So Campbell decide to make halal products...

[Heracles 417]

It appears that it is impossible to have a civilized discussion with you. Am I surprised?

Likewise, I think VJ has illustrated that as soon as someone's spouse is from X and the poster has left leaning views, anything will be blindly defended or discredited; no matter what the evidence or the frequency of it.

[IndigoSkies 168]

Which studies are they? The ones from Mr Mustafa?

Considering Middle Eastern schools are renowned for jack ######, I think I'll accept those studies from the civilized world. You know, the same western countries you guys migrate to.

The way you keep framing the West as civilized and the rest of the world as uncivilized clearly indicates that no matter how qualified Mr. Mustafa is and how precise and through his studies are you, you're never going to accept it. Simply because his name is Mustafa or because he's from Asia/Africa.

You should go visit your nuclear power plants and your IT companies and your engineering firms and your hospitals. They're increasingly staffed by Mr. Mustafa and Mr. Visnu. Meanwhile Mr. Smith and Mr. Jones are b!tching about Mexicans taking their lawn care jobs.

Thesis: Experiments for the objectification of pain and consciousness during conventional (captive bolt stunning) and religiously mandated (“ritual cutting”) slaughter procedures for sheep and calves. Researcher: W. Schulze, H. Schultze-Petzold, A.S. Hazem, and R. Gross.

Look it up.

[Darnell 8,479]

Likewise, I think VJ has illustrated that as soon as someone's spouse is from X and the poster has left leaning views, anything will be blindly defended or discredited; no matter what the evidence or the frequency of it.

Ya, there's empiracle evidence to support that position, if you'd care to translate most into raw data, then run the stats. I know it's here, I've read almost 5 years of it ...

[Heracles 417]

The way you keep framing the West as civilized and the rest of the world as uncivilized clearly indicates that no matter how qualified Mr. Mustafa is and how precise and through his studies are you, you're never going to accept it. Simply because his name is Mustafa or because he's from Asia/Africa.

You should go visit your nuclear power plants and your IT companies and your engineering firms and your hospitals. They're increasingly staffed by Mr. Mustafa and Mr. Visnu. Meanwhile Mr. Smith and Mr. Jones are b!tching about Mexicans taking their lawn care jobs.

Thesis: Experiments for the objectification of pain and consciousness during conventional (captive bolt stunning) and religiously mandated (“ritual cutting”) slaughter procedures for sheep and calves. Researcher: W. Schulze, H. Schultze-Petzold, A.S. Hazem, and R. Gross.

Look it up.

Perhaps they should remain in the Middle East and prop up that region instead. After all, the GDP of the entire Middle East is $1.6 Trillion. Take out Israel and the oil of the equation and the region offers nothing. Now in comparison, Australia's GDP is $1 trillion.

Versus the countless studies that suggest otherwise. Once again, which of the two methods would you prefer to be used on yourself?

[Saddle Bronc 124]

so you're saying peta should be protestingshill in india?

They already shill plenty, and have even sent notes to various Gulf governments that they should not buy from India--actually insulting the intellect of these governments who chose their source slaughterhouses after certification.

The only things PETA should do anywhere are STFU and disband!

[Heracles 417]

Ya, there's empiracle evidence to support that position, if you'd care to translate most into raw data, then run the stats. I know it's here, I've read almost 5 years of it ...

There is actually, as you will not see the same sort of discussion in forums where people do not have a personal attachments to places.

You certainly will not see me defending something blindly that is clearly wrong, just because I have some link to it. Right is right, wrong is wrong; well to those of us that are not biased and civilized. An attack on gang crime for example, does not mean someone's spouse is a gangsta. However, many seem to take it like that and go off on baseless tangents; with may favorite being not all do it.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Heracles

[Jenn! 918]

Likewise, I think VJ has illustrated that as soon as someone's spouse is from X and the poster has left leaning views, anything will be blindly defended or discredited; no matter what the evidence or the frequency of it.

Nothing short of "Islam is a barbaric religion that should be eradicated" will please you. Please point out where I have blindly defended or discredited anything. I have admitted that there are many "primitive" practices that occur with frequency in Muslim countries. After reading about it, I don't believe that halal slaughter is one of them. In fact, it seems to me to be more humane then the current standards in our "civilized" nation. You're the one who refuses to look at any evidence that contradicts your position that stunning an animal prior to its slaughter means a pain-free death. Where is this evidence you speak of that you've put forth for that assertion?

[sandinista! 1,816]

superfluous If it was to be replicated on yourself, which method would you prefer? The thought that not stunning the animals somehow makes it holier is downright retarded.

you still didn't answer the question about why your ####### fit is limited to only one group of people whose beliefs prohibit stunning, when there are in fact two.

even assuming the stunning is done correctly, while the animal's motor neurons may be incapacitated by stunning, their sensory neurons can remain fully functional. there is absolutely, positively no way of ensuring that their's will be a pain free experience. but it certainly does hurt to be hit in the head with a bolt gun, or electrically shocked in the head, or gassed prior to having their throat slit. you have no idea what you are talking about here, do you? you're flailing all over the place, with not a shred of understanding the anatomical and physiological processes at work, and have your panties all in a wad over halal slaughter, but not a word of criticism for kosher method? hmm...

