Ukraine K-1 initial denial - next steps to fix

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I wondered where you were and why you weren't inhere just ripping it up! You missed it!

Slim, this was the Ukrainian girl that "hadn't had sex for a few years"...Yep, that's her, SHE's the one.

Ooohhhh.... well... damn. Poor dude. Guess this solves several issues :S

[birdman2010 0]

For what it's worth, recent quotes from my Skype log...

[10/11/2010 3:23:40 AM] Her: They did not open visa for me? i ro know what to do

[10/11/2010 7:17:41 AM] Me: Greetings. I am asking online about what our options are for appeal and so on. I hope to have more information soon. The embassy is closed today for a holiday.

[10/11/2010 2:25:57 PM] Me: Dear []. I have drafted a four page letter in response. I will fax the letter to the embassy tonight, so that they can read it Tuesday morning Kiev time. Later when you are online I will send a copy of the letter I am sending to them. Sincerely, [].

[10/12/2010 12:41:51 AM] Me: Hello.

[10/12/2010 12:42:58 AM] Her: hello are you sleep

[10/12/2010 12:43:22 AM] Me: I've been working on the visa issue. But soon I hope to go to bed.

[10/12/2010 12:43:42 AM] *** Call from [], duration 00:24. ***

[Wednesday, October 13, 2010:]

[2:50:44 AM] Her: hello i am back yesterday in night and take back all my dokuments

[2:50:51 AM] Her: how are you

[3:14:42 AM] Her: I have read letters which you to me have sent by e-mail. Yes it was once again pleasant to me to see your good and a careful altitude to me. Thanks for your anxiety. It is not very a pity to me that I could receive the visa because of the unemployment. I thought that we will meet you in the end of a month, but probably it will not turn out. On it, at all I do not know as to do. I am upset.

------

Notice how she states that she is now back from Kiev after retrieving her documents (passport, the supporting & the documentation I sent for her to bring) from the embassy. But the embassy says she never came to the interview. Anyway just FYI.

And with regard to documenting the level of deception: $1,200 was given to her for her trip to Kiev for the embassy interview. This money was for the embassy visa fee, plus for taxis, plus for an apartment in Kiev, plus for a coat and shoes she needed for the trip, since as she said at the time it's very cold in Kiev. Also while she was supposedly in Kiev, she told me that she asked her friend to wire to her via Western Union $500 which I had lent to her friend previously, because in Kiev supposedly she ran out of money. But, she never went to Kiev. The embassy confirmed this. She never showed up for the embassy interview.

And, she never went to Kiev to retrieve her documents from the embassy, because the interview never took place. So as of this morning she's still lying as per the most recent Skype message.

...just to show you what's happening.

I've drafted a letter to the embassy requesting the case be closed. And all of the evidence I've received showing the nature of the deception will be sent to the embassy. Also relevant scam notification websites will be notified this weekend.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

For what it's worth, recent quotes from my Skype log...

[10/11/2010 3:23:40 AM] Her: They did not open visa for me? i ro know what to do

[10/11/2010 7:17:41 AM] Me: Greetings. I am asking online about what our options are for appeal and so on. I hope to have more information soon. The embassy is closed today for a holiday.

[10/11/2010 2:25:57 PM] Me: Dear []. I have drafted a four page letter in response. I will fax the letter to the embassy tonight, so that they can read it Tuesday morning Kiev time. Later when you are online I will send a copy of the letter I am sending to them. Sincerely, [].

[10/12/2010 12:41:51 AM] Me: Hello.

[10/12/2010 12:42:58 AM] Her: hello are you sleep

[10/12/2010 12:43:22 AM] Me: I've been working on the visa issue. But soon I hope to go to bed.

[10/12/2010 12:43:42 AM] *** Call from [], duration 00:24. ***

[Wednesday, October 13, 2010:]

[2:50:44 AM] Her: hello i am back yesterday in night and take back all my dokuments

[2:50:51 AM] Her: how are you

[3:14:42 AM] Her: I have read letters which you to me have sent by e-mail. Yes it was once again pleasant to me to see your good and a careful altitude to me. Thanks for your anxiety. It is not very a pity to me that I could receive the visa because of the unemployment. I thought that we will meet you in the end of a month, but probably it will not turn out. On it, at all I do not know as to do. I am upset.

------

Notice how she states that she is now back from Kiev after retrieving her documents (passport, the supporting & the documentation I sent for her to bring) from the embassy. But the embassy says she never came to the interview. Anyway just FYI.

