Vietnam: I think all the paperwork should be free

[CoolHand2x2y2z 0]

We have all had to paid some cash to get to the end of the breadline at the US Consulate in HCMC.

I think they should make the paperwork free if they are going to be so inept about what they do, not to mention some of the rude people working inside.

This way, they can claim that they are incompetent but that at least it is free, and say, "What do you expect when it's free?"

But we all pay. And when you pay, that's a product or service at the other end. For my money, that's the worst purchase ever. No matter how our case turns out, it's still the worst for the money. And I will make sure they know about it -no matter what happens.

[nickbits 43]

Someone has to pay for the work everyone does, even if it is subpar in your opinion. The only other option would to raise EVERYONE's taxes a little and pay for it that way.

I think it is more fair the way it is.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Someone has to pay for the work everyone does, even if it is subpar in your opinion. The only other option would to raise EVERYONE's taxes a little and pay for it that way.

I think it is more fair the way it is.

Agreed. The bulk of the funding for immigration processing comes from the immigrants and the people who sponsor them. I don't mind footing the bill for the people I sponsor, but I'd be pretty ticked off if I was forced to help pay for everyone else.

On the other hand, the visa unit in HCMC, and many other consulates around the world, definitely needs to clean house. The locals they hire are a$$holes, and treat their own countrymen like dirt. The FSO's shouldn't tolerate this.

CoolHand, if you're going to complain then don't bother lodging your complaint at the consulate. This is like throwing snowballs at a castle. Take your complaint to the top of the hill - Secretary Clinton's office. By the time that snowball rolls down to the bottom of the hill it will be big enough to make a difference.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Agreed. The bulk of the funding for immigration processing comes from the immigrants and the people who sponsor them. I don't mind footing the bill for the people I sponsor, but I'd be pretty ticked off if I was forced to help pay for everyone else.

On the other hand, the visa unit in HCMC, and many other consulates around the world, definitely needs to clean house. The locals they hire are a$holes, and treat their own countrymen like dirt. The FSO's shouldn't tolerate this.

CoolHand, if you're going to complain then don't bother lodging your complaint at the consulate. This is like throwing snowballs at a castle. Take your complaint to the top of the hill - Secretary Clinton's office. By the time that snowball rolls down to the bottom of the hill it will be big enough to make a difference.

I am pretty sure this is known by most here but will say again for the newbies. This consulate can only hire people that are allowed to work there by the VN government. To get the OK to work there one must be a loyal servant of the state or a certified family or friend that will do what is needed to get that OK by the government there. I am sure everyone knows what I mean by this. They do have handlers and have to make periodical reports to their handlers.

My wife has someone that is a loyal government worker and he is invaluable in helping us get our pink and also my two friends so far. When I was there I asked him about this and he explained to me that the workers at all the embassies and consulates are what are known to be "northerners" meaning they are loyal party people. Most of them hate non party people and also feel that people seeking to leave are traitors so we have the few that are hostile.

Now of course we can say this is wrong and all and the consulates can just not hire them and so but it is not that simple. When we are allowed to open these consulates and embassies we have to sign agreements to also hire locals. These locals of course are just hired to help with the lower functions and are kept away from the more sensitive sections. We also require the same from other countries that open their consulates and embassies here in this country and we all can be sure that we get the appropriate people working in there to take notice of their workings.

We have to play the hands that we are dealt and whining about this does not help but maybe makes the whiners feel better.

Edited October 9, 2010 by luckytxn

[CoolHand2x2y2z 0]

Change comes when people take action. Otherwise, society gets no better.

The fact of the matter is that the U.S. government charges for a service. As such, those who oversea the functions of this service should run it better.

Like when I call DoS, those people can sometimes be nasty. But that's a free service and I don't have a problem with that.

However, when one is expected to pay for services rendered by the U.S. consulate in Vietnam, they have an obligation to uphold their end.