[Jenn! 918]

There is actually, as you will not see the same sort of discussion in forums where people do not have a personal attachments to places.

You certainly will not see me defending something blindly that is clearly wrong, just because I have some link to it. Right is right, wrong is wrong; well to those of us that are not biased and civilized.

I really resent this. Yes, I have a "personal attachment". That does not mean that I cannot look at things objectively. I have many problems with religion and religious practices, including those in Islam, and I voice those opinions. I think the bias is on your side, where you immediately dismiss someone's views if you think they have a "personal attachment".

[IndigoSkies 168]

Perhaps they should remain in the Middle East and prop up that region instead. After all, the GDP of the entire Middle East is $1.6 Trillion. Take out Israel and the oil of the equation and the region offers nothing. Now in comparison, Australia's GDP is $1 trillion.

Versus the countless studies that suggest otherwise. Once again, which of the two methods would you prefer to be used on yourself?

So that's it? That's your defense? You asked me for the study and I not only gave you the name of the study by gave you the name of the researchers. Rather than looking up the research and actually the reading it, you decided to come back and post that they should remain in their country. You have no intention of tolerance or understanding. You're just mad that Muslims or a minority group appears to be doing better than whatever group you belong into.

Mexico has a higher GDP than Australia. Yet life in Australia is so much better than in Mexico. So your argument of having a bigger GDP is somehow better doesn't bode very well. I'll wait for you to make another outrageous claim. And I'll refute it again until I tire of your asinine antics.

Edited October 7, 2010 by IndigoSkies

[IndigoSkies 168]

The only things PETA should do anywhere are STFU and disband!

PETA should rename itself. There's too much stigma attached to the name PETA by unreasonable baby boomers. While they change the name, they should also change their charter to make sure it allows for slaughtering animals for food. But that doesn't mean we should be cruel to animals. We can be kind to speechless animals. For that, there being an advocacy group is a good idea.

[Heracles 417]

you still didn't answer the question about why your ####### fit is limited to only one group of people whose beliefs prohibit stunning, when there are in fact two.

even assuming the stunning is done correctly, while the animal's motor neurons may be incapacitated by stunning, their sensory neurons can remain fully functional. there is absolutely, positively no way of ensuring that their's will be a pain free experience. but it certainly does hurt to be hit in the head with a bolt gun, or electrically shocked in the head, or gassed prior to having their throat slit. you have no idea what you are talking about here, do you? you're flailing all over the place, with not a shred of understanding the anatomical and physiological processes at work, and have your panties all in a wad over halal slaughter, but not a word of criticism for kosher method? hmm...

We are not discussing kosher here, we are discussing Halal versus the civilized world. Fact is that stunning an animal renders them unconscious or dead, hence why the rest of us use this method - end of story.

[IndigoSkies 168]

We are not discussing kosher here, we are discussing Halal versus the civilized world. Fact is that stunning an animal renders them unconscious or dead, hence why the rest of us use this method - end of story.

Kosher and Halal methods are pretty much the same thing. The reason you refuse to acknowledge this is because you're going to have to call Jewish culture uncivilized. That's probably not something you are willing to do because then you'd really be called out for being a xenophobe.

The reason your civilized world uses stun gun is because it's more efficient. It's less costly and robots can do it. Whereas, both halal and kosher require a person to do it. A person can only slaughter so many animals an hour compared to hundreds and hundreds by industrial robots.

[Heracles 417]

I really resent this. Yes, I have a "personal attachment". That does not mean that I cannot look at things objectively. I have many problems with religion and religious practices, including those in Islam, and I voice those opinions. I think the bias is on your side, where you immediately dismiss someone's views if you think they have a "personal attachment".

Well not you in particular, as I think you are generally objective. However, there are many many on here who will defend something at any cost because their spouse is from there. No names of course _{cough cough h-l and other LA members}.

I've just never been one of those types people. I will not, for example, scold Halal but turn a blind eye to my own people doing the equivalent. I also do not play the not all do it feel good game, when there clearly is a problem. I accept the problem and want to deal with it.

Kosher and Halal methods are pretty much the same thing. The reason you refuse to acknowledge this is because you're going to have to call Jewish culture uncivilized. That's probably not something you are willing to do because then you'd really be called out for being a xenophobe.

The reason your civilized world uses stun gun is because it's more efficient. It's less costly and robots can do it. Whereas, both halal and kosher require a person to do it. A person can only slaughter so many animals an hour compared to hundreds and hundreds by industrial robots.

The Jewish religion was not fabricated err 'founded' in the 6th Century, it has been around for thousands of years. Therefore, such practices from back then are understandable.

[Jenn! 918]

The Jewish religion was not fabricated err 'founded' in the 6th Century, it has been around for thousands of years. Therefore, such practices from back then are understandable.

Come on now, this has to be like the worst justification ever. Didn't you just get finished saying something about right being right and wrong being wrong?