Work Ethics - US vs. Asia "Give-Back Time"

[Gemmie 142]

I've seen this happen in the UK as well.

My best friend used to work in a bar where she would work the night shift (9pm-2am), but she would end up leaving the bar at 4am because she was expected to help clean up and close without being paid for those extra couple of hours. When I asked why she did that, she said it wasn't demanded of her, but because they were making cuts at work (letting a girl go each week) she felt pressured to do it to keep her job, and in fact no one left when their shift ended. In the end, they let her go and tried blaming her work speed. When she pointed out that she was clearing more tables than anyone else, and also serving more customers than anyone else, the manager apparently went quiet and then admitted that she 'just didn't seem to take her job as seriously as the others' because when the company went out for a dinner night, she didn't go (she had school and lived away from home 4 days a week). She did tell them that it was ridiculous that they couldn't even find a reason to fire her, but to be fair she was going to quit anyway because they were taking advantage of her.

Likewise, my husband used to have a job as a graphic artist and because his boss was losing so much money and not getting new clients, he wasn't being paid. At one point, six months went by and he still hadn't had a paycheck. The "have no money" excuse is unprofessional and stupid.

Simply put, I think I would help your wife look for another job where she's not being taken for a fool.

[IndigoSkies 168]

You should shut your mouth, OP, and diminish the American quality of life. If you keep quiet, the company will continue to do this to others beside your wife. And eventually, we'll end up being exactly like Thailand.

[thongd4me 69]

I've seen this happen in the UK as well.

My best friend used to work in a bar where she would work the night shift (9pm-2am), but she would end up leaving the bar at 4am because she was expected to help clean up and close without being paid for those extra couple of hours. When I asked why she did that, she said it wasn't demanded of her, but because they were making cuts at work (letting a girl go each week) she felt pressured to do it to keep her job, and in fact no one left when their shift ended. In the end, they let her go and tried blaming her work speed. When she pointed out that she was clearing more tables than anyone else, and also serving more customers than anyone else, the manager apparently went quiet and then admitted that she 'just didn't seem to take her job as seriously as the others' because when the company went out for a dinner night, she didn't go (she had school and lived away from home 4 days a week). She did tell them that it was ridiculous that they couldn't even find a reason to fire her, but to be fair she was going to quit anyway because they were taking advantage of her.

Likewise, my husband used to have a job as a graphic artist and because his boss was losing so much money and not getting new clients, he wasn't being paid. At one point, six months went by and he still hadn't had a paycheck. The "have no money" excuse is unprofessional and stupid.

Simply put, I think I would help your wife look for another job where she's not being taken for a fool.

This is my advice to her as of today.

She has a few days off this week because of a scheduling

snafu in the other PT job. I already told her to look for a new

job to replace this one; I don't know if she will do that.

I don't control her and I don't own her, I just love her.

That's why I will report them if this goes on for another week or two.

She only started two weeks ago and I have to have enough data

to show a definite pattern, not just an isolated incident.

I would suggest she gets another PT job instead of waiting

for her to go full time in the other job. The other job is very far

from where we live and it would be better to have more work

hours closer to home. As it stands I'm not worried about me

being lonely, just that she may get sick from not getting enough

rest and might lose the other job which doesn't demand

off-the-clock work.

[thongd4me 69]

I would suggest she gets another PT job instead of waiting

for her to go full time in the other job. The other job is very far

from where we live and it would be better to have more work

hours closer to home. As it stands I'm not worried about me

being lonely, just that she may get sick from not getting enough

rest and might lose the other job which doesn't demand

off-the-clock work.

The above were my last comments on this thread.

The result was she stuck it out with this job because

she finds the work interesting and she feels she can

make a contribution where she feels management

needs a little "teaching" from an experienced teacher.

Also a factor was her belief that of the two evils (looking

for another job vs. staying in the current one), her current

job was worth sticking with because going through the

recruitment process again seemed too traumatic an option.

When she graduated from the university in Thailand she

was assured a job because she had passed the teaching

course and there was an urgent need for teachers. She

had done the work by getting her degree and didn't have

to prove anything else. Here, on the other hand, she

had to jump through all kinds of hoops and hazards

that she never anticipated in a million years.

