Americans Soldiers Save woman who had her nose cut off

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I don't think you're getting that those two things are not mutually exclusive. There is a difference. I don't agree with the speed limit but that doesn't mean I break the law. We have something called loyal opposition it's a foundation of this country. You don't have to agree with it, but you still follow the laws/rules etc. Do you think that all Americans loved the Vietnam draft - he** no! Did they get drafted and do their service? Yes. I'm so tired of everyone having to waive the raw-raw flag to be considered American when a real American, a true "patriot" questions his government and isn't led blindly by leaders whose interests are often much more muddled than our own. I've worked with the federal government in Washington. Trust me they are all disconnected and it's a completely different ball game.

You can be loyally opposed as a US citizen but I dont think someone who wont support and defend the US in times of crisis should be afforded the right to be an American.

[MrsAmera 41]

I guess you just have a different definition of what "defend and support" means.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I guess you just have a different definition of what "defend and support" means.

The reason the oath is adminstered like it is and the promise is made is because the government really doesnt want people to become citizens who will not protect the country. I dont want people naturalising that will not defend the US and protect it. We dont need people who will materially support enemies of the US and not defend it. Its ludricrous to even think that someone who is not supportive of the US and its laws should take citizenship..Thank god for background checks...some need to be much much longer..We are now having naturalised citizens taking up arms against american interests both in and out of the country and that was never the case..

[morocco4ever 63]

lol.....just stopped in to see what's new. Apparently nothing. *waves*

[MrsAmera 41]

Not believing every line that is fed to us by "leaders" does not = supporting enemies. It's that kind of logic that erodes civil rights and liberties in the US. I have to wonder if the founding fathers are rolling in their graves at the pass some people give to our leaders. They are representing us, if we don't agree with what they do we have to stand up to that.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Not believing every line that is fed to us by "leaders" does not = supporting enemies. It's that kind of logic that erodes civil rights and liberties in the US. I have to wonder if the founding fathers are rolling in their graves at the pass some people give to our leaders. They are representing us, if we don't agree with what they do we have to stand up to that.

I agree with that but there has to be some standard by which we give citizenship to people. Would you want someone living in your house that wouldnt put out a fire or protect what you have? Thats what goes along with citizenship...responsibility.. aka defending what you have and where you live.. Even if its not with arms, its with decisive action. We take our freedom and our safety for granted so much. I dont blame USCIS for being as strict as it is.. Unfortunately apparently sometimes they let the wrong people through and harass the hell out of harmless people, IMHO

[MrsAmera 41]

I think we're talking about two different things. Of course any citizen should be willing to take up arms - but to me that does not mean that you have have to believe everything and support it hook, line and sinker. It's that concept of "If you're not with us your against us" that got us into a conundrum to begin with. There's a whole lot more grey than black and white.

[nurse1967 287]

HIT just let it go It's obviously falling on many deaf ears. I am just glad there is someone else who understands that it's absolutely hypocritical to want to come to the USA to reap the benefits of everything we have and then at the same time to criticize our government . Isn't it this very government that allows you the OPPORTUNITY to become a member of our society? I would throw out a few Arabic words now to seem more impressive but unfortunately, I don't know any. I must not be a good MENA wife.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Betsy El Sum

[msheesha 548]

So Betsy if you appreciate one aspect of the American government you have to like it all?

So if I chose to live in morocco instead of having my husband come live here i would love the aspect of the country's economy that would allowed me to stay home and not work and still be well off with just one income. So I'd appreciate that and the country allowing me to live there in that manner. Would i then also have to blindly ignore the country ignoring the destitute and having veryvlittle if any governmental supports in place to help the poor and destitute?

What kind of all or nothing bs distorted thinking are you spewing? Its infantile and makes no sense.

"Our society" as you refer to it is one of immigrants thru and thru save for the Native Americans. If my Irish immigrant grandmother who came to the US from Ireland to marry my grandfather does not approve of all aspects of the US government and its policies should she be told to go back to Ireland? Or is this vitriol only special for the brown people with Arabic accents?

[Mithra 1,185]

I'm curious, does YOUR husband love absolutely everything about the US including the gov't and its foreign policies that are obviously against ppl like him? If he doesn't say anything against our gov't, do you really believe he loves every single thing about it? Or maybe he's sucking it up as to not make you angry? I would really hate to think our husbands would have to shut their mouths and burying their opinions because we are Americans. BTW, your opinions are not falling on deaf ears. We hear you, we get it but we don't have to agree with you.

