"No new taxes" for GOP -- except a national sales tax

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Me: Gary what should I eat today?

Gary: Anything with HFCS

Me: Honey, throw out anything with HFCS

Is that like the steel cut oatmeal?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

There are no exceptions. Everything is taxed, but everyone will get a "prebate" for the amount

of federal tax on basic necessities.

How is the prebate determined?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

How is the prebate determined?

A card is filled out each year stating the eligible members of the household. Can it be filled out fraudulently? Yes. Can the 1040 be filled out fraudulently? Which is easier to audit?

I suggest you get a copy of "The Fair Tax Book" If you read and understand the Fair Tax you will not be so easily derailed by people that have to make up falsehoods to argue against it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But what if a Republican House and Senate and a Republican President (it will happen eventually)...

Will happen eventually? Wasn't that the very picture we were looking at from 2001 - 2007? If it's been such an attraction to the GOP for so long, they had the two branches it takes to make that move. They even inherited a balanced budget that actually left some room to play - well, until they managed to turn that balanced budget around.

[Heracles 417]

I've asked Gary before what gets refunded under Fair Tax and he never answered.

I would support Fair Tax if the following was refundable:

All food taxes (minus dining out)

Most clothing tax (2000 pre tax dollars per family of 3)

All household goods (ie bleech)

Fuel (first 1000 pre tax dollars)

Tyres

Car repair

House repair

If the above could be refunded and then you tax things like cars, TVs, electronics, property etc. then yes that sounds pretty fair to me.

If that is the case, where do they collect the tax from? The assumption everyone will spend big.

This tax system is just there to promote anti-government ideologies. The system will eventually run out of money and then the Libertarians would claim, see government is spending too much.

Like I pointed out, I'd think countries that are taxing aficionados would have look at this and analyzed it. After all, this is how first world countries operate, they don't just run on opinions of non-exist talk show host. Almost all first world countries use a GST/VAT combined with income tax and there is no mystery to why this is, it simply works.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Heracles

[Heracles 417]

A card is filled out each year stating the eligible members of the household. Can it be filled out fraudulently? Yes. Can the 1040 be filled out fraudulently? Which is easier to audit?

I suggest you get a copy of "The Fair Tax Book" If you read and understand the Fair Tax you will not be so easily derailed by people that have to make up falsehoods to argue against it.

The tax system is bogus and there is nothing 'some book' can hide. The tax system would inevitably create a massive black economy, where people obviously pay no tax, in addition it does not account for products purchased abroad. It also ignores the impact it will have on price and demand. As soon as a $25K car is worth $32.5K, demand will drop substantially. It also ignores what happens during periods like recession, where people naturally contract spending. These are not some technicalities either, they are significant flaws in the system.

Most appropriate approach is a VAT/GST + income tax.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Heracles

[Danno 1,228]

A card is filled out each year stating the eligible members of the household. Can it be filled out fraudulently? Yes. Can the 1040 be filled out fraudulently? Which is easier to audit?

I suggest you get a copy of "The Fair Tax Book" If you read and understand the Fair Tax you will not be so easily derailed by people that have to make up falsehoods to argue against it.

I have not read the book and my objections err rather concerns with the Fair tax is as I said....- The next time power is in the tax-N-spend crowds hands (this can be either party as we have seen) .. what prevents them from instituting a new income tax..... on the Rich of course (to start with).

[mawilson 2,133]

The tax system is bogus and there is nothing 'some book' can hide. The tax system would inevitably create a massive black economy, where people obviously pay no tax, in addition it does not account for products purchased abroad.

You could say the same thing about the VAT/GST - it can be avoided by shopping abroad or paying cash under the table.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Gotta love the consistency around here.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/277937-dont-say-the-word-gay-in-fun-or-you-might-be-labeled-an-evil-bigot/page__view__findpost__p__4230043

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/277511-10-florida-tudents-suspended-for-taking-part-in-kick-a-jew-day/page__view__findpost__p__4225416

perhaps you shouldn't assume anything and stop trolling? The "hey stupid" is referring to the author of the article.

So get over yourself alraedy.

