SNEAKERS COST $300 SAME PAIR IN THE USA ONLY ABOUT $65

INTERNET IS 10 TIMES SLOWER AND ABOUT $100 DOLLARS A MONTH

TELEPHONE IS LIKE $300 IN THE STATES YOU CAN GET A PLAN THROUGH CABLE FOR ONLY $20 MONTH UNLIMMITED CALLING ANYTIME IN THE USA !

I DON’T THINK I NEED TO GO ON —- DO I ?

AUSTRALIA IS A RIP OFF BECAUSE YOU PAY 3 TIMES WHAT YOU’D PAY IN THE STATES AND MOST TIMES IT IS LOWER QUALITY !

CAIRNS ALSO IS HUMID AS HELL 6 MONTHS OF THE YEAR AND RAINS ALMOST EVERYDAY IN THE WET SEASON WHICH LASTS 3 MONTHS !

IF YOU WANT TO BE BROKE - BORED AND SMELL LIKE BO….. BOOK A FLIGHT TO CAIRNS !

OH DID I MENTION A NEW HOUSE AND LAND IS ABOUT ON AVERAGE $650.000.00 SAME HOUSE IN VEGAS ONLY $275.00

PEACE.

http://krisbrower.com/9-things-australia-does-better-than-the-usa/

January 24th, 2009 at 1:52 am Carlos Silva said:

There are three Australias: 1) Sydney and Melbourne CBD and inner city/ 15 kms from CBD/ world class, 2) other capital cities, and 3) everywhere else. Point 1 is comparable to the best the US or Canada have to offer in terms of cosmopolitan lifestyle and cost of living (think San Francisco, very limited parts of LA, Chicago, NYC, Toronto, and Vancouver). Outside of these areas things fall off rapidly and can easily end up looking like the worst of the US South. At least the US has a huge and varied middle ground which Australia lacks.

I am a Yank, but my 10 year old daughter is a dual citizen. We live in Australia because it has — in our opinion — a better public education system and is just a more level-headed place for a child to grow up in. It costs WAY more than anywhere in the US to live (if you are buying) in a respectable part of Point 1 locations. Factor in the 48.5% tax if you are a highish earner, prohibitively high property costs (a bit less than SFO level), EU fuel prices, nearly double the price for consumer goods of any sort with less variety and poorer quality, and it costs tons of time and money to get out the the country on holiday to anywhere but New Zealand. Additionally, the compensation for white collar work over here is less than it is the in the US but great for other occupations. In general, compensation is comparable to that of Canada vs the US for the same sort of role as are the taxes.

Give me safe clean excellent beaches, excellent public transportation my wife can come home late at night on without being raped and decapitated, and a first world medical system that I can just walk into when I need it just by showing my Medicare card, and I will take the sub-standard material consumption profile and shite telecommunications arrangements. Hell, I will even overlook the fact that I cannot be as well armed as I’d like to be.

Carlos

October 15th, 2009 at 7:22 pm Cat said:

Hi everyone

I am 35, I have lived in Australia for over 20 years, I had lived in US for 3 years and rest in Asia. We are planning moving to California next year under Business Visa. We had many friends and relatives moved there because of better opportunities - I think it is far to say, if you want to set up a Business, and wants to do more than just an employee for life, then US will be a much better place, it is a land of opportunities, esp. for skilled people & motivated people.

Australia is beautiful, I grew up in Sydney, very pretty place. I lived in Adelaide, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth before - I think Sydney, while expensive, does offer more than other cities.

But Australia lacks opportunities, it has very small market, and for some, they can not even find jobs if you are in biomedical (limited), semiconductors (non-existent) or even many IT industries - because Australia is very much, still a commodities based economy. We are an online marketing specialist (multicultural & multilingual), and after 3 years in business, we had very littled Australian clients (less than 10%).