And with regard to documenting the level of deception: $1,200 was given to her for her trip to Kiev for the embassy interview. This money was for the embassy visa fee, plus for taxis, plus for an apartment in Kiev, plus for a coat and shoes she needed for the trip, since as she said at the time it's very cold in Kiev. Also while she was supposedly in Kiev, she told me that she asked her friend to wire to her via Western Union $500 which I had lent to her friend previously, because in Kiev supposedly she ran out of money. But, she never went to Kiev. The embassy confirmed this. She never showed up for the embassy interview.

And, she never went to Kiev to retrieve her documents from the embassy, because the interview never took place. So as of this morning she's still lying as per the most recent Skype message.

...just to show you what's happening.

I've drafted a letter to the embassy requesting the case be closed. And all of the evidence I've received showing the nature of the deception will be sent to the embassy. Also relevant scam notification websites will be notified this weekend.

Maybe the consulate is lying?

Yeah, OK, I get it now for the cost of the trip. Coat and boots for Kiev. I lived in Odessa, it is on exactly the same line of latitude as Montreal, Canada. The Black Sea tempers things a bit but it gets damn cold there sometimes. I consider the winter more like New York or Boston than Montreal, (and now I live near Montreal, so I know the difference) but I ASSURE you she already has a coat and boots. Those things are expensive in Ukraine and Odessa is not a cheap place to go shopping.

FYI, it is currently running daytime temps in the 50s in Kiev and nightime about 32 (0 C) Cool, to be sure, but hardly "cold"

But this is interesting, keep us informed. Sorry for your loss, but we may as well have some fun now.

FYI, there is an awful lot in her breif wiriting above that I would call "BULLSH*T" on and I bet nearly anyone here married to a RUB woman would do the same. So keep us in your "favorites" for future reference. Alomost her entire response after "How are you" is not the typical response of a sincere Ukrainian woman. No way. Not even one using a computer based translator program.

[Islapaz 41]

FYI We just did a train trip back and forward from Odessa to Kiev, it cost around 20 dollars each. And as for the coat I use my fiance's niece coats the whole trip. We got a "luxury" apartment in the center looking at the main square, it cost us 65 dollars a night, jaquizzi included! These whole 2 weeks in Ukraine has cost me less than what I had to spend one night in my layover in London!

[baron555 934]

[3:14:42 AM] Her: I have read letters which you to me have sent by e-mail. Yes it was once again pleasant to me to see your good and a careful altitude to me. Thanks for your anxiety. It is not very a pity to me that I could receive the visa because of the unemployment. I thought that we will meet you in the end of a month, but probably it will not turn out. On it, at all I do not know as to do. I am upset.

It's obvious this woman does not speak much or any English. I can tell from the sentence structure but more importantly the words that the translation software provides. I've seen this many times when Alla and I were writing back and forth; there were times that I had her just write to me in Russian since she had limited Internet time and I was able to translate quicker than she.

Were all your Skype sessions just messaging? or did you also do video?

Just wondering?

[baron555 934]

So I missed a couple days on VJ.... and this is what happened. Man, I gotta check here more often.

And you missed this: He's Back, again

[birdman2010 0]

Here's the latest:

I had a lengthy Skype conversation with her about an hour ago.

I told her the embassy says she never came to the interview.

She still claims she went.

I asked her to go into mail.ru and forward to my email the message she received from the embassy. Here is what she forwarded. This is a direct copy from my email, with a couple deletions, but no additions...

> Sun, 5 Sep 2010 06:01:29 -0400 письмо от "donotreply@usvisa-info.com" <donotreply@usvisa-info.com>:

>

> >

> >ЦЕ АВТОМАТИЧНЕ ПОВ ДОМЛЕННЯ.

> БУДЬ ЛАСКА, НЕ В ДПОВ ДАЙТЕ НА ЦЮ ЕЛЕКТРОННУ АДРЕСУ!

>

> Дяку мо за користування послугами Служби в зово нформац .

> Нижче наведено нформац ю, що стосу ться Вашо сп вбес ди:

>

> XXXXXX

> XXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXXXX

> October 07 2010, 09:00

>

> М сце проведення в зово сп вбес ди:

> Консульский в дд л Посольства США (м. Ки в, вул. Миколи Пимоненка 6).

>

> П сля проведення зазначено сп вбес ди нформу мо Вас про наступне:

>

> Вами як громадянкою Укра ни були надан ус необх дн

> документи для отримання в зи типу: К-1.