Here's the good news - her first paycheck did not

reflect any of the extra hours she was giving and

that is why I started this thread with a mind to take

some action with the Labor Department. She said

she wanted to give them a chance to do right by her

and I respected that decision because it was her job,

not mine. This week she got her 2nd and 3rd paychecks,

which surprisingly DID reflect the extra time she was

putting in. It seems the managers have given her a

vote of confidence and are treating her like a valued

employee.

[Fandango 1,439]

A few years ago, I worked at a big Dept store....one of their rules in the handbook was NO working off the clock, and if you did, you'd be immediately fired. Truthfully, since this is not just some 'mom and pop' place since you mentioned the company is in other states, being unpaid and working is actually a liability issue for the company. I don't know who is perpetrating this - whether your wife's manager is the one, and that person's higher-ups don't know about it. Bottom line is, God forbid your wife was ever injured while working this extra free hour - I'm not sure how worker's comp would cover it...obviously you'd have a lawsuit, but the burden of proof would be on you to prove that she was req'd to work for free. My skeptical head tells me that if there ever was an issue, your wife would be thrown under the bus...ie - 'I told her to go home, she didn't'

Obviously, I'm no expert in labor law, just spitballing here...

I think your best bet would be to try to convince your wife that this is bad, bad, bad...and to ask her why she would want to advance in a company which exploits their workers.

Good luck and pls keep us posted.

[thongd4me 69]

A few years ago, I worked at a big Dept store....one of their rules in the handbook was NO working off the clock, and if you did, you'd be immediately fired.

Truthfully, since this is not just some 'mom and pop' place since you mentioned the company is in other states, being unpaid and working is actually a liability issue for the company.

I don't know who is perpetrating this - whether your wife's manager is the one, and that person's higher-ups don't know about it.

Bottom line is, God forbid your wife was ever injured while working this extra free hour - I'm not sure how worker's comp would cover it...obviously you'd have a lawsuit,

but the burden of proof would be on you to prove that she was req'd to work for free.

My skeptical head tells me that if there ever was an issue, your wife would be thrown under the bus...ie - 'I told her to go home, she didn't'

Obviously, I'm no expert in labor law, just spitballing here...

I think your best bet would be to try to convince your wife that this is bad, bad, bad...and to ask her why she would want to advance in a company which exploits their workers.

Good luck and pls keep us posted.

This week she got her 2nd and 3rd paychecks,

which surprisingly DID reflect the extra time she was

putting in.

I agree 100% with what you said, but it appears she is being paid for all the time I thought she was working off the clock,

at least in the 2 most recent pay periods.

Frankly after being a teacher for 26 years (not on the clock ever) and always giving back through time worked during vacation days,

she is unsure about how to manage the "hourly worker" employee mode. Since I am not there when she clocks in and out,

I would like her to write down the exact times that she puts on the clock instead of telling me that she "thinks" she is not

getting paid for time worked over and above her scheduled workday.

The legal implications in litigious America are good points - if they told you to go home it's your word against theirs if you get injured.

She went for a "mandatory" staff meeting this Sunday morning before the store opened and it was her belief (telegraphed from her

Thailand experience) that she wouldn't get paid for those two hours, but it's MY belief that she will - and I hope she will understand

that when she sees the proof.

[Fandango 1,439]

I agree 100% with what you said, but it appears she is being paid for all the time I thought she was working off the clock,

at least in the 2 most recent pay periods.

Frankly after being a teacher for 26 years (not on the clock ever) and always giving back through time worked during vacation days,

she is unsure about how to manage the "hourly worker" employee mode. Since I am not there when she clocks in and out,

I would like her to write down the exact times that she puts on the clock instead of telling me that she "thinks" she is not

getting paid for time worked over and above her scheduled workday.

The legal implications in litigious America are good points - if they told you to go home it's your word against theirs if you get injured.

She went for a "mandatory" staff meeting this Sunday morning before the store opened and it was her belief (telegraphed from her

Thailand experience) that she wouldn't get paid for those two hours, but it's MY belief that she will - and I hope she will understand

that when she sees the proof.

