Ukraine K-1 initial denial - next steps to fix

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

This whole scamming thing is very interesting, and now very personal to me. My 22 year old step daughter is here visiting for a few weeks. Things have been difficult for her in Russia as the only jobs she can get are the ones that pay nothing, zero, just a promise that there may be some money in 3 or 4 or 6 months. She survives on the small money we send her. She is well educated with 2 masters degrees. She has been feeling a little lonely, and embarrassed that we have to support her.

A few months before arriving here she put her profile on Elena's models and is getting a lot of responses. As I said she is 22, but going on 15, and looks like 15 or 16. She is specifically looking for guys 40+ that are well established (have a lot of money). I can tell you that I do not believe she really wants to get married, but she is looking for someone to take care of her and to spend lots of money on her. OMG, my step daughter is a gold digger......but not a scammer! Hell, she even met a few guys on Elena's models that are from our town and surrounding area and they keep calling and one has come by the house a couple of times. One of her guys is a 65 year old doctor from Chicago.....unbelievable! I want to know if he will let her call him grandpa. She did meet one 42 yo investment banker from London in Istanbul, but she insisted on separate rooms at the hotel.

I don't understand this whole thing, and I have given her my 2 cents and ridiculed her some, but it continues. Oh well.....

All I can say is "use your big head, guys"

I think there is a fine line between "gold digger" and a woman that simply wants to insure a comfortable life for her and her children. Doctors in the USA never have a lack of suitable choices for spouses. Oddly enough Doctors in the FSU are not considered as desireable as they work long hours and get little pay. At what point does it become a bad thing? Hard to say.

YES men should think with the "big head" as you say.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

This whole scamming thing is very interesting, and now very personal to me. My 22 year old step daughter is here visiting for a few weeks. Things have been difficult for her in Russia as the only jobs she can get are the ones that pay nothing, zero, just a promise that there may be some money in 3 or 4 or 6 months. She survives on the small money we send her. She is well educated with 2 masters degrees. She has been feeling a little lonely, and embarrassed that we have to support her.

A few months before arriving here she put her profile on Elena's models and is getting a lot of responses. As I said she is 22, but going on 15, and looks like 15 or 16. She is specifically looking for guys 40+ that are well established (have a lot of money). I can tell you that I do not believe she really wants to get married, but she is looking for someone to take care of her and to spend lots of money on her. OMG, my step daughter is a gold digger......but not a scammer! Hell, she even met a few guys on Elena's models that are from our town and surrounding area and they keep calling and one has come by the house a couple of times. One of her guys is a 65 year old doctor from Chicago.....unbelievable! I want to know if he will let her call him grandpa. She did meet one 42 yo investment banker from London in Istanbul, but she insisted on separate rooms at the hotel.

I don't understand this whole thing, and I have given her my 2 cents and ridiculed her some, but it continues. Oh well.....

All I can say is "use your big head, guys"

No one here believes when you tell them people work for free. There are people working for IUO's that will never get paid or hoping, as you say, for a paying job. Obviously they do not have the wage/hour laws we have here.

[Brad and Vika 129]

This whole scamming thing is very interesting, and now very personal to me. My 22 year old step daughter is here visiting for a few weeks. Things have been difficult for her in Russia as the only jobs she can get are the ones that pay nothing, zero, just a promise that there may be some money in 3 or 4 or 6 months. She survives on the small money we send her. She is well educated with 2 masters degrees. She has been feeling a little lonely, and embarrassed that we have to support her.

A few months before arriving here she put her profile on Elena's models and is getting a lot of responses. As I said she is 22, but going on 15, and looks like 15 or 16. She is specifically looking for guys 40+ that are well established (have a lot of money). I can tell you that I do not believe she really wants to get married, but she is looking for someone to take care of her and to spend lots of money on her. OMG, my step daughter is a gold digger......but not a scammer! Hell, she even met a few guys on Elena's models that are from our town and surrounding area and they keep calling and one has come by the house a couple of times. One of her guys is a 65 year old doctor from Chicago.....unbelievable! I want to know if he will let her call him grandpa. She did meet one 42 yo investment banker from London in Istanbul, but she insisted on separate rooms at the hotel.

