Ukraine K-1 initial denial - next steps to fix

[SMR 368]

You make excellent points SMR and I will concede the argument. You win. We should use morals to make laws. We will use MY morals. I will decide which choices are outlawed. I have the only TRUE and correct morals. Mine is the way, the light and the truth. I will hand down my laws on stone tablets and ALL will obey them and they will be saved!

I definitely detect some tongue in cheek here but I hope you have realized my point. You have to inject morality into laws. There is no other basis for them.

Now this is one of the most succinctly hilarious things that I've ever read on VJ, si man. Good one, Gary!

Unrelated sidebar: I continuously wonder whether (& why) 99.44% of all Russian women seem to be named Alla, si man.

Alla really isn't that common of a Russian name. There are just a few frequent posters on VJ whose FSU wives happen to be named Alla (I can think of two for sure). So it kind of gives that impression to the uninitiated. Technically speaking, however, Gary's Alla is Ukrainian.

[slim 1,523]

Too much government control. That said, it would be nice if before being allowed to be parents, they had to pass basic intelligence tests and also show the means of support.

I don't think it is control, I think it's "public welfare" and we've already set the standard to allow govt. 100% control of that. We'd just switch it up a little. Instead of paying for them after they're born we'd implement the program where they couldn't be born until after the parents showed means and ability to care for them. The program should pay for itself within three or four generations. (Already sounds like a govt. program, doesn't it?)

The "test" would be a mandatory certification class and a financial records check. Parents would be licensed and kids would be permitted. One permit = one kid. No permit? No kid.

I continuously wonder whether (& why) 99.44% of all Russian women seem to be named Alla, si man.

See below.

Alla really isn't that common of a Russian name. There are just a few frequent posters on VJ whose FSU wives happen to be named Alla (I can think of two for sure). So it kind of gives that impression to the uninitiated.

Yep, what that guy said.

Technically speaking, however, Gary's Alla is Ukrainian.

Technically. However, I think she's (was) "Soviet" in the sense of Russian (by ethnicity) and Ukrainian by birth. I know Gary's said she was born and raised in Ukraine SSR but I'm pretty sure she isn't "Ukrainian."

Most of our wives here in the RUB forum (Allas and otherwise) are ethnic Russian even if they were born in another country of the FSU.

[LvivLovers 39]

Maybe we could just make stupid a crime! Seems like that would also do the trick and probably lower other crime rates quite a bit at the same time. We could provide quite a few jobs building prisons! Would have to make them grow their own food inside though...I don't want to pay for that.

[slim 1,523]

We already have more prisons and convicts than any other country on this earth. Locking them up couldn't work because stupid people breed too fast. Haven't you ever seen Idiocracy?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I definitely detect some tongue in cheek here but I hope you have realized my point. You have to inject morality into laws. There is no other basis for them.

Alla really isn't that common of a Russian name. There are just a few frequent posters on VJ whose FSU wives happen to be named Alla (I can think of two for sure). So it kind of gives that impression to the uninitiated. Technically speaking, however, Gary's Alla is Ukrainian.

Holy #######! Alla would bite you until you are DEAD! She is 100% Russian! Her passport says so and so does her birth certificate! Yikes! Her mother was a district engineer supervisor transferred from Russia to Ukraine (when it was all USSR) She may have ended up in Ukraine but she is as Russian as Tolstoy. FWIW almost no one in Donetsk speaks Ukrainian, it is a 93%+ Russian speaking Oblast.

That said (and that NEEDED to be said) Alla is not a terriby popular women's name, but not at all unusual. "Svitlana" and Tatiana" are far more popular along with "Natasha". But I think Tbone was referring to the general commonality of Russian names and YES it is true. I think there are about 15 first names. (as opposed to say, Kentucky, that has 15 LAST names) Alla's best friend in Ukraine is also named Alla and I refer to them as "Alla Squared" Here, I have to name her friends by a name and number...Svitlana 1, Svitlana 2, Svitlana 3.

Seems confusing at first but in reality they go by (for formal purposes) the first and patrynomic names and roll them out almost as one name so "Alla" becomes "AllaEduardovna" and their friends call them by a short name or Familiar name..."Aloechka" for example, almost no one actually uses just her first name. Pasha becomes PashaVitalyovich or Pashinka or "Pavlick" Sergii is "Siloezha" Ivan is "Vanya" ad infinitum.

Really interesting actually. The names in Russian tradition actually MEAN something. They dont have middle names, they have "patrynomics", their fathers first name with a suffix for male or female and often that is THE only name.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I shop at Walmart....Target too. Hard to beat the prices/convenience on many things.

