Ukraine K-1 initial denial - next steps to fix

[eekee 182]

In my experience FSU women are very well educated about sex. There also seemd to be a feeling (maybe not by all but by many to be sure) that a condom was an insult, particularly for someone you were monogomous with. Maybe not so much for one nighters. The women seem to offer plenty of enticing alternatives as to where to make deposits, so to speak, so men are encouraged to, shall we say, "cooperate". At any rate, there is also a casual attitude aomong women that consider abotion as the default birth control and lots of these women are at Orthodox mass each week (probably confession afterwards)

My evidence is entirely anecdotal which means it is at least partly true, but there is no denying the astoundingly high rate of abortion in the FSU. The AVERAGE FSU woman has more than 2 abortions in her life!

2 isn't that many abortions if you're not stringent about condom use and aren't on the pill. And it's been my experience that people in Russia generally don't really know much about STDs, just that if it burns when you pee or if something weird comes out it's probably chlamydia. HPV? What? I can get warts down there???? Pretty much everyone I know thought that sex ed was something made up for Beavis and Butt-head. They've started to introduce it as a pilot program in a few select areas in Russia though, I think.

There's also a huge generation gap, which extends not only to sex, but other areas of life as well--that's why companies often put age limitations on help wanted ads, because the thinking is that someone older will just be too Soviet in attitude and won't understand how to function in the modern work enviroment they're trying to create. At least in cities, for young people there is no such stigma for condom use.

Edited October 15, 2010 by eekee

[Used to be broken 147]

Lots of truth to this.

I would hope that couples can be intimate with each other (in my book that can happen and not have sex) and can also freely and openly discuss sex (whether it be tonight or later). These discussions are part of a healthy relationship. If you are uncomfortable with this, then maybe it's that programming kicking in.

American + Catholic.. no free discussion but Frank Zappa thinks they can at least get the intimate part right

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yeah!

Wait. What?

I think I will add that to my signature line.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

2 isn't that many abortions if you're not stringent about condom use and aren't on the pill. And it's been my experience that people in Russia generally don't really know much about STDs, just that if it burns when you pee or if something weird comes out it's probably chlamydia. HPV? What? I can get warts down there???? Pretty much everyone I know thought that sex ed was something made up for Beavis and Butt-head. They've started to introduce it as a pilot program in a few select areas in Russia though, I think.

There's also a huge generation gap, which extends not only to sex, but other areas of life as well--that's why companies often put age limitations on help wanted ads, because the thinking is that someone older will just be too Soviet in attitude and won't understand how to function in the modern work enviroment they're trying to create. At least in cities, for young people there is no such stigma for condom use.

2 abortions in a Lifetime is HUGE when it is the NATIONAL AVERAGE, what the H*LL are you talking about? Russia and the FSU are in a class all by themselves when it comes to abortion. The fact is that the average FSU woman views abortion as the default birth control and they are FREE to boot, so why not? C'mon Eekee.

There is a generation gap, no doubt, but it seems to apply more to the public display and disgression involved rather than the total view of sex. A woman raised in the Soviet Union is far less likely to #### you in the entry porch of her apartment house, it is true. She will still bang your brains out upstairs in the flat. I still think one of the reasons that short term rental apartments are so popular is that during the Soviet period it was the local form of the "no tell motel" to pay someone a small fee for the use of an apartment and be assured disgression. Where as at the time it was rather scandalous for a woman to be seen going to a hotel room with a man (not her husband)

That aside, I have no morals to speak of, so I don't care, really. Just that an FSU woman may be a handful for an American virgin man. In my experience, they are not for beginners.

[baron555 934]

2 abortions in a Lifetime is HUGE when it is the NATIONAL AVERAGE, what the H*LL are you talking about? Russia and the FSU are in a class all by themselves when it comes to abortion. The fact is that the average FSU woman views abortion as the default birth control and they are FREE to boot, so why not? C'mon Eekee.

There is a generation gap, no doubt, but it seems to apply more to the public display and disgression involved rather than the total view of sex. A woman raised in the Soviet Union is far less likely to #### you in the entry porch of her apartment house, it is true. She will still bang your brains out upstairs in the flat. I still think one of the reasons that short term rental apartments are so popular is that during the Soviet period it was the local form of the "no tell motel" to pay someone a small fee for the use of an apartment and be assured disgression. Where as at the time it was rather scandalous for a woman to be seen going to a hotel room with a man (not her husband)

That aside, I have no morals to speak of, so I don't care, really. Just that an FSU woman may be a handful for an American virgin man. In my experience, they are not for beginners.

My wife and son just returned yesterday from a 5 week visit to family and friends. All went smoothly and no problems at POE, Chicago.