> нами було детально вивчено Вашу б ограф ю та ншу

> представлену Вами документац ю. Тому, вважа мо за доц льне

> в дмовити Вам в отриманн в зи типу: К-1.

> Так, як на тепер шн й час вже б льше п в року Ви явля тесь безроб тною громадянинкою Укра ни та не ма те матер ально бази для ви зду за кордон.

> Також, на наш погляд, сп лкування з людиною в мереж нтернет та

> шляхом телефонно л н терм ном не б льше 6 м сяц в, не достатн м для заснування с мейних в дносин.

>

> Але пропону мо Вам звернутись до Консульского в дд лу Посольства США

> в Укра н через деякий час.

>

> Також, пов домля мо, що в дпов дно до отримано Вами карти 07 жовтня 2010 року Ви ма те можлив сть при хати до Консульского в дд лу Посольства США

> в Укра н за отримання свого закордонного паспорта.

>

> З найкращими побажаннями,

> Служба в зово нформац

>

>

>

--------------end of quote of forwarded message that came to my gmail account

I think it's the same message. But note the date of September 5.

I had my nephew on the line for a while and he listened. She never denied going to Kiev. She also spoke about how she gave up her relationship with her long time friend who's also a cousin because of our relationship.

I told her she could call to the embassy tomorrow and find out why they would be telling me that she never showed up for the interview.

But at this point I cannot see why the embassy would tell me she never came if she did come.

And the date on her supposedly forwarded email has a quoting date of September 5, not October. She forgot to change the date in this "forwarded" email. Note again the following line from the email she "forwarded:"

Sun, 5 Sep 2010 06:01:29 -0400 письмо от "donotreply@usvisa-info.com" <donotreply@usvisa-info.com>:

-------------------------

So anyway. If you have recommendations on how to avoid this psychological mode where a person is highly disingenuous let me know. My nephew and I were commenting to each other that while we may not be able to comprehend such a level of deception, there is a culture of deception where people use it to survive. How one sifts through this is still a mystery to me. But perhaps you have some advise.

[SMR 368]

Here's the latest:

I had a lengthy Skype conversation with her about an hour ago.

I told her the embassy says she never came to the interview.

She still claims she went.

I asked her to go into mail.ru and forward to my email the message she received from the embassy. Here is what she forwarded. This is a direct copy from my email, with a couple deletions, but no additions...

> Sun, 5 Sep 2010 06:01:29 -0400 письмо от "donotreply@usvisa-info.com" <donotreply@usvisa-info.com>:

>

> >

> >ЦЕ АВТОМАТИЧНЕ ПОВ ДОМЛЕННЯ.

> БУДЬ ЛАСКА, НЕ В ДПОВ ДАЙТЕ НА ЦЮ ЕЛЕКТРОННУ АДРЕСУ!

>

> Дяку мо за користування послугами Служби в зово нформац .

> Нижче наведено нформац ю, що стосу ться Вашо сп вбес ди:

>

> XXXXXX

> XXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXXXX

> October 07 2010, 09:00

>

> М сце проведення в зово сп вбес ди:

> Консульский в дд л Посольства США (м. Ки в, вул. Миколи Пимоненка 6).

>

> П сля проведення зазначено сп вбес ди нформу мо Вас про наступне:

>

> Вами як громадянкою Укра ни були надан ус необх дн

> документи для отримання в зи типу: К-1.

> нами було детально вивчено Вашу б ограф ю та ншу

> представлену Вами документац ю. Тому, вважа мо за доц льне

> в дмовити Вам в отриманн в зи типу: К-1.

> Так, як на тепер шн й час вже б льше п в року Ви явля тесь безроб тною громадянинкою Укра ни та не ма те матер ально бази для ви зду за кордон.

> Також, на наш погляд, сп лкування з людиною в мереж нтернет та

> шляхом телефонно л н терм ном не б льше 6 м сяц в, не достатн м для заснування с мейних в дносин.

>

> Але пропону мо Вам звернутись до Консульского в дд лу Посольства США

> в Укра н через деякий час.

>

> Також, пов домля мо, що в дпов дно до отримано Вами карти 07 жовтня 2010 року Ви ма те можлив сть при хати до Консульского в дд лу Посольства США

> в Укра н за отримання свого закордонного паспорта.

>

> З найкращими побажаннями,

> Служба в зово нформац

>

>

>

--------------end of quote of forwarded message that came to my gmail account

I think it's the same message. But note the date of September 5.