I don't understand this whole thing, and I have given her my 2 cents and ridiculed her some, but it continues. Oh well.....

All I can say is "use your big head, guys"

My wife has two cousins (twin girls) that are in their mid-twenties and investment bankers in Kiev. They are really analysts for the bank. One of them has been working mostly on IOUs for about a year. Neither wants a foreign husband, claiming that my wife was just lucky - but they cannot imagine matching up culturally with a western guy. They would starve before registering with an intro agency too. This seems to be the norm, from what I observe, and most people in Ukraine don't ever want to leave the country for any length. Both of the gals are still young though, and well educated - from a pretty well-to-do family. Maybe that makes a difference.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My wife has two cousins (twin girls) that are in their mid-twenties and investment bankers in Kiev. They are really analysts for the bank. One of them has been working mostly on IOUs for about a year. Neither wants a foreign husband, claiming that my wife was just lucky - but they cannot imagine matching up culturally with a western guy. They would starve before registering with an intro agency too. This seems to be the norm, from what I observe, and most people in Ukraine don't ever want to leave the country for any length. Both of the gals are still young though, and well educated - from a pretty well-to-do family. Maybe that makes a difference.

I always laugh when people tell me that "they only want a green card" I cannot tell you how wrong that is (you already know, but still) The vast majority of Ukrainians have no desire to leave or marry foreigners. Alla had to be "convinced" her life would be at least as good here and she will concede it is that...at least as good. Woemn used to ask me all about it as if they were fascinated, but when you mentioned them going to the US, even for a visit, the usual reaction was "NO! I AFRAID!"

Her best friend works for a Real Estate agency and has not been paid since last year. Her boss will occasionally give her a little money against that which she is owed. She was living in our flat for a time and then moved in with some other guy. I offered to try and hook her up with an American guy (she is really gorgeous and a very nice woman) but she was not interested at all. She stays there because there really is nothing else and one day, she says, things will get better and they will start to pay her again.

On the other hand, Alla's friend, Olga, is begging me to hook her up with an American guy.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[thelastpetitioner 218]

There is a joke that says that IF we improve our education system, Americans will speak English as well as Russians! Communication is rarely a problem with the women seeking foreign marriage as they speak at least some English. Alla was an interpreter (English/Russian) and now is TEACHING English in the USA (actually student teaching, she is in her practicum II)

Alla is teaching foreign students (ESL) classes and the people from Europe consistently score and place MUCH higher in the ESL classes than other nationalities. She has a few Russian speaking students and they usually jump in at level 3 or 4 (of 5 levels) in her ESL program. I think you can search the RUB forum pretty well and not find any mentions of communication problems.

it doesnt just end at RUB ,i have been reading some regional discussions since the day i joined ( again scams interest me,i dk maybe i should become a scam detective?)and it just surprises me how people close their eyes to language and communication problems,again while not all communication issues lead to scams,but i mean for crying out loud if you cant ask your wife she is eating for dinner,how you think you can discuss finances,unless you speak her language?

another common scam here is,well in this case USC is the scammer,they come back to the country,of course looked upon as royalty ,common knowledge is america is better than iran ( when the truth is you really can find jobs,decent paying jobs here,if you look for it )tells a couple of desperate young girls/boys he/she can file for a k-1 with no strings attached for a free ( like 30,000 ).the USC gets half of the money up front and leaves the " beneficiary " running.i think people are dumb enough to think taking part in a fraud makes their lives better deserve it tho.

[Brad and Vika 129]

it doesnt just end at RUB ,i have been reading some regional discussions since the day i joined ( again scams interest me,i dk maybe i should become a scam detective?)and it just surprises me how people close their eyes to language and communication problems,again while not all communication issues lead to scams,but i mean for crying out loud if you cant ask your wife she is eating for dinner,how you think you can discuss finances,unless you speak her language?

another common scam here is,well in this case USC is the scammer,they come back to the country,of course looked upon as royalty ,common knowledge is america is better than iran ( when the truth is you really can find jobs,decent paying jobs here,if you look for it )tells a couple of desperate young girls/boys he/she can file for a k-1 with no strings attached for a free ( like 30,000 ).the USC gets half of the money up front and leaves the " beneficiary " running.i think people are dumb enough to think taking part in a fraud makes their lives better deserve it tho.

