Merkel: German multiculturalism 'utterly failed'

[pepper 34]

POTSDAM, Germany — Germany's attempt to create a multicultural society has "utterly failed," Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Saturday, adding fuel to a debate over immigration and Islam polarizing her conservative camp.

Speaking to a meeting of young members of her Christian Democrats (CDU), Merkel said allowing people of different cultural backgrounds to live side by side without integrating had not worked in a country that is home to some four million Muslims.

"This (multicultural) approach has failed, utterly failed," Merkel told the meeting in Potsdam, south of Berlin.

Merkel faces pressure from within her CDU to take a tougher line on immigrants who don't show a willingness to adapt to German society and her comments appeared intended to pacify her critics.

She said too little had been required of immigrants in the past and repeated her usual line that they should learn German in order to get by in school and have opportunities on the labor market.

The debate over foreigners in Germany has shifted since former central banker Thilo Sarrazin published a book accusing Muslim immigrants of lowering the intelligence of German society.

Sarrazin was censured for his views and dismissed from the Bundesbank, but his book proved highly popular and polls showed a majority of Germans agreed with the thrust of his arguments.

Merkel has tried to accommodate both sides of the debate, talking tough on integration but also telling Germans that they must accept that mosques have become part of their landscape.

She said on Saturday that the education of unemployed Germans should take priority over recruiting workers from abroad, while noting Germany could not get by without skilled foreign workers.

In a weekend newspaper interivew, her Labor Minister Ursula von der Leyen (CDU) raised the possibility of lowering barriers to entry for some foreign workers in order to fight the lack of skilled workers in Europe's largest economy.

"For a few years, more people have been leaving our country than entering it," she told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung. "Wherever it is possible, we must lower the entry hurdles for those who bring the country forward."

The German Chamber of Industry and Commerce (DIHK) says Germany lacks about 400,000 skilled workers.

Yet Horst Seehofer, chairman of the Christian Social Union (CSU), the CDU's sister party, has rejected any relaxation of immigration laws and said last week there was no room in Germany for more people from "alien cultures."

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Moving from Off Topic to Politics & Religion as the topic is primarily political in nature.

[Ban Hammer 13,641]

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/278789-multiculturalism-has-failed-says-germanys-merkel/

[Danno 1,228]

noticed this vid posted some place today so why not add it since someone else reposted the topic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04AHUU_wxVg&feature=player_embedded#!

[Heracles 417]

I think we all know what type of migrant has brought this on.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Every country has its own identity. If you visit Sweden or Denmark, Great Britain or France, Switzerland or Italy, Greece or Portugal, every country has its own charme. Many people enjoy those country's particular way of life and move there. They move there because they want the life they find there.

After having lived in 7 European countries I came to the US because I loved their way of life. I wanted to drive a honking big American car, go to the burger joints, listen to the American Top 40, and become part of it. In the beginning, longer, actually, I was embarrassed when they identified me as a stranger based on my accent.

I did not wear Lederhosen, listen to Bavarian brass music, eat Wiener Schnitzel, have a German flag on my German car, and do anything German. If I wanted that, I should have stayed in Germany, as that's what you find that stuff in spades.

Many immigrants think the same. Nothing wrong with adding some multicultural touch to the mix, but the main idea is to assimilate to what's there.

The problems starts when people don't want to assimilate. When they don't want to speak the language, when they want to keep what they have, just somewhere else. That's why I feel we have an anti-Mexican movement in the US. Generally speaking, Mexicans love Mexico and the Mexican way of life. They listen to Mexican music, eat Mexican food, wave the Mexican flag, and so on. If they had the same opportunities they have here in Mexico, they would stay there in a heartbeat.

On the same token ride immigrants in Germany. Like here in the US, nobody has any hostility to a Dutch, Danish, Italian, French, Irish, Greek, Australian, Japanese etc. immigrants. Even if these people come from far away, often from a different culture, they all share the desire to blend in.

