So Campbell decide to make halal products...

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  On 10/7/2010 at 7:21 PM, IndigoSkies said:

... these methods ensure the animals are treated fairly and your food is treated with properly.

I love food that is treated with properly. But it's extremely important, given the sensitive nature of properly, to do so properly.

[IndigoSkies 168]

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:15 PM, Heracles said:

There has to come a point where civilized people realize these practices are primitive, which raises another question on its own. Heck, progress is the same reason we do not sacrifice animals any more; well those of us civilized do not. /Time for Islam to be brought out of the 6th century and into the 21st century. After all, actions speak louder than the rhetