America's one-eyed view of war:

[mawilson 2,133]

And now more self-righteous outrage... from the same guy who posted a list of "terrorist organizations" and added my name at the end. Yet another hypocrite.

Well well now - Charles didn't do all the work - I was the one who posted the list of FTOs

(as per INA Section 219), but I didn't think you saw that.

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

Contrary to what you've been brainwashed with, ...

Ah, personal attacks again. How refreshing.

Ahhhh the self-righteous outrage... coming from the very same person who characterized me as a neo-Nazi and an anti-Semite ? How very..... hypocritical. :roll eyes:

now showing at a theater near you......pallywood the movie.

at least we all know where there is a ready supply of stunt doubles

This video itself is the fraud — originally claiming to be an actual "60 Minutes" report. It’s already been posted on VJ, and has already been debunked.

See here.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;hl=pallywood

You are an idiot and what the hell in Pallywood. Go jump of a cliff and make the world a better place.

obviously you don't know, so live in ignorance.

oh, btw, reported for the personal attack.

And now more self-righteous outrage... from the same guy who posted a list of "terrorist organizations" and added my name at the end. Yet another hypocrite.

ya know, it's funny how you can be upset about someone speaking their mind about you but when someone speaks their mind about me you think it's funny. how's that glass house of yours?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

What I want to know is, since America is so backward and "Pro-Israel", why do these people want to move here/bring a fiance here? Please...for the good of everyone....move to/stay in Pakistan, Algeria, Lebanon, etc. Shouldn't everyone live in their Paradise?

BZZZZZZZ. I'm sorry, that response is way too reasonable for a political thread on VJ.

Sh!t. My bad.

I guess it is. Just seems obvious to me. If I had serious issues with the taxes and laws in Indiana, I would move to Wyoming, Montana, New Hampshire, or such. If I thought that the people in Pakistan were all "choirboys" and could do no wrong, I'd move there. If I weren't willing to do that, I'd keep my @#$%$# mouth shut.

Where in this thread did anyone say America is “so backward” ??

The article is about the American media, and how it covered the Israeli assault in Lebanon.

Nobody in this thread (other than you) mentioned anything about having “serious issues” with taxes or laws. So I'm not really sure how you think those issues are relevant to the discussion of whether American media coverage shows a bias for Israel.

And just to remind you: One of the founding principles of U.S. law is the Bill of Rights, which guarantees Americans the right to free speech, as well as the right to lawful protest.... even to *gasp* protest media coverage or government policies. If you don’t like these freedoms, perhaps you are the one who should consider moving to another country -- one that doesn’t allow its people to express any dissent.

Scary enough, Cian, some of the most vocal supporters of terrorism here are US citizens.

"Here" as in "here on VJ" ????? Who is a "vocal supporter of terrorism" ?????

[mawilson 2,133]

War isn't about justice or right vs wrong -- it's about finding out who has the most power

to kill and destroy, and so impose his will.

Wow. At least you’re being honest – now you've dropped the BS about "fighting terror" or "bringing democracy," and admitted the real dynamic behind your ideology.

You must have me confused with someone else. I don't think I've ever mentioned

fighting terror or bringing democracy as a reason for going to war (with Iraq).

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

now showing at a theater near you......pallywood the movie.

at least we all know where there is a ready supply of stunt doubles

This video itself is the fraud — originally claiming to be an actual "60 Minutes" report. It’s already been posted on VJ, and has already been debunked.

See here.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;hl=pallywood

and debunked by who? you? and you think you have credibility?

the video shows a supposedly dead guy crawling back on the stretcher. oh right, the middle east, where corpses apparently do that on a regular basis.

keep on fighting to make the palestinians look good. it's a long battle for you

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

If your loyalties lie with your home country then you're not truly American.

This is a crucially important issue, and it's especially vital when it comes to the loyalties of the elected and appointed officials in our own government, as well as of our military and security personnel.

In fact, I’m really glad that you brought up this point, especially considering actions being undertaken at the Pentagon to weed out these very individuals, who all just happen to be tied to a certain Middle Eastern country:

Defense Dept. imposes loyalty test on American Jews

The Pentagon has banned security clearance to Americans with relatives in Israel.

Government sources and attorneys said the Pentagon has sought and succeeded in removing security clearance from dozens of Americans, mostly Jews, who either lived, worked or have relatives in Israel. Official documents report that American Jews, employed by major defense contractors and denied access to military projects, were asked by Pentagon examiners whether they would join a U.S. attack on Israel and abandon their relatives if the Jewish state was threatened.

"The policy didn't start yesterday," a Pentagon source said. "But those applying for security clearance are coming under greater scrutiny than ever for ties with foreign countries, and that especially includes Israel."

In some cases, the sources said, the Pentagon even sought to remove the security clearance of high-ranking U.S. officers who served as consultants in Israel. Some of the Pentagon's decisions were overturned on appeal.

"There's always been accusations of dual loyalty all along with American Jews who worked on classified programs," a congressional staffer who oversees the Pentagon said.

"But since the Phalcon episode the situation for anybody with ties to Israel has gotten worse," the staffer said, referring to the episode in which Israel tried to sell an early-warning aircraft to China in 2000.

A report said the Pentagon has sought to increasingly restrict access to Americans with relatives in Israel. The report said more and more Americans with Israeli connections have been excluded from U.S. defense projects based on hearsay as well as claims that they would come under Israeli government pressure. In 2000, the Pentagon issued directives that denied security clearance to anybody with an Israeli or other foreign passport.

"Prior involvement with the Israeli defense industry or any contact with Israeli security will probably cause denial [of U.S. security clearance]," said the report, entitled, "Israel, Foreign Preference- Foreign Influence Cases.”

Authored by Sheldon Cohen, a Washington-based attorney who specializes in national security cases, the report reviewed 47 security clearance hearings held by the Pentagon since 1996 in which applicants were accused of ties with Israel. Eighteen of the 47 applicants were granted clearances, but the report cited other cases in which Israel was not named, rather referred to as "Country A."

During hearings by the Pentagon's Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals, officials and judges asserted that Israel was spying on the United States. They have cited the 2005 indictment of two pro-Israeli lobbyists as evidence of Israeli espionage. Last year, Pentagon analyst Lawrence

Franklin was sentenced to 12 years for relaying classified information to the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee and an Israeli diplomat.

"The Israeli government is actively engaged in military and industrial espionage in the United States," a Pentagon administrative judge ruled. "An Israeli citizen working in the U.S. who has access to proprietary information is likely to be a target of such espionage."

The Pentagon board also asked applicants whether they would disclose classified information to increase the security of Israel so "his family in Israel could live in peace and safety or to reduce threats to the lives of Israeli military personnel."

The board ruled that strong family ties to Israel or another foreign country could be sufficient to deny security clearance.

The report said applicants were asked whether they would fight with the U.S. military against Israel in a "hypothetical conflict." Those who did not pledge to fight Israel were denied security clearance by the Appeals Board.

"The Appeal Board rejected the Administrative Judge's assumption that Israel did not pose a serious security risk because it was a country friendly to the U.S.," the report said. "It held that such a view ignores the historic reality that relations between nations can shift, and that even friendly nations can have profound disagreements with the United States over matters which they view as important to their vital interests or national security."

At one point, the Pentagon sought to deny security clearance to a highly decorated U.S. Air Force lieutenant colonel who upon retirement served as a consultant to the Israeli Defense Ministry on its foreign military sales program. A judge ruled the officer had been acting for a foreign interest because he was paid by a U.S. company that sold weapons to Israel. The Appeals Board rejected the Pentagon argument.

"The only conclusion that can be drawn is that the Appeal Board will affirm all denials and reverse all grants of clearance, except if the case is so compelling that it could not withstand public criticism for its decision," the report said.

“One is left with a sense of arbitrariness and unpredictability," the report added.

http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Israel.htm

[Risto 0]

The article is about the American media, and how it covered the Israeli assault in Lebanon.

the assault was in Israel !

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

And now more self-righteous outrage... from the same guy who posted a list of "terrorist organizations" and added my name at the end. Yet another hypocrite.

Well well now - Charles didn't do all the work - I was the one who posted the list of FTOs

(as per INA Section 219), but I didn't think you saw that.

You posted the actual list, but you weren't the one who added his own "embellishment" to it. Hence, not a personal attack on your part. (I think you generally try to rise above such behavior.)

Anyway, I think someone already pointed out that only 4 countries officially consider Hezbollah a "terrorist group" -- the U.S., Canada, the Netherlands, and Israel. Most of the rest of the world, including the EU and the UK, does not (some do specifically designate Hezbollah's External Security Organization as a "terrorist group," but not Hezbollah in full.) So again, it's a debatable issue, at least on an international level.

[mawilson 2,133]

This is a crucially important issue, and it's especially vital when it comes to the loyalties of the elected and appointed officials in our own government, as well as of our military and security personnel.

In fact, I’m really glad that you brought up this point, especially considering actions being undertaken at the Pentagon to weed out these very individuals, who all just happen to be tied to a certain Middle Eastern country.

Very interesting, thanks for posting!

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

ya know, it's funny how you can be upset about someone speaking their mind about you but when someone speaks their mind about me you think it's funny. how's that glass house of yours?

I don't believe I expressed anything about being "upset" at you. Neither did I "report" you.

But I am calling you a hypocrite for not wanting to take what you dish out.

[dalegg 143]

This video itself is the fraud — originally claiming to be an actual "60 Minutes" report. It’s already been posted on VJ, and has already been debunked.

and debunked by who? you? a

Actually, I was going to ask the same thing. I see the link you posted to a previous thread about this video where you said it was proven to be a fraud, but I don't see where you actually proved it to be a thread. You said:

Look at it again. The "producers" begin with a title of their own making (which is not part of any "60 Minutes" report that has ever aired -- note the absence of the logo,) adding the sound effect of the trademark ticking stopwatch to fool viewers into believing it's part of the actual "60 Minutes" piece.

Well, that may have been what you got out of it, but that's not what most of us got out of it. What the producers are doing is analysing a piece that ran on 60 minutes, basically showing how 60 minutes was duped.

Instead, after about :40 seconds, they cut back to their own propaganda (right at the point where the "60 Minutes" logo disappears.) Note the change when the "60 Minutes" reporter's voice disappears, and another voice takes over.

Yes, and it is obvious that the "Pallywood" analysis is beginning here. They don't appear to be disguising that fact at all.

The rest of the piece is nothing from any "60 Minutes" report at all, but rather someone's extremely weak attempt at anti-Palestinian propaganda, which the producers have tried to hoodwink viewers into believing is an actual report broadcast on "60 Minutes."

Again, I personally was never under the impression that it was and I don't see why you think the producer was trying to say it was. I think you are missing the point of the video. It is not a recording of a 60 minutes program, it is a critisism of that program.

But none of this is to say that the video has not been debunked somewhere. If you have actual proof showing it is a fraud, please post the link.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

ya know, it's funny how you can be upset about someone speaking their mind about you but when someone speaks their mind about me you think it's funny. how's that glass house of yours?

I don't believe I expressed anything about being "upset" at you. Neither did I "report" you.

But I am calling you a hypocrite for not wanting to take what you dish out.

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

ya know, it's funny how you can be upset about someone speaking their mind about you but when someone speaks their mind about me you think it's funny. how's that glass house of yours?

I don't believe I expressed anything about being "upset" at you. Neither did I "report" you.

But I am calling you a hypocrite for not wanting to take what you dish out.

and you're one for doing the same. enjoy that nice comfy bed you just made

[tsunamihart 0]

[

This video itself is the fraud — originally claiming to be an actual "60 Minutes" report. It’s already been posted on VJ, and has already been debunked.

See here.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;hl=pallywood

and debunked by who? you? and you think you have credibility?

the video shows a supposedly dead guy crawling back on the stretcher. oh right, the middle east, where corpses apparently do that on a regular basis.

keep on fighting to make the palestinians look good. it's a long battle for you

Ok thanks I thought I was toopid or sumpin' I didn't see or read about any debunking

[desert_fox 32]

Judging from the newsreels that I see on TV of ppl dancing in the streets of Beruit waving Hesbollah flags, etc., acoording to them they won...so I have no idea what the debate is about.

Hard to believe that they won when you also see all the destruction and damage to the infrastructure, but I guess you can believe what you want. I wonder if they want to try to win again??

Edited August 22, 2006 by desert_fox