I think it’s incomparable to the lifestyle as they are totally different places, but the reasons we are moving there are:

1. More opportunities and more cities to choose from

2. Closer to everyone (globally), the travel cost is much cheaper in US just because it is closer and more competition

3. Childern will have more choice (in terms of universities) and their universities are generally quite good compared to Australia (top tier vs top tier)

4. I am surprised, that Americans (in cities anyway) are much more globally oriented than Australians

5. No tall-poppy syndrome - Americans look up to successful people as role model, this is one thing I dislike about Australia, they criticize on successful people (like stars, celebrities, even just ordinary business people)

6. Some areas of costs of living are cheaper - groceries, electronics, books, phone bills..education is on par with cities

7. In some places, you can go ski and beach on the same day

8. I play baseball, so that’s of course a plus for me - in fact, there are many successful Aussie Baseball players in US (MLB), but they don’t even get mentioned in Australia! I feel sad about that.

9. In many US schools, you get to learn Spanish as a mandatory course, I think that’s a real bonus as English, Chinese, Spainish are the top 3 languages in the world - nothing wrong to pick up a 2nd languge or 3rd.

10. Yes, rent can be actually cheaper in US (again, depending on cities - u should compare to rent vs your income), as it includes furnitures.

I get very divided opinions when I made my announcement - really, almost 50/50. Just last month, 3 of my friends relocated to US to take positions they could not even think of in Australia - one as a hedge fund manager in NY, one as a semicondutor engineer in US, and one to set up digital agency there.

US actually encourages skilled people to move there (you must have Bachelor Degree), they even offered more quota just for Australians under E3 visa.

I would love to hear from Aussies who are living in South California now to share your experience.

November 30th, 2009 at 9:16 pm sania said:

I moved recently to Australia from US. I have been here for 3 months and want to move to US again. The place really sucks…

Lot more expensive than US…

For food - where I paid like $1 in US , here I have to pay like 3 to 4 $ for the same.

For clothes - where I paid like only 5$-15$ in US here I have to pay around 50$ and that too for less quality.

For Internet - very slow and paying in AUS 50$ for 30GB limit where in US paid only 25$ for unlimited.

For phone - Not even free to me and my husband in AUS…took a plan which has free calls but wil charge 1$ per call after that free call which exhausts immediately in AUS…in US unlimited free calls to same carrier and free on weekends….

I received more hospitiality from US people….Aussies are more serious and more racists…

In US whichever state I go I can take rental car and can roam easily and rental cars are cheaper and can get with more deals….I havent seen such activities here as road are small and cannot enjoy driving(rental cars are more expensive) Even GPS is more expensive and not accurate…

There are more lowpaid jobs in AUS and government benefits are for low income earners only….As a high income earner in AUS, I need to pay 50% as tax and childcare is about 1500$ per month with no allowance ..so I cannot enjoy my earnings here…..

For a good car I paid 10000$ in AUS where I can get for only about 4000$ in US for the same…..

One more thing is the work is very slow in AUS and ofcourse they are relaxed but wastes a lot of time as they are lazy…

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

Well it varies by state, doesn't it?

In the US, the lowest is 3.7% (North Dakota), the highest - 14.4% (Nevada) - (source)

The best US states (North and South Dakota) are doing almost as well as the best Australian states (Northern and Australian Capital Territories), while the worst US states (California, Nevada, Michigan) are much, much worse than the worst Aussie state (Tasmania)

:dance: :dance: :dance:

[Heracles 417]

Obviously you did not read the definitions of poverty that can be used in such articles.

Again you show your housing ignorance.

While we might both agree Mobile homes are not dream housing, they are very often some form of home ownership many people.... where as people in L.A. or Melbourne are simply renting apartments throwing money away every month... but for you what is most important is "What looks better when I drive by".

And another thing, there are a number of VJers who might call "manufactured housing"...their home, it's really not nice when you do your best to make their means seem lower than Dirt.

Tsk Tsk Tsk.

Well no one lives in such homes in AUS. Off topic, I saw a study a few months back, Aussies now build bigger homes than Americans.

These people should not be offended at all, rather they should be paying attention, as what I say directly affects them and is to their benefit. Had I been them, I've had gotten my azz to AUS or Canada years ago. Unless they don't want $80K to $300k salaries, depending on their skills. Heck, work for five years, then come back as a king; with enough money to buy two houses. The American heydays for the average Joe are gone bud, you can thank illegal supporters combined with profit driven organizations for this.