I don't care what their problems are as far as their challenges with determining cases, it's still their responsibility to deliver a good product for the money.

This is the 21st century and we should expect more in terms of service and quality from our federal government.

As far as the outsourced rice eaters, they are paid by the U.S. side so the responsibility falls upon those U.S. officials to see that customers (it's a paid service) are not tormented.

[luckytxn 2,264]

And since they are hard working citizens then they should be expected to have feelings and when being insulted constantly to also be surly when coming in contact with that person and anyone else that citizen is trying to do there. They will go the extra mile to do as little as possible for anyone when they know that the person they are supposed to help is rude to them.

[CoolHand2x2y2z 0]

[...]CoolHand, if you're going to complain then don't bother lodging your complaint at the consulate. This is like throwing snowballs at a castle. Take your complaint to the top of the hill - Secretary Clinton's office. By the time that snowball rolls down to the bottom of the hill it will be big enough to make a difference.

Say, Jim, I will do something at some point, maybe next year. But it seems like a lawsuit is pretty much a waste of time.

I'm thinking of hundreds of letters mailed out to all the people that matter, and then maybe websites search engined optimized for terms related to the U.S. Consulate in VN and the process.

Change has to take place or this madness will continue.

Any suggestions?

[ScottThuy 140]

Given the dynamic of the US system, the only change that will take place is a top-down methodology... To have this occur, there must be some influence on the people who have an impact... letters are impersonal and easily disregarded... if enough people get together and visit the congressional reps they can have an influence, but this only works when the rep is not motivated by party or money... which most are.. it will be difficult to have any influence on the portion of immigration that you are concerned about because so many people only think about those that entered the US w/o valid credentials as being the only immigration issue that exists... our situation is not only n the back seat to illegal immigration .. we are maybe in the trunk or being dragged behind... strictly a minor afterthought if thought about at all...

If you talk to anyone that has had not interaction with the system that we have dealt with, they would not believe some of what takes place, nor would they have a valid perception of the restrictions and requirements that we must deal with along the way... how many times I have heard, "you only need to get married and then she can come over, no problem, paperwork? visa? really? I did not know that.. I though just bring them over and its that easy... " If more people understod what we have to go through, I think more people would have a considerably stronger opinion about illegal entry... I compare it to us working all week to take the family out to an expensive restaurant and the bill being so hig, we had to wait in such a long queue... wow.. look at that guy that slipped by the line, got a table.. ate up.. and then ran out without paying... they dont care about us or what we went through to get there.. they only care about the guy that was so blatant and obovious.. not as he is compared to us or our situation but only his impact on the bottom line.

[michael7oanh 1]

I think if the emphasis was on making the process more efficient and thus ultimately saving tax payer money, then perhaps the general public would take greater interest.

These are some ideas based on frustrations I've experienced with my ongoing case:

- We need to use more digital scan and electronic transfer procedures of the case information and files. I don't like how it takes weeks or months waiting on packages to be physically sent overseas to the consulate and back again when the technology is there to cut the process down to minutes.

- Allow the Petitioner to attend the interview and function as a translator if necessary. It seems silly that the consulate will spend money hiring translators when I'm being made to wait across the street the whole time.

- There should be a quick rebuttal option in place at the consulate before closing the file and sending it back to the states. If the CO is the one with the 'reasonable' person doubt, then the situation would be resolved faster by having rebuttal evidence submitted directly to the consulate rather than wasting time sending the case back and forth overseas.

- The focus should be on surgically dealing with visa fraud instead of this heavy-handed "Guilty until Proven Innocent" method. A scammer would like the system as it is since they only have to trick one person at one interview before getting the visa. I'd suggest a pre-review process for all cases from high-fraud countries and have this be outsourced to a nonprofit agency that would specialize in immigrant relationship counseling. This way the couple can be evaluated more fairly over the course of months through one-on-one and shared online video-conferences conducted by a certified counselor. If managed efficiently, the cost of counselor (+ translator) would be cheaper than having to take multiple trips overseas and dealing with denials afterward. Also, this provides a more targeted way for discouraging fraud while also lifting much of the burden off of the CO.

- If they don't want to use a pre-review system, then at least specify what constitutes a reasonable person standard for Vietnam and other high-fraud countries. How many trips, how many days together, how many photos, how long before engagement, and so forth. The confusion is so unnecessary and it's the worst part about this process. At least by telling us clearly what their real standards are then people can prepare accordingly without cluttering up the system with more case submissions, reviews, denials, rebuttals, resubmissions, etc.

[utst10 0]

Michael17oanh,

I totally agree with your approached. I think the "system" could be more efficient.

As for getting through the "system", I think if you get all your paper work in order and follow the instructions CAREFULLY, the process will go quicker.

And for the worker in Vietnam, they are rude but if you treat them the way you wanted to be treated, they will tend to respect that (not intially of course).

My wife was nice and courteous throughout the process and during the inteview until the translator try to screw her.

My wife raised her voice after the translator try to "misintepret" the question. Lo and Behold the translator backed down and "quitely" repeat the questions correctly.

So far everything has gone smoothly for my wife and I. The green card was issued and we took that to the SS office. The SS office has told us that USCIS may have not file the paper with them.

And since we had received the green card, then that means the SS application was not filed. They processed us that day and we received the SS card 7 days later.

[Teacher Mark 53]

We have to play the hands that we are dealt and whining about this does not help but maybe makes the whiners feel better.

I bet you'd be singing a different tune if you and your "babe" had been separated by the process for 5 years.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

- If they don't want to use a pre-review system, then at least specify what constitutes a reasonable person standard for Vietnam and other high-fraud countries. How many trips, how many days together, how many photos, how long before engagement, and so forth. The confusion is so unnecessary and it's the worst part about this process. At least by telling us clearly what their real standards are then people can prepare accordingly without cluttering up the system with more case submissions, reviews, denials, rebuttals, resubmissions, etc.

That would take away the only effective tool that they have for weeding out the scammers. Nobody knows where the finish line is except for the CO's, and they keep moving it. Every time the scammers think they've got the system figured out, the CO's come up with another hurdle for them to cross. If they published a bullet list of the requirements that have to be met, they would be telling the scammers exactly what they need to do in order to succeed. They also wouldn't be able to make any changes to the list without someone suing them claiming they met the requirements when the petition was submitted, but then the requirements changed.

This would also remove the discretion that the law specifically gives to the CO to determine if the relationship is or is not primarily for the purpose of evading immigration law. If they did this, they might as well install an automated kiosk at the consulate for getting family based visas - you feed in your certified 'proof' of having met the requirements on the checklist, and it spits out a visa stamp.

[marlea 84]

- Allow the Petitioner to attend the interview and function as a translator if necessary. It seems silly that the consulate will spend money hiring translators when I'm being made to wait across the street the whole time.

This obviously wouldn't work as the petitioner is trying to get the beneficiary to the US, so there is no guarantee that the petitioner would faithfully translate what the beneficiary said. The petitioner could also just answer the questions themselves, which isn't fair. They could also talk to each other to try to cheat the system and lie to the CO. The point of having locals is that they are objective and not biased toward getting the beneficiary to the US. If anything, they may be biased against the beneficiary, but for the CO's that is preferable to someone who is able to help the beneficiary lie to get the visa.

Edited October 11, 2010 by marlea

[Teacher Mark 53]

The point of having locals is that they are objective and not biased toward getting the beneficiary to the US.

Thanks for the laugh.

[utst10 0]

I just wished they record the interview, taped or video.

This way they can't denied and blame it on the interview if they suspect

that the petitioner didn't meet all the requirements or for any other reason besides the interview.

Also, they will have some accountablitiy for their actions.