Now I am at work where I can relax!!!

[slim 1,525]

2 abortions in a Lifetime is HUGE when it is the NATIONAL AVERAGE,

So it's better for women to just stay on birth control and act like they're not getting pregnant? "Oh, I've never had an abortion." Well, no sh!t, Sherlock. But you've been on the pill since you were 14. Taking the moral high ground again, are we?

This is what really kills me with the whole abortion debate. Abortion is so bad and wrong yet nobody says jack about the real moral issue involved - sex outside of marriage. It's OK as long as nobody has to get an abortion.

In the FSU, it really is "not a big deal." It's just surprising how far down their noses women here in the US (who've been on the pill forever) look at their sisters from across the way in terms of this issue. Since eekee's lived there so long, I'm sure it's "not a big deal" for her either. But, upon returning to NYC, imagine the ruckus that would ensue if she were to tell all her buddies about the two or three abortions she and all her girlfriends in STP have averaged over the last few years.

an FSU woman may be a handful for an American virgin man. In my experience, they are not for beginners.

In my experience, inexperienced men don't last long in relationships with FSU women. They'll get the privilege of hanging around for a while but it's usually for things like phone cards, mom needs surgery, etc.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So it's better for women to just stay on birth control and act like they're not getting pregnant? "Oh, I've never had an abortion." Well, no sh!t, Sherlock. But you've been on the pill since you were 14. Taking the moral high ground again, are we?

This is what really kills me with the whole abortion debate. Abortion is so bad and wrong yet nobody says jack about the real moral issue involved - sex outside of marriage. It's OK as long as nobody has to get an abortion.

In the FSU, it really is "not a big deal." It's just surprising how far down their noses women here in the US (who've been on the pill forever) look at their sisters from across the way in terms of this issue. Since eekee's lived there so long, I'm sure it's "not a big deal" for her either. But, upon returning to NYC, imagine the ruckus that would ensue if she were to tell all her buddies about the two or three abortions she and all her girlfriends in STP have averaged over the last few years.

In my experience, inexperienced men don't last long in relationships with FSU women. They'll get the privilege of hanging around for a while but it's usually for things like phone cards, mom needs surgery, etc.

Slim, I am speaking mathmetically in comparison to the rest of the world. I have no moral high ground because I have no morals I apply to anyone else. I do not care if women in the FSU get 45 abortions in a lifetime, none of my concern at all. NONE. I am just saying a national AVERAGE of 2 abortions per woman is HUGE compared to the rest of the world. That's it. I am not looking down my nose at anyone.

You are correct about being able to please a woman in that way. If they are not "speaking Russian" in bed, you got big trouble.

[AKguy 1]

If they are not "speaking Russian" in bed, you got big trouble.

What if they start speaking in some ancient druid language while waving a stone dagger over their head?

I'm getting used to it, but it used to kind of make me nervous.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

What if they start speaking in some ancient druid language while waving a stone dagger over their head?

I'm getting used to it, but it used to kind of make me nervous.

That's Kyivian-Rus Shawn...not Druid and it means "YOU'DA MAN!"

That...or you didn't take your shoes off when you came in the house.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[eekee 182]

Slim, I am speaking mathmetically in comparison to the rest of the world. I have no moral high ground because I have no morals I apply to anyone else. I do not care if women in the FSU get 45 abortions in a lifetime, none of my concern at all. NONE. I am just saying a national AVERAGE of 2 abortions per woman is HUGE compared to the rest of the world. That's it. I am not looking down my nose at anyone.

You are correct about being able to please a woman in that way. If they are not "speaking Russian" in bed, you got big trouble.

It's not huge over a lifetime of sexual activity if there is a lack of use of forms of contraception besides "pulling out" and "hope," which is the way things were in the FSU up until fairly recently. I know a woman whose doctor told her that she was infertile simply because he couldn't believe that she had managed to reach the age of 24 and never got pregnant.

Slim is right in that at least among people I know, American girls are taken to the gyno and put on the the pill as soon as they even think about having sex. Abortions and promiscuity are absolutely not related. Do you know who gets more abortions in the US than any other group? Married women who already have children. I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of abortions that comprise the FSU's statistic are also women who can't afford or don't want to have another child. I only know a handful of Russians with more than one sibling.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I don't equate abortions with promiscuity. A virgin can get pregnant her first time, does that make her a s**t? No. It does make her and her partner stupid though.

Therefore, I equate abortions with stupidity and selfishness. You were stupid enough to not use the proper protection, and selfish enough to end a life because of your stupid mistake. Adoption is ALWAYS an option. There are many people out there who can't give birth to a kid but rather than think of anyone but themselves, they immediately think about how THEIR life is inconvenienced.. shoulda thought of that before you opened your legs.