HIT just let it go It's obviously falling on many deaf ears. I am just glad there is someone else who understands that it's absolutely hypocritical to want to come to the USA to reap the benefits of everything we have and then at the same time to criticize our government . Isn't it this very government that allows you the OPPORTUNITY to become a member of our society? I would throw out a few Arabic words now to seem more impressive but unfortunately, I don't know any. I must not be a good MENA wife.

[nurse1967 287]

No, actually my husband does not agree with all policies and government here. The point is he has stated those feelings to me in the past and out of respect for me he leaves it at that. If he were to continually bad mouth my country and/or it's people then we would have serious problems. I certainly don't think Egypt is perfect either and he knows my thoughts on that as well. However, it IS HIS HOME COUNTRY, therefore I am respectful of that fact as well. My point is it is fine to not agree with every little aspect of American culture and politics, but in my opinion IT IS NOT OK to spew venom and hatred towards it at every turn, meanwhile continue to benefit from a lifestyle that is clearly superior than one he could have ever had back home in Egypt.

[Mithra 1,185]

How do you feel about your husband burying his ideas and opinions in order to appease you? I would feel awful if my husband felt like he had to fake it in order to make me happy. And to assume that his life would be ####### in Egypt sounds bad to me. Maybe it's true but it sounds like you think you're his savior from a life of misery.

Edited October 21, 2010 by je veux ton amour

[MrsAmera 41]

Who said anything about hatred and venom?! Disagrement does not = hatred. You said " I am just glad there is someone else who understands that it's absolutely hypocritical to want to come to the USA to reap the benefits of everything we have and then at the same time to criticize our government". So "reaping the benefits" means keep your mouth shut?? And it's hypocritical to speak out against wrongs? The government runs on the premise of the input of the people. If we all keep our mouths shut then the system dissolves. One of the benefits is to open your mouth. I would think a little civics brush up might be in order.

I also am highly offended that any insinuation to my politcal viewpoints would be made based on my marriage. My family have been staunch political activists for decades, not to mention I've studied politics deeply, lived and worked in Washington DC and have seen policy creation, development and implementation first hand. If anything my husband is apolitical and really has very little to say about what goes on, aside from those things that impact our daily lives. I'm the one speaking out here, I'm the one that takes issue with what MY government does in MY name. I'm a citizen, it's my duty to do so.

[msheesha 548]

Who the heck is spewing venom and hatred at America at every turn???????????????

What did I miss? Who are these two women so really angry with?

[msheesha 548]

Who said anything about hatred and venom?! Disagrement does not = hatred. You said " I am just glad there is someone else who understands that it's absolutely hypocritical to want to come to the USA to reap the benefits of everything we have and then at the same time to criticize our government". So "reaping the benefits" means keep your mouth shut?? And it's hypocritical to speak out against wrongs? The government runs on the premise of the input of the people. If we all keep our mouths shut then the system dissolves. One of the benefits is to open your mouth. I would think a little civics brush up might be in order.

I also am highly offended that any insinuation to my politcal viewpoints would be made based on my marriage. My family have been staunch political activists for decades, not to mention I've studied politics deeply, lived and worked in Washington DC and have seen policy creation, development and implementation first hand. If anything my husband is apolitical and really has very little to say about what goes on, aside from those things that impact our daily lives. I'm the one speaking out here, I'm the one that takes issue with what MY government does in MY name. I'm a citizen, it's my duty to do so.

Exactly! And, since when did criticism = venom and hatred?!

Also, excellent point about the assumption by these two women that American stop thinking for themselves when they marry a man from anywhere other than America. Would they make the same assumption about a man?

And, as far as saying some Arabic words and phrases, why the belittling of expanding one's knowledge base and learning other languages? Is it that it's Arabic that bothers the two posters, HiT and Betsy? The hatred and venom just seems to be coming from you - for those who disagree with you. Interesting (and again ridiculously hypocritical) as you are basing your arguments on the virtues of America. (Pluralism, Free Speech, Free Thought, Freedom of Expression, Freedom of Religion, Government of Representation of "WE THE PEOPLE"). Any of this ringing a bell?