I have BEEN to Walmart. (We have exactly ONE in Vermont) There is NO convenience to waiting in line behind multiple people trying to spend more than allowed on their EBT card or getting rejected over and over no matter how many credit cards they pull out of their wallets, not to mention walking 3 miles through a junkyard (uphill both ways) to get to the front door of the "made in China" Emporium.

I made the huge mistake of going to a Walmart last week when I ran a little low on shotgun shells at a skeet competition and was interogated and then told I could not buy the shells by a supremely ignorant cashier that said I had to be a Wisconsin resident to buy 2 boxes of 20 gauge AA skeet loads. I had to get the clerk from sporting goods who, fortunately, knew that there is no such law and the cashier was merely creating her OWN federal legisation at the cash register! (So much for morals vs. laws) I would like to personally program the JSOW for the Minoqua, WI Walmart

[SMR 368]

Holy #######! Alla would bite you until you are DEAD! She is 100% Russian! Her passport says so and so does her birth certificate! Yikes! Her mother was a district engineer supervisor transferred from Russia to Ukraine (when it was all USSR) She may have ended up in Ukraine but she is as Russian as Tolstoy. FWIW almost no one in Donetsk speaks Ukrainian, it is a 93%+ Russian speaking Oblast.

I don't know Alla personally. You've got a Ukrainian flag on your profile. There was no intention to imply that you are married to a хохол.

That said (and that NEEDED to be said) Alla is not a terriby popular women's name, but not at all unusual. "Svitlana" and Tatiana" are far more popular along with "Natasha". But I think Tbone was referring to the general commonality of Russian names and YES it is true. I think there are about 15 first names. (as opposed to say, Kentucky, that has 15 LAST names) Alla's best friend in Ukraine is also named Alla and I refer to them as "Alla Squared" Here, I have to name her friends by a name and number...Svitlana 1, Svitlana 2, Svitlana 3.

Seems confusing at first but in reality they go by (for formal purposes) the first and patrynomic names and roll them out almost as one name so "Alla" becomes "AllaEduardovna" and their friends call them by a short name or Familiar name..."Aloechka" for example, almost no one actually uses just her first name. Pasha becomes PashaVitalyovich or Pashinka or "Pavlick" Sergii is "Siloezha" Ivan is "Vanya" ad infinitum.

Really interesting actually. The names in Russian tradition actually MEAN something. They dont have middle names, they have "patrynomics", their fathers first name with a suffix for male or female and often that is THE only name.

Russian names are interesting. I've not heard of diminutives and patronymics being mixed that often unless in an effort to distinguish between two individuals. Otherwise, there's somewhat of a formality contradiction. The use of the patronymic makes it more formal while the diminutive makes it less formal. But then you have names like Сан Санич which are pretty common.

[LvivLovers 39]

I have BEEN to Walmart. (We have exactly ONE in Vermont) There is NO convenience to waiting in line behind multiple people trying to spend more than allowed on their EBT card or getting rejected over and over no matter how many credit cards they pull out of their wallets, not to mention walking 3 miles through a junkyard (uphill both ways) to get to the front door of the "made in China" Emporium.

I made the huge mistake of going to a Walmart last week when I ran a little low on shotgun shells at a skeet competition and was interogated and then told I could not buy the shells by a supremely ignorant cashier that said I had to be a Wisconsin resident to buy 2 boxes of 20 gauge AA skeet loads. I had to get the clerk from sporting goods who, fortunately, knew that there is no such law and the cashier was merely creating her OWN federal legisation at the cash register! (So much for morals vs. laws) I would like to personally program the JSOW for the Minoqua, WI Walmart

Well, living in Atlanta, we've got lots of Walmarts, Targets, Sam's, Costcos, etc. so I guess they are not quite as crowded...usually it doesn't take more than a few minutes to get checked out. I will say, there's all types of folks in there (how's that for politically correct? ) Not surprised about people making up their own laws...seems to be kind of a universal thing.

[LvivLovers 39]

We already have more prisons and convicts than any other country on this earth. Locking them up couldn't work because stupid people breed too fast. Haven't you ever seen Idiocracy?

Well, my plan was to KEEP them locked up and not allow conjugal visits. It had the dual goal of physical separation to prevent further spread. It's definately the case that they breed too quickly...especially when assisted by the govt. So I guess what we are really needing is something more like the Matrix?!?!

[eekee 182]

I don't know Alla personally. You've got a Ukrainian flag on your profile. There was no intention to imply that you are married to a хохол.