(This excludes sexual abuse cases of course)

[eekee 182]

I don't equate abortions with promiscuity. A virgin can get pregnant her first time, does that make her a s**t? No. It does make her and her partner stupid though.

Therefore, I equate abortions with stupidity and selfishness. You were stupid enough to not use the proper protection, and selfish enough to end a life because of your stupid mistake. Adoption is ALWAYS an option. There are many people out there who can't give birth to a kid but rather than think of anyone but themselves, they immediately think about how THEIR life is inconvenienced.. shoulda thought of that before you opened your legs.

(This excludes sexual abuse cases of course)

Let's look again at the cases I mentioned, where a woman already has enough kids that she can adequately afford and has time for. Then what? Sorry siblings, but at the end of 9 months, this kid's going back to the store for a refund? Also, no birth control is 100%. Condoms break. The pill can fail.

If you don't want to have abortions, don't have one. But don't go around calling people stupid and selfish, either.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It's not huge over a lifetime of sexual activity if there is a lack of use of forms of contraception besides "pulling out" and "hope," which is the way things were in the FSU up until fairly recently. I know a woman whose doctor told her that she was infertile simply because he couldn't believe that she had managed to reach the age of 24 and never got pregnant.

Slim is right in that at least among people I know, American girls are taken to the gyno and put on the the pill as soon as they even think about having sex. Abortions and promiscuity are absolutely not related. Do you know who gets more abortions in the US than any other group? Married women who already have children. I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of abortions that comprise the FSU's statistic are also women who can't afford or don't want to have another child. I only know a handful of Russians with more than one sibling.

Eekee, look at a comparison chart of the number of abortions obtained by women throughout the world. Russia and the former Republics of Ukraine, Belarus and Latvia, Lithuainia and Estonia have their own "color" on the map which no one else even comes close to. 2 abortions is a LOT.

You can argue the cause all you want, I am not. The reason for abortions is sexual intercourse, it is how babies are made here and there. If you are trying to say that women here have sexual intercourse just as much as women in Russia (or the FSU) but are protected by the pill...well, whatever. Seems like debating how many ghosts can dance on the head of a pin to me.

My experience is that FSU women are far more likely to offer samples of the "goods" for many reasons, among which is that they are more serious, generally, about getting married. The concept of "dating" is entirely different there, they do not go around "dating" for years. I had to get accustomed to women talking about marriage on the first date, usually before dessert, it was a bit frightening at first.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I don't equate abortions with promiscuity. A virgin can get pregnant her first time, does that make her a s**t? No. It does make her and her partner stupid though.

Therefore, I equate abortions with stupidity and selfishness. You were stupid enough to not use the proper protection, and selfish enough to end a life because of your stupid mistake. Adoption is ALWAYS an option. There are many people out there who can't give birth to a kid but rather than think of anyone but themselves, they immediately think about how THEIR life is inconvenienced.. shoulda thought of that before you opened your legs.

(This excludes sexual abuse cases of course)

No judgement here and I am not saying they are sluts. I never implied such. I make no judegements about what other adults do, besides I do not apply any morals to others, I am perfectly happy to apply my morals only to myself and leave other adults alone.

FYI it would be a real stretch to cal FSU women "stupid" given their really high level of education in most cases. Eekee is correct that the use of birth control pills is rare, largely because FSU people in general do not like to use medications, pills, and unnatural food in general. There are some archaic attitudes about such things as condoms, it is true.

[eekee 182]

Eekee, look at a comparison chart of the number of abortions obtained by women throughout the world. Russia and the former Republics of Ukraine, Belarus and Latvia, Lithuainia and Estonia have their own "color" on the map which no one else even comes close to. 2 abortions is a LOT.

You can argue the cause all you want, I am not. The reason for abortions is sexual intercourse, it is how babies are made here and there. If you are trying to say that women here have sexual intercourse just as much as women in Russia (or the FSU) but are protected by the pill...well, whatever. Seems like debating how many ghosts can dance on the head of a pin to me.

My experience is that FSU women are far more likely to offer samples of the "goods" for many reasons, among which is that they are more serious, generally, about getting married. The concept of "dating" is entirely different there, they do not go around "dating" for years. I had to get accustomed to women talking about marriage on the first date, usually before dessert, it was a bit frightening at first.

There's also a shorter "shelf life" for women in general, plus an American man of means is naturally going to be a highly sought-after man. Women in the United States have a lot more time. 30 is considered old to have a baby in the FSU.