WHOOPS! missed that bit! and the thread date too, heh....

I blame the early mornin feedings hahahhahh

Glad to hear it all worked out!

[Teacher Mark 53]

Good job keeping your patience. I'm glad it's working out for the better.

I don't know how they operate over in Thailand, but here in Vietnam the school I work for is constantly pushing the limit of what is legal regarding their own labor laws. Money talks and I don't have as much as the owner. We get paid by the hour, but they're constantly coming up with assignments that require me to work off the clock. I got handed a rules sheet to sign the other day. I said "I'll sign, but I need a copy of this." My manager replied "Sorry, but the Principle doesn't want anyone to have a copy". "I'm not signing then." was my response. "The accountant says if you don't sign she won't pay you." said the manager. I got mad, but in the end I had to sign. They have my work permit and they sponsor me, so we're sorta' married. I can't dump them now, but I may be able to next year.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Mr. Saigon

[slim 1,525]

Plain and simply put, if she's at work, she should get paid regardless of whether she's there for a meeting or staying after her normally scheduled hours to help out. Most likely what happened is she wasn't paid the first week or two because it takes companies a while to get updates into their payroll system. Sometimes HR in Florida handles payroll in New York.

If your wife likes her job.... don't even mess with her. Let her do what she wants to do. My wife works an HORRIBLE job here but she seems to like it. I've argued and argued with her about getting a better job but she simply will not do it. Over the years, I've realized she's not working there for the same reasons I would be (to make money and pay bills, etc.) but for her own reasons. If that works for her, fine.

Just look at the bright side - at least your wife is working full-time and doing stuff she enjoys.

[thongd4me 69]

Plain and simply put, if she's at work, she should get paid regardless of whether she's there for a meeting or staying after her normally scheduled hours to help out. Most likely what happened is she wasn't paid the first week or two because it takes companies a while to get updates into their payroll system. Sometimes HR in Florida handles payroll in New York.

If your wife likes her job.... don't even mess with her. Let her do what she wants to do. My wife works an HORRIBLE job here but she seems to like it. I've argued and argued with her about getting a better job but she simply will not do it. Over the years, I've realized she's not working there for the same reasons I would be (to make money and pay bills, etc.) but for her own reasons. If that works for her, fine.

Just look at the bright side - at least your wife is working full-time and doing stuff she enjoys.

She heard when she went to the meeting this morning that they always

pay for attendance at such meetings which is what I told her.

Even though most of my friends suggested that I should interfere

I never did that and let her trust her instincts. I did complain to her

when she said she didn't know if she was getting paid for the

extra time, but I left it at that and didn't repeat it more than warranted.

She was scheduled for 24 or so hours each week but she ended up getting paid

for around 32 hours (which reflected the time she was actually working).

This was reflected over the last 4 weeks and was not a one-week anomaly.

[thongd4me 69]

Good job keeping your patience. I'm glad it's working out for the better.

I don't know how they operate over in Thailand, but here in Vietnam the school I work for is constantly pushing the limit of what is legal regarding their own labor laws. Money talks and I don't have as much as the owner. We get paid by the hour, but they're constantly coming up with assignments that require me to work off the clock. I got handed a rules sheet to sign the other day. I said "I'll sign, but I need a copy of this." My manager replied "Sorry, but the Principle doesn't want anyone to have a copy". "I'm not signing then." was my response. "The accountant says if you don't sign she won't pay you." said the manager. I got mad, but in the end I had to sign. They have my work permit and they sponsor me, so we're sorta' married. I can't dump them now, but I may be able to next year.

In the days before I met my first (Japanese) wife (around 30 years ago) I was working full time but

volunteering twice a week as an ESL teacher (I met my first wife there).

Just out of curiosity, I looked into a Japanese company for teaching ESL called "Bi-Lingual"

that would be paying me to do what I did for free and was run by a high-powered female

Japanese megalomaniac.

All I had to do was read their "conditions of service" and it pretty much amounted to slave labor.

I just laughed & left; I already had a good job and went back to doing volunteer teaching as I had been doing.

I don't think those (Bi-Lingual) folks are still in business and I'm not surprised if they aren't.