If a certain group, perhaps those from predominantly Muslim countries, moves to another country, whether in the US or Europe, yet wants to live their life exactly the way they're used to, refuse to learn the language, refuse to adapt to the lifestyle of their host country, problems occur.

I haven't been in Europe in 16 years, but people who have told me that I'm in for a shock. Frankly, the idea freaks me out. Every of the European countries has something unique that I like and that I want to find there when visiting. I don't want this to be a big pot of gray blaaaa.

Given the news from Great Britain, predominantly France, and now Germany, it looks like they all agree that enough is enough. I would love to ride a camel in Morocco, but I don't want to watch out for them in London traffic, if you catch my hint.

Here in the US the same problems exist. The Korean, Japanese, even Mexican immigrant who lives like an American is welcomed with open arms. Those who don't want to blend in live in their own neighborhoods. That's why we have Little Tokyo, Little Havana, Koreantown, Chinatown etc. here in California. I too feel that this experiment will ultimately fail and be seen as a really stupid idea by our grandgrandchildren.

[Ban Hammer 13,641]

I think we all know what type of migrant has brought this on.

them darn aussies!

[pepper 34]

Whoever said multiculturalism means “Not having to learn the language of your new adopted country?” You can still be a multicultural society, and have everyone speak the same language!!

It is called “communication”!

France is probably the worst affected of all western nations by immigration.With a population of 5 million Muslims, they come to believe that they can impose the will of Islam on the French people, who seem rather unconcerned with the transformation.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

They don't want to assimilate.

[Danno 1,228]

They don't want to assimilate.

Can't say as I blame them really, I mean if I moved to Iraq or Morocco because I could make 6 times my income..... I am going there to make money not to become Moroccan.

I would however avoid doing anything contrary to their customs.

Immigration in most cases is about a better opportunity not about some romantic longing to become American or German.

[thongd4me 69]

...I did not wear Lederhosen, listen to Bavarian brass music, eat Wiener Schnitzel, have a German flag on my German car, and do anything German. If I wanted that, I should have stayed in Germany, as that's what you find that stuff in spades....

Given the news from Great Britain, predominantly France, and now Germany, it looks like they all agree that enough is enough. I would love to ride a camel in Morocco, but I don't want to watch out for them in London traffic, if you catch my hint.

Here in the US the same problems exist. The Korean, Japanese, even Mexican immigrant who lives like an American is welcomed with open arms. Those who don't want to blend in live in their own neighborhoods. That's why we have Little Tokyo, Little Havana, Koreantown, Chinatown etc. here in California. I too feel that this experiment will ultimately fail and be seen as a really stupid idea by our grandgrandchildren.

I don't see any problem with the German government wishing to reverse their immigration rules,

or with the US doing the same. My wife had her visa interview in English which was appropriate

because she needs to have that skill to live here effectively.

My family came from Germany 20 years or so after the US civil war. Before WWI, German was widely spoken in the

New York area and many exclusively German cultural institutions were prevalent. During and after the war and

reinforced by WWII, all of that changed and German-American descendants of those immigrants stamped out

any German language or culture that remained. They did this not just to assimilate into the melting-pot but

as a means of self-preservation. They fought against Germany in both wars and cut pretty much all ties that they

had back in Europe. I can imagine that in many German neighborhoods before the wars, speaking German

exclusively was the rule rather than the exception, while 100% of the children learned to speak English.

In less than 10 years, that had all changed. Those people had a right to speak German if they wanted to

but pressure from without and within brought that to an end. My grandparents were born at the turn of the

century and in the 1950's I never heard either of them speak a word of German. My great-grandmother,

the last remaining ancestor who spoke German, learned English and never spoke German with us either.

Today we have 2 infrastructures, one in English and the other in Spanish, for no apparent reason other than

some Spanish speakers are unable or unwilling to speak English. The cost of maintaining that system

is not borne by those who benefit from it. I don't think we should exclude from citizenship all people who

can't speak English, but I think that for those who are younger than a certain age, let's say 45, should be

able to demonstrate an ability to speak the language of their adopted country if they want to vote in it's elections.