I want to agree here that communication is important. Vika spoke excellent English when I met her, so I didn't have to deal with that personally. Some couples do get around the initial language barrier somehow, but I think in many cases it is, or should be, a deal killer. IMO most successful scams are successful because the victim is willfully blind to the evidence right in front of him/her. Wanting to move forward with a visa before being able to communicate at all would seem to me a huge flag. Asking for money at any point before rings are exchanged is another, not wanting to be at all physical, ditto. No one of these alone is necessarily an impossible barrier, but we read about people all the time on vj that ignore things like this. Friends and vjers tell them, and can see the train wreck coming - but the recipients of the message sometimes believe that they have so much invested that the truth cannot possibly be true. Sometimes the College of Hard Knocks teaches them - sometimes not.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Brad and Vika

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I want to agree here that communication is important. Vika spoke excellent English when I met her, so I didn't have to deal with that personally. Some couples do get around the initial language barrier somehow, but I think in many cases it is, or should be, a deal killer. IMO most successful scams are successful because the victim is willfully blind to the evidence right in front of him/her. Wanting to move forward with a visa before being able to communicate at all would seem to me a huge flag. Asking for money at any point before rings are exchanged is another, not wanting to be at all physical, ditto. No one of these alone is necessarily an impossible barrier, but we read about people all the time on vj that ignore things like this. Friends and vjers tell them, and can see the train wreck coming - but the recipients of the message sometimes believe that they have so much invested that the truth cannot possibly be true. Sometimes the College of Hard Knocks teaches them - sometimes not.

I guess I was trying to point out (maybe unsuccessfully) that for the majority of the real, sincere relationships, the RUB woman already speaks English, It is not unusual at all. Not sure who's point that makes. Still, comparing the tactic of scammers on either side, while it may be interesting has nothing to do with the behavior of normal, shall we say "non-criminal" people. As I mentioned, YES I believe some people get overwhelmed by an incredibly beautiful woman 10, 20 or even 30 years younger than them that "wants them" and there ARE many sincere women that actually DO. So the guys falls for her and refuses to look at any bad information. On the other hand, unscrupulous men were smuggling beautiful young women out of the eastern bloc countries for pornography like crazy! They were promised to be "movie stars". Kind of, I guess.

I can only say that a sincere Ukrainian woman will be exceedingly devoted to you and care about you more than you have imagined. She WILL make time for you every day and communicate with you as much as possible. If she doesn't, there is some problem going on that you should pay heed to. In my opinion, there is no such thing as a Ukrainain woman "not being that much into you". She is or she isn't. I simply cannot imagine a woman going to an unsuccessful interview and not mentioning it to her fiance for 5 days. Or 5 minutes.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I can only say that a sincere Ukrainian woman will be exceedingly devoted to you and care about you more than you have imagined. She WILL make time for you every day and communicate with you as much as possible. If she doesn't, there is some problem going on that you should pay heed to. In my opinion, there is no such thing as a Ukrainain woman "not being that much into you". She is or she isn't. I simply cannot imagine a woman going to an unsuccessful interview and not mentioning it to her fiance for 5 days. Or 5 minutes.

Absolutely. If she even likes you, you will have no doubt of the fact. If there is a problem of any kind, you will have no doubt of that . There is about a five second (if I am lucky) delay between Vika having an emotion and sharing it. I like this no games approach to communicating.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Absolutely. If she even likes you, you will have no doubt of the fact. If there is a problem of any kind, you will have no doubt of that . There is about a five second (if I am lucky) delay between Vika having an emotion and sharing it. I like this no games approach to communicating.

Yes, little doubt of that. Agreeable things result in an immediate

[slim 1,514]

there are mor than 15 LAST names in Kentucky

There are at least 16.

Vermont is the only state where the largest city has NO McDonald's and neither does the capital city. Why that matters to anyone is beyond me.

