Is Jeffrey Dahmer in Heaven?

[Teacher Mark 53]

Is Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven?

That's a question I used to ask confirmands back in 1994, not long after the serial killer was himself killed in a Wisconsin prison. There had been reports that he had become a Christian in prison and regularly prayed. (In fact, a prison chaplain wrote a book detailing how be baptized Dahmer in the prison whirlpool.)

Today I read a news article about another book,Serial Killer's Soul, released last month. It was written by Herman Martin, who was in a cell next to Dahmer before he was killed. The article states Martin writes about Dahmer's daily discussions regarding Christianity.

I thought of it as a good question to ask confirmands as we talked about forgiveness. Because if we are unwilling to offer forgiveness for the most wretched misdeeds, than it's clear we put limits on it.

The question brought shock, as I recall, which was exactly the point. Though I remember when I asked whether we could forgive Dahmer, the other adult in the class with me said she couldn't.

And it was then I realize that perhaps it was too soon after a crime to poise that question to anybody, let alone junior high age students. Because while I believe God does call on us to forgive even the most heinous acts, I also recognize it to be a process. Forgiveness for a serious wrong cannot be done while we are still in grief, or still angered, by what happened.

But I also used it as an example to tell the confirmands that forgiveness isn't just something we give to somebody else, but it is something we give to ourselves. Forgiveness helps free us from anger or bitterness. And it does not excuse the conduct of the person being forgiven, but rather acknowledges the hurt.

My example has also been the Apostle Paul, who was a terrorist to the first century Christians. Not only did he round up Christians throughout Jerusalem and turn them over to authorities, he sought permission to head to Damascus and arrest those he found these. It was his dramatic conversion, detailed first in the Book of Acts, that led to the spread of Christianity. That must have been so unlikely to the early Christians. And indeed the Scriptures show us they were wary of Paul's claims to be a follower at first. It doesn't happen quickly.

But it has been 19 years since Dahmer's arrest and later conviction for his crimes. While most of us recall the horror, only a handful experienced first-hand the loss.

So with the publication of this new book by a fellow inmate, I ask the question again.

Is Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven?

http://blogs.pioneer..._in_heaven.html

Edited October 12, 2010 by Mr. Saigon

[^_^ 5,021]

Is Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven?

What is the point of asking a question if the answer can not be independently verified?

[HeatDeath 430]

If he sincerely repented of his sins (and weirdly enough, his known crimes may not have been the worst of his sins, from God's point of view), and believed on Jesus Christ as his saviour, then he was definitely saved, and will enter the Kingdom of Heaven after the Resurrection.

Whether he is in Heaven now is a totally separate theological question. Except for one or two verses from Paul, which may not have been intended to establish or reflect a rigourously true theology of the afterlife, there is very little evidence in the Bible to indicate that consciousness continues immediately after death. It may very well be that the dead are unconscious, their minds destroyed and nonexistent with their bodies until their bodies and minds are recreated in the Resurrection.

Edited October 12, 2010 by HeatDeath

[Peikko 1,575]

In my opinion he's not, simply because heaven does not exist. However, biblically speaking he would be forgiven if his repentance and request for forgiveness were recognized by god as genuine. Whether or not people would forgive him is somewhat irrelevant as god, not people gets to decide who enters the kingdom of heaven and as far as the logic goes, that's a bloody good thing too

[Teacher Mark 53]

What is the point of asking a question if the answer can not be independently verified?

To boost a sagging post count.

[웃 910]

If you believe in Heaven/Hell God/Devil Angel/Demon Jesus/Muhammad then I recommend this movie:

Edited October 12, 2010 by Lord Infamous

[Ban Hammer 13,514]

dahmer is in heaven, chewing on grandma.

[HeatDeath 430]

The key to the Christian Gospel is to remember that, from God's point of view, we all suck. The best of us, doing our best for our entire lives, may accumulate a "goodness score" of, say, 10. The worst of us, the Mengeles, the Hitlers, yes, even the Dahmers, may get a score of -10. Maybe even -15. But the threshold of goodness required to "earn" or "deserve" Heaven is about +1,000,000,000. So we all look pretty similar in God's eyes, the way one granule of pond scum, while it may be a little less slimy than it's neighbors, looks pretty much the same as the next.

But God loves us all, Heaven only knows why, and that why we can all be saved, if we acknowledge our pond-scumminess, repent of it to the extent that God Himself grants us the ability to, and believe that Jesus Christ, by his sacrifice, in some way, [don't sweat the particular details - even theolgians don't have it all worked out and probably never will] has made our salvation possible.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Not yet.

[alienlovechild 75]

If you believe in Heaven/Hell God/Devil Angel/Demon Jesus/Muhammad then I recommend this movie:

Yes, any movie starring The Rock is clearly the work of the devil. How else to you explain how this guy can maintain a movie career with such crappy movies?

[HeatDeath 430]

Yes, any movie starring The Rock is clearly the work of the devil. How else to you explain how this guy can maintain a movie career with such crappy movies?

The Rock has managed to create for himself the movie career that Hulk Hogan tried to get, but failed miserably. Gotta give him props for that, at least.

And the Tooth Fairy movie was actually clever in a couple of places. You go in expecting a movie to be 3/10, and you're treated to a reasonable tolerable 5.5-6.5. It wasn't terrible. At least, I didn't walk out of it saying "That's 2 hours of my life I'll never get back".

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I heard it through a reliable source that he is in fact in heaven, living out eternity as a vegan.

[alienlovechild 75]

The Rock has managed to create for himself the movie career that Hulk Hogan tried to get, but failed miserably. Gotta give him props for that, at least.

And the Tooth Fairy movie was actually clever in a couple of places. You go in expecting a movie to be 3/10, and you're treated to a reasonable tolerable 5.5-6.5. It wasn't terrible. At least, I didn't walk out of it saying "That's 2 hours of my life I'll never get back".

17% of movie critics agreed with you. Of course if Hulk Hogan is the benchmark, it's not a hard act to follow.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1202110-tooth_fairy/

I don't know big Johnson's role is in these movies was, but not not all his movies blew.

The Rundown (Welcome to the Jungle) (2003) 71%

The Other Guys (2010) 77%

[The_Dude 1,142]

This is where I lose faith in religion. How can someone who lived a pious life, was a good person, supported their family and raised their children right go to the same heaven as a monster who lured people to his home where he would brutally kill them, do disgusting things to their bodies, and then eat them, just because they repented at the end?

[BishopM 114]

Not yet.

+1