I had my nephew on the line for a while and he listened. She never denied going to Kiev. She also spoke about how she gave up her relationship with her long time friend who's also a cousin because of our relationship.

I told her she could call to the embassy tomorrow and find out why they would be telling me that she never showed up for the interview.

But at this point I cannot see why the embassy would tell me she never came if she did come.

And the date on her supposedly forwarded email has a quoting date of September 5, not October. She forgot to change the date in this "forwarded" email. Note again the following line from the email she "forwarded:"

Sun, 5 Sep 2010 06:01:29 -0400 письмо от "donotreply@usvisa-info.com" <donotreply@usvisa-info.com>:

-------------------------

So anyway. If you have recommendations on how to avoid this psychological mode where a person is highly disingenuous let me know. My nephew and I were commenting to each other that while we may not be able to comprehend such a level of deception, there is a culture of deception where people use it to survive. How one sifts through this is still a mystery to me. But perhaps you have some advise.

Also, usvisa-info.com is not the embassy. It's a .com site.

As far as the deception, I don't suppose there is much you can do. There are people in every country who defraud people. It's not about surviving. You can survive honestly. It's about being lazy and making somewhat else work to support you because you are too lazy to do it yourself.

It's not really fair to call it a culture of deception. It exists in every culture. There is good and bad everywhere.

[birdman2010 0]

Also, usvisa-info.com is not the embassy. It's a .com site.

As far as the deception, I don't suppose there is much you can do. There are people in every country who defraud people. It's not about surviving. You can survive honestly. It's about being lazy and making somewhat else work to support you because you are too lazy to do it yourself.

It's not really fair to call it a culture of deception. It exists in every culture. There is good and bad everywhere.

A subculture then perhaps, because of the situation.

In Odessa & Kiev it is true that I met more down to Earth people who were more genuine.

And one out of 100 are sociopaths everywhere. Maybe I'm a magnet for them, even though I've got a pretty good conscience myself.

I'll be out there looking again local & abroad.

[Martyshk 137]

> Sun, 5 Sep 2010 06:01:29 -0400 письмо от "donotreply@usvisa-info.com" <donotreply@usvisa-info.com>

That, right there is not the e-mail address Kiev consulate uses, so yeah....

[Used to be broken 147]

So I missed a couple days on VJ.... and this is what happened. Man, I gotta check here more often.

I was wondering the same thing to, where is Slims compassionate wisdom on this

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

That, right there is not the e-mail address Kiev consulate uses, so yeah....

They could have more than one email address of course, but it would be ".gov" not ".com" This is a bogus email. Call the consulate and ask, that's easy enough. OR forward it to them and ask if it is them. It just isn't kosher anyway, like a lot of people said, the whole thing stunk from the get go. Consualtes are usually much more closed mouthed about things...vague is a better word, PLUS they give official cards at the interviews noting the problems and the associated rules.

Don't forget, you are not the only one she is doing this too, she messed up the date after she sent you the original email and forgot to change it back.

Now for the good news...As awesome as you thought this wonderful Ukrainian woman was...the really sincere ones are even better! DO NOT be derailed from the gold by fool's gold. The REAL gold is REALLY there.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Scott and Iryna 2]

Now for the good news...As awesome as you thought this wonderful Ukrainian woman was...the really sincere ones are even better! DO NOT be derailed from the gold by fool's gold. The REAL gold is REALLY there.

But dude, next time do NOT file for a K-1 until AFTER there has been intimacy.

If there is no intimacy before agreeing to leave her country and marry you, you should assume something is awry...

[SMR 368]

But dude, next time do NOT file for a K-1 until AFTER there has been intimacy.

If there is no intimacy before agreeing to leave her country and marry you, you should assume something is awry...

If by intimacy you mean sex, I would have to disagree. In general, I think the perception on this board is that FSU women are promiscuous. I disagree. My wife and I were both virgins when we married. I don't think there was any problem in the trust just because we hadn't had sex.

I don't know why Scott thinks that if she had sex with you that would instantly mean she could be trusted. It's a pretty silly litmus test.

[Scott and Iryna 2]

If by intimacy you mean sex, I would have to disagree. In general, I think the perception on this board is that FSU women are promiscuous. I disagree.

That is not what I said.

Promiscuous?? Having sex at some point prior to giving up your life and moving to a foreign country to marry a man who speaks a different language is promiscuous? Gimme a break.

I would not trust a woman who is not willing to be intimate with me, yet is willing to drop everything in her life, leave her job, family, and friends, and come to America to marry me.

To each his own.