This is how modern society measures being civilized. If there is no McDonald's, it's not a developed place. Vermont is still backwoods, frontier country.

I love this thread and this rubforum

We don't mess around here. RUB forum is where the magic happens.

This whole scamming thing is very interesting, and now very personal to me.

To really pull the scam, is she just going to stay here? She could dupe some "sucker" (if you can call marrying a beautiful 22-year-old Russian woman who's here already getting suckered) into marrying her and doing AOS. Has she narrowed her selection?

All I can say is "use your big head, guys"

Best advice ever. I had a buddy with several divorces under his belt tell me once, "marriage has nothing to do with love or any other emotions." He was right.

If she even likes you, you will have no doubt of the fact. If there is a problem of any kind, you will have no doubt of that . There is about a five second (if I am lucky) delay between Vika having an emotion and sharing it. I like this no games approach to communicating.

I think the no games approach only comes after she's comfortable with you. In the building up stages there are many women who are very crafty and watch their emotions well to get what they want. I've seen women totally play guys for everything and the guys are too stupid (using the wrong head) to notice.

In "real" relationships the women will share every single little emotion. If they're not.... well, there you go.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I think the no games approach only comes after she's comfortable with you. In the building up stages there are many women who are very crafty and watch their emotions well to get what they want. I've seen women totally play guys for everything and the guys are too stupid (using the wrong head) to notice.

In "real" relationships the women will share every single little emotion. If they're not.... well, there you go.

So default to the flags:

I just can't make an interview yet, I am so nervous = stop, drop, and roll

Thanks for coming all this way to see me, but I am a good girl, so don't touch me = find the nearest exit and plan strategy

I need a few months, and $500 per month please = run as fast as possible to the exit

[SMR 368]

I guess I was trying to point out (maybe unsuccessfully) that for the majority of the real, sincere relationships, the RUB woman already speaks English, It is not unusual at all.

I think I should add to this that if the USC speaks Russian (or Ukrainian) that works, too. Marina spoke and understood English quite well when we were engaged (and she speaks fluently now) but we communicated almost exclusively in Russian. It's more a matter of you have to be able to have in depth conversations.

[slim 1,514]

So default to the flags:

I just can't make an interview yet, I am so nervous = stop, drop, and roll

Thanks for coming all this way to see me, but I am a good girl, so don't touch me = find the nearest exit and plan strategy

I need a few months, and $500 per month please = run as fast as possible to the exit

The default flags are the same as they'd be with any other woman. If she doesn't put out by the third date....

you have to be able to have in depth conversations.

And then you need to know how to tell her to shut the

[Turboguy 6]

I think if someone is going to try to do a K-1 with a woman with no English, both need to be very patient, calm and understading. I can't see it working with someone high strung or very emotional. I have seen some women come here with virtually no English and do great. My wife's English was excellent. She has a bigger vocabulary than I do which isn't saying much. I did date some women with no English and I can't say it created any problems.

As far as age difference goes, I do think if someone is motivated by a green card and greed it isn't going to work. There are women who are more accepting of age differences than most but most ladies don't want to even consider a big age difference. Maybe the ones who will accept an age differnce are looking for a father figure or maybe some past experiences with high testosterone younger men and infidelity made them look for more stability. Something I read a while back that has stuck with me was that the marriages that are unhappiest are the ones where both partners are even. That would be where both share a similar education, a similar age, similar income and a similariy in attractiveness. The logic behind that is that the partners are nothing special for each other. If the marriage doesn't work out they can go out and find someone very similar very easily. When you take a marriage where one partner is much more attractive, much older, comes from a much poorer background then the one partner is likely to think he is the luckiest person in the world and dote on the other, to go out of his way to please them and to make them feel special. For the other they feed on the pampering and special treatment so both are happy. Maybe the old calypso song that says "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, make an ugly woman your wife" knew what they were talking about. In my own case we have a 37 year age differnce and seem to be as happy as anyone I know for the nearly 3 years we have been married.

[slim 1,514]

marriages that are unhappiest are the ones where both partners are even.

There may be something to that.

What I've always aimed for was two people who are even working together to be twice as good. Instead of things offsetting or evening out, why not double up?