Anyone who votes for the same party and ideology that prefers they have manufactured homes in has-been towns is crazy. If that offends people, then so be it. Once again, had they traveled to equivalent first world countries, they would see this is not the norm - certainly not in AUS. Their equivalents in AUS are living the dream.

[Heracles 417]

.......

Yes these opinion pieces from a blog are nice.

Cairns for starters, is in the tropics. It's a few hundred miles from the closest city.

This might assist your research young skywalker: Human Development Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

Edited October 20, 2010 by Heracles

[Danno 1,228]

Well no one lives in such homes in AUS. Off topic, I saw a study a few months back, Aussies now build bigger homes than Americans.

These people should not be offended at all, rather they should be paying attention, as what I say directly affects them and is to their benefit. Had I been them, I've had gotten my azz to AUS or Canada years ago. Unless they don't want $80K to $300k salaries, depending on their skills. Heck, work for five years, then come back as a king; with enough money to buy two houses. The American heydays for the average Joe are gone bud, you can thank illegal supporters combined with profit driven organizations for this.

Anyone who votes for the same party and ideology that prefers they have manufactured homes in has-been towns is crazy. If that offends people, then so be it. Once again, had they traveled to equivalent first world countries, they would see this is not the norm - certainly not in AUS. Their equivalents in AUS are living the dream.

Before anyone starts packing their bags to move to Australia to make their mint..... we had better paint a more full picture of the situation over there.

The changing face of poverty in Australia

Since 2006, the notion that "the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer" has gained increasing public and media attention. Often, different conclusions are reached depending on how poverty is measured. It is clear that Australia's middle class is shrinking, and while the majority of those living in poverty are probably not becoming poorer in absolute terms, they are becoming more numerous. However, those in the bottom 5% of income earners in Australia have, in fact, become poorer over the past decade. Poverty in Australia today is complex and changing.

The last report, 2006, The UN Human Poverty Index (HPI) for 2006 only has a ranking for 18 of the 21 countries with the highest Human Development Index.

Australia's child poverty rate falls in the middle of the international rankings. In 2007, UNICEF's report on child poverty in OECD countries revealed that Australia had the 14th highest child poverty rate.[4]

Poverty in Indigenous Australia

Indigenous and minority groups are sometimes referred to as the "Fourth World." They experience a lower life expectancy, higher rates of infant mortality, higher unemployment rates, a lower general standard of living (health, housing), high rates of arrest and imprisonment, plus problems of alcohol and other substance abuses.

Australian Indigenous people are no exception. In 2000, life expectancy of Indigenous Australians was some 20 years below that of other Australians.[12] All the socioeconomic indicators such as income, employment, housing, education and health show considerable disparities between Australia's Indigenous and non-Indigenous populations. In fact, Australian Indigenous poverty ranks alongside countries as poor as Bangladesh where absolute poverty is real. YIKES!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Australia

Edited October 20, 2010 by Danno

[Heracles 417]

Before anyone starts packing their bags to move to Australia to make their mint..... we had better paint a more full picture of the situation over there.

....

Danno, the Repub to the rescue. The Indigenous people are impoverished and have a range of other social problems which are being addressed. The certainly do not represent the norm in the country. The average wage per person working is $998 a week there, the average wage per household is $846. Now factor in 4 weeks paid vacation, additional 9% 401k equivalent, low cost health care [ which is better quality too might I add], other fringe benefits like company car and fuel etc etc etc, surely you get the drift. Lose your job? NP, unlimited unemployment benefits and low cost health care.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Poverty_Index

The Human Poverty Index is an indication of the standard of living in a country, developed by the United Nations (UN). For highly developed countries, the UN considers that it can better reflect the extent of deprivation compared to the Human Development Index.[1] Ranks 19 countries - 2008

Thanks for providing this list of highly developed countries Danno. Care to discuss the type and approach to government all expect the US have on this list.