Neither am I advocating deporting those who can't or won't speak English. If that's their choice they shouldn't

be penalized, but the rest of the country should not be penalized either by having to accommodate them.

Other immigrants came in just as many numbers as those speaking Spanish but didn't need that accommodation.

[Danno 1,228]

I don't see any problem with the German government wishing to reverse their immigration rules,

or with the US doing the same. My wife had her visa interview in English which was appropriate

because she needs to have that skill to live here effectively.

My family came from Germany 20 years or so after the US civil war. Before WWI, German was widely spoken in the

New York area and many exclusively German cultural institutions were prevalent. During and after the war and

reinforced by WWII, all of that changed and German-American descendants of those immigrants stamped out

any German language or culture that remained. They did this not just to assimilate into the melting-pot but

as a means of self-preservation. They fought against Germany in both wars and cut pretty much all ties that they

had back in Europe. I can imagine that in many German neighborhoods before the wars, speaking German

exclusively was the rule rather than the exception, while 100% of the children learned to speak English.

In less than 10 years, that had all changed. Those people had a right to speak German if they wanted to

but pressure from without and within brought that to an end. My grandparents were born at the turn of the

century and in the 1950's I never heard either of them speak a word of German. My great-grandmother,

the last remaining ancestor who spoke German, learned English and never spoke German with us either.

Today we have 2 infrastructures, one in English and the other in Spanish, for no apparent reason other than

some Spanish speakers are unable or unwilling to speak English. The cost of maintaining that system

is not borne by those who benefit from it. I don't think we should exclude from citizenship all people who

can't speak English, but I think that for those who are younger than a certain age, let's say 45, should be

able to demonstrate an ability to speak the language of their adopted country if they want to vote in it's elections.

Neither am I advocating deporting those who can't or won't speak English. If that's their choice they shouldn't

be penalized, but the rest of the country should not be penalized either by having to accommodate them.

Other immigrants came in just as many numbers as those speaking Spanish but didn't need that accommodation.

Thanks for adding that personal angle to your perspective.

I would like to ad another part to that which I believed had the mosat profound effect on why all those immigrants actually melded into one American Culture (as much as one could hope for considering).

Reduction in Immigration.

When people from the "old country" keep pouring in to a community in large numbers, it makes it more difficult to assimilate the whole.

here are a few numbers to try to help make my case.

The peak year of European immigration was in 1907, when 1,285,349 persons entered the country.

By 1929, there were only 279,678 immigrants recorded (right before the market bust)

but in the depression years of 1933, only 23,068 came to the U.S. (Who cares about being An American if there is no payout?)

In fact in the early 30's more people left the country, than came to it.

Clearly this shows your family members had far less old country influence than they would have had.... had immigration rates not drastically dropped.

Fast forward to the second half of the last century.

The Immigration act of 1965 rewrote Immigration, though promises were made that little would change the net effects were dramatic.

Between 1965 and 1970 Immigration doubled

Between 1970 and 1990 it doubled again.

Bush SR. signed the Immigration act of 1990 which brought another 40% increase.

8 Million immigrants came to the USA between 200-2005 alone, more than any other 5 yr time in our history.... almost half came illegally.

[thongd4me 69]

Thanks for adding that personal angle to your perspective.

I would like to ad another part to that which I believed had the mosat profound effect on why all those immigrants actually melded into one American Culture (as much as one could hope for considering).

Reduction in Immigration.

When people from the "old country" keep pouring in to a community in large numbers, it makes it more difficult to assimilate the whole.

here are a few numbers to try to help make my case.

The peak year of European immigration was in 1907, when 1,285,349 persons entered the country.

By 1929, there were only 279,678 immigrants recorded (right before the market bust)

but in the depression years of 1933, only 23,068 came to the U.S. (Who cares about being An American if there is no payout?)

In fact in the early 30's more people left the country, than came to it.

Clearly this shows your family members had far less old country influence than they would have had.... had immigration rates not drastically dropped.

Fast forward to the second half of the last century.