[Heracles 417]

You could say the same thing about the VAT/GST - it can be avoided by shopping abroad or paying cash under the table.

True, but then you have income tax. Furthermore, GST/VAT is applied at every step of production, which means it extremely hard to avoid.

Where do you raise tax revenue to pay the bills of a civilized society when people stop spending or buy from abroad? The country is screwed or the next Sudan.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Heracles

[mawilson 2,133]

True, but then you have income tax. Furthermore, GST/VAT is applied at every step of production, which means it extremely hard to avoid.

Where do you raise tax revenue to pay the bills of a civilized society when people stop spending or buy from abroad? The country is screwed or the next Sudan.

People never stop spending completely. Whatever happens, people will still buy food, water,

tooth paste, toilet paper and other basic necessities. Also, this "fair tax" only replaces

the income tax - it doesn't eliminate import duties or other taxes levied on foreign goods.

For what it's worth, I don't think this "fair tax" is such a great idea. The problem is

government spending, not the way tax revenue is collected. As long as it remains "revenue

neutral", I will have a problem with it.

[Heracles 417]

People never stop spending completely. Whatever happens, people will still buy food, water,

tooth paste, toilet paper and other basic necessities. Also, this "fair tax" only replaces

the income tax - it doesn't eliminate import duties or other taxes levied on foreign goods.

For what it's worth, I don't think this "fair tax" is such a great idea. The problem is

government spending, not the way tax revenue is collected. As long as it remains "revenue

neutral", I will have a problem with it.

To put things into perspective, break down government spending and you get the following figures per person:

Expenditure

USA: $10.2K per person under Bush vs $11.4K now [$2.14K is spent on Military]

AUS: $15.2K per person

UK: $16.4K per person

Norway: $31.4K per person [2nd highest GDP per Capita - 1st for Q.O.L]

Tax revenue:

USA: $7.6K*

AUS: $13.2K

UK: $12K

Norway: $36.5K

* Side note: 9% of US federal tax revenue comes from corporate taxes. So this they pay too much and it needs to be lowered is rubbish.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Heracles

[mawilson 2,133]

Expenditure

USA: $10.2K per person under Bush vs $11.4K now [$2.14K is spent on Military]

AUS: $15.2K per person

UK: $16.4K per person

Norway: $31.4K per person [2nd highest GDP per Capita - 1st for Q.O.L]

Well yeah - and much higher taxes in those countries for those who make more than $30-50k.

[Heracles 417]

Well yeah - and much higher taxes in those countries for those who make more than $30-50k.

We have two different chain of thoughts here. Repubs, libertarians, tea-party types and a number of US corporations believe in cutting taxes, cutting investments in the country, cutting jobs, cut cut cut.

Whereas, I and many abroad believe in growth. Increase the tax rate? NP, just earn more to offset it. Constantly reinvest tax revenues to grow further [improve efficiency] and create an environment were job opportunities and salaries increase. Have a large percentage of poor? Invest in them so they become functioning members of society and new consumers. Basically grow grow grow.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Heracles

[Wayne and Claudia 40]

I agree with the Repubs with quite a few things, just not fiscal policies. Actually where my opinion turned is when I realized the same people who have been preaching fiscal responsibility, did not bother funding two wars. Not to mention, the $1 trillion wasted annually on BS masqueraded as protecting America.

And that is exactly how the government is run in so many countries Repubs consider socialist. There are actually more services that are private operated in AUS, than there are in most states here. The problem with so many Repubs here is that they are small blue-collar businesses or simply naive. So while they cling on to cliches and bandwagon ideologies, like libs do with rights rubbish, they don't have any real world ideas in implementing them.

I actually believe the government should function like a business, with the goal of maximizing its return and stock price for its shareholders - the American people. They generate revenue, by means of taxation and other investments. They then re-invest these dividends back into their business [local, state or Federal], in order to grow the business. These new investments generate more revenue and the cycle goes on and on; with the end result being higher prosperity for all Americans.

New Zealand adopted a "fair tax" system and they are blowing countries away like crazy. I was in Auckland 2 months ago and people are freaking beaming there.