Russian names are interesting. I've not heard of diminutives and patronymics being mixed that often unless in an effort to distinguish between two individuals. Otherwise, there's somewhat of a formality contradiction. The use of the patronymic makes it more formal while the diminutive makes it less formal. But then you have names like Сан Санич which are pretty common.

Сан Санич????

There's also the diminuitive of just the patronymic, which is reserved for adults and indicates both respect and familiarity. Ivan Vasilyevich->Vanya->Vasilych. Nicknames are also very common, often based off of last name, distinguishing features, etc.

I've never seen a mixing of short-form name and patronymic, though.

[SMR 368]

Сан Санич????

Not sure how it's spelled. I've only ever heard it. It's a shortened form of Александр Александрович. I've known several people who used it. Perhaps it's a Siberian peculiarity. I've also heard Пол Полич for Павел Павелович. For some reason, it seems more common for a son whose name is the same as his father's.

Of the top of my head I can think of way more than 15 common women's names. For instance: Natalya, Maria, Irina, Yelena, Marina, Kristina, Olga, Aleksandra, Sofiya, Daria, Anastacia, Svetlana, Galina, Victoria, Zhanna, Yana, Anzhelika, Angelina, Kira, Ekaterina, Alyona, Alina, Yulia, Alla, Anya, Alica, Olesya, Yevgenia, Asya, Valentina, Valeria, Zoya, Lyudmila, Margarita, Vera, Nadezhda, Lyobov, Oksana, Polina, Tatyana, Veronika.

[eekee 182]

Ah, patronymics shorten with ы, not и.

Edited October 29, 2010 by eekee

[SMR 368]

Ah, patronymics shorten with ы, not и.

That would make sense.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Сан Санич????

There's also the diminuitive of just the patronymic, which is reserved for adults and indicates both respect and familiarity. Ivan Vasilyevich->Vanya->Vasilych. Nicknames are also very common, often based off of last name, distinguishing features, etc.

I've never seen a mixing of short-form name and patronymic, though.

It is an interesting, fascinating to me, topic and one that can occasionally get one in mild trouble. A "faux pas" so to speak.

FWIW I do not refer to the boys by their diminutive name. Maybe I would if they were 3, but since they are practically adult, I will refer to them with their short name. The diminutive is left for mom to use. Moms can alweays use the diminutive. At some point the father has to recognize they are "men" and refer to them like men. My MIL is simply "momma" as her short name would be too iunformal for a mother deserving respect and her full name and partynomic would be too formal. We settled on just "momma"

I describe it as Robert > Bob > Bobby

Alla has a Ukrainian birth certificate which lists her as a "Russian" nationality. She was born in Donetsk. Donetsk was pretty much an unihabited area until the Russians, during the Soviet Union, populated it with Russians transferred there for coal and gas mining, steel production, etc. For a time the city was named "Stalino" (three guesses when it was called this)

Not sure how it's spelled. I've only ever heard it. It's a shortened form of Александр Александрович. I've known several people who used it. Perhaps it's a Siberian peculiarity. I've also heard Пол Полич for Павел Павелович. For some reason, it seems more common for a son whose name is the same as his father's.

Of the top of my head I can think of way more than 15 common women's names. For instance: Natalya, Maria, Irina, Yelena, Marina, Kristina, Olga, Aleksandra, Sofiya, Daria, Anastacia, Svetlana, Galina, Victoria, Zhanna, Yana, Anzhelika, Angelina, Kira, Ekaterina, Alyona, Alina, Yulia, Alla, Anya, Alica, Olesya, Yevgenia, Asya, Valentina, Valeria, Zoya, Lyudmila, Margarita, Vera, Nadezhda, Lyobov, Oksana, Polina, Tatyana, Veronika.

It was tongue in cheek. FYI there are mor than 15 LAST names in Kentucky

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well, living in Atlanta, we've got lots of Walmarts, Targets, Sam's, Costcos, etc. so I guess they are not quite as crowded...usually it doesn't take more than a few minutes to get checked out. I will say, there's all types of folks in there (how's that for politically correct? ) Not surprised about people making up their own laws...seems to be kind of a universal thing.

Again it was a bit tongue in cheek. FWIW Atlanta has about 6 times the population of the entire state of Vermont so that explains one reason we have only one Walmart. Also only one...

Costco, Home Depot, Best Buy, Bed, Bath and Beyond and (count 'em) TWO Lowe's stores! I am not aware of any fast food except McDonalds (there may be some, I just haven't paid attention to seeing them) and not many of them. Vermont is the only state where the largest city has NO McDonald's and neither does the capital city. Why that matters to anyone is beyond me.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Gary and Alla