The Immigration act of 1965 rewrote Immigration, though promises were made that little would change the net effects were dramatic.

Between 1965 and 1970 Immigration doubled

Between 1970 and 1990 it doubled again.

Bush SR. signed the Immigration act of 1990 which brought another 40% increase.

8 Million immigrants came to the USA between 200-2005 alone, more than any other 5 yr time in our history.... almost half came illegally.

I agree; it makes no sense - two things drove immigration in the 19th century - the need for cheap labor and the availability of land.

There is much less need for either of them today as many US citizens as well as immigrants already here are unemployed.

Immigrants weren't welcomed back then because we loved them but because we needed them.

If we grew to love them individually or collectively that was an individual choice, not something mandated by government.

Most other countries look at immigration with national self-interest in mind

but we are always injecting a social agenda into the mix and it is not working.

Reunification of families should be continued, but there are so many other conditions for immigration that we could reduce.

We can't reduce unemployment by allowing immigration to continue at these levels.

[Danno 1,228]

I agree; it makes no sense - two things drove immigration in the 19th century - the need for cheap labor and the availability of land.

There is much less need for either of them today as many US citizens as well as immigrants already here are unemployed.

Immigrants weren't welcomed back then because we loved them but because we needed them.

If we grew to love them individually or collectively that was an individual choice, not something mandated by government.

Most other countries look at immigration with national self-interest in mind

but we are always injecting a social agenda into the mix and it is not working.

Reunification of families should be continued, but there are so many other conditions for immigration that we could reduce.

We can't reduce unemployment by allowing immigration to continue at these levels.

Yes, Oddly enough family reunification immigrants...don't even count against to totals allowed. (IIRC)

I think few people would object to husbands, wives and their children being allowed to immigrate but what we have now is endless chain migration, where one person comes, they bring their brothers sisters... which bring their spouses and children and parents which bring their brothers and inlaws and on and on it goes until the whole village province is here. Sure it takes time but this has had a snowball effect and IIRC, none of these even count toward the annual totals allowed by law.

Good people can debate on exactly how to control this effect but I think this is another area which is looney, as is.

[thongd4me 69]

Yes, Oddly enough family reunification immigrants...don't even count against to totals allowed. (IIRC)

I think few people would object to husbands, wives and their children being allowed to immigrate but what we have now is endless chain migration, where one person comes, they bring their brothers sisters... which bring their spouses and children and parents which bring their brothers and inlaws and on and on it goes until the whole village province is here. Sure it takes time but this has had a snowball effect and IIRC, none of these even count toward the annual totals allowed by law.

Good people can debate on exactly how to control this effect but I think this is another area which is looney, as is.

Having said this, I think (to get back to the topic) that we as Americans are by definition multicultural

and should continue to celebrate the cultures we came from as well as the cultures and languages

that we find attractive and interesting. If we must restrict immigration it can't be seen as an attack

on any culture, religion or lanuage group but as an even-handed policy being applied as fairly as possible.

The world should not see the reduction of immigration as a sign of xenophobia but just the law of the land plain and simple.

Study of foreign languages, especially Chinese, Spanish and Arabic should be encouraged and promoted

if we are to do business with the people that speak those languages as they represent 3 of the largest

demographic groups in the world. American businessmen still to this day expect that everyone in every

foreign country will know enough English to accomplish the business at hand. This may continue to be

true, but in order to be really competitive more American businessmen (and government officials) should

have a working knowlege of Chinese, Spanish and Arabic if they deal with those countries or the language

of whatever country they are assigned or posted to.

The Soviet Union is a memory of the past, but Soviet government officials ran rings around Americans

with their linguistic prowess. Before they posted anyone to a foreign country where the language was

different, they made sure that their officials knew the local language at a very high level. Americans, on

the other hand, insisted that the folks in the host country learn ENGLISH and were dumbfounded by

their unpopularity, chalking it up to "soviet propaganda." Yes propaganda may have played a role but

much of their success was due to good interpersonal contacts in the local language.