However lets look at what this particular index is comparing:

• Probability at birth of not surviving to age 60
  
• People lacking functional literacy skills
  
• Long-term unemployment (12 months or more)
  
• Population below 50% of median adjusted household disposable income
  

You must have missed where the US ranks on this list.

=======

Of course we could look at the HDI, which ranks 182 countries, is from 2009 and compares:

• Life expectancy at birth, as an index of population health and longevity
  
• Knowledge and education, as measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weighting) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrollment ratio (with one-third weighting).
  
• Standard of living, as indicated by the natural logarithm of gross domestic product per capita at purchasing power parity.
  

My my AUS ranks #2 in the entire world.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Heracles

[Heracles 417]

edit: per household here is $846.

Danno, did I mention the fellow conservatives there delivered eight years straight of federal budget surpluses. All while providing some fantastic benefits to the country.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Heracles

[Danno 1,228]

edit: per household here is $846.

Danno, did I mention the fellow conservatives there delivered eight years straight of federal budget surpluses. All while providing some fantastic benefits to the country.

The number I would be interested in seeing along side the weekly pay is the medium price for a 3 bedroom house?

[Heracles 417]

The number I would be interested in seeing along side the weekly pay is the medium price for a 3 bedroom house?

How many times do I need to go through this with you guys? Third world countries have cheap homes and cheap stuff. Is this a good thing for them? Has it benefited them in any way? NO, they are still impoverished - dirt poor.

To the contrary, the countries in the index you posted are all expensive to live in. However, people also receive the reciprocal salaries and benefits. So you tell me which country's citizens are doing better. Better as in have a higher Q.O.L and high standard of living. Those with cheap homes or those residing in countries where [yes] things cost more, yet they all have more money in their hand. Yes, as a result of this, a hammer costs $6.20 there rather than $3.90 at walmart.

Like a good quality car, a high Q.O.L costs money. What you fail to acknowledge is that over here, only the wealthy have the money, the middle class and the poor [80% of Americans] only have access to 15% of the country's wealth. This growing disparity is why the gap between the rich and poor is growing to the Mr Potter days again. I'd prefer the 50's and 60's, when the tax rate on the high earners was also 90%. Coincidentally enough, a time when the largest percentage of Americans were doing well and the country led in every single index. Evidently you would rather ignore that time and go back to the Mr Potter days.

What the countries you care not to look at have proven is that together a country does better, versus the status quo attitude here of to-each-his own. Ironically, this unity is what built America from the 40's to the 60's, rather than the jungle-rules your Palin and co advocate.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Heracles

[luckytxn 2,264]

Some interesting perspectives on Australia from the comments on the following link:

http://krisbrower.co...r-than-the-usa/

I have seen a lot of these and there are others. The best ones are the one that are life time Aussies whining about their own country constantly. That is what I remember the most about that country when I was there. Everyone there whined about everything. And that one that said it was so boring there hit the nail on the head. It was the most boring place I ever been to and I have been all over the world.

It was no wonder that the babes there asked me to introduce them to real men from Texas. Their begging was almost embarrassing.

[Heracles 417]

I have seen a lot of these and there are others. The best ones are the one that are life time Aussies whining about their own country constantly. That is what I remember the most about that country when I was there. Everyone there whined about everything. And that one that said it was so boring there hit the nail on the head. It was the most boring place I ever been to and I have been all over the world.

It was no wonder that the babes there asked me to introduce them to real men from Texas. Their begging was almost embarrassing.

You get more ridiculous with every post. To the contrary, it's me who cleaned out in Texas, back in the single days.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Dems will lose. Poverty will go down.

[mawilson 2,133]

5. No tall-poppy syndrome - Americans look up to successful people as role model, this is one thing I dislike about Australia, they criticize on successful people (like stars, celebrities, even just ordinary business people)

Sounds oddly familiar

[Heracles 417]

Like Europe, Australia is a place where people have a life. No one lives to works, so anyone who has this desire, will be miserable there.

This attitude is also the reason it's the number one destination for Brits emigrating. To the contrary, Brits who prefer Mexican food, money or do not mind the nasally accent of the NE, come to the US. Not too many of those types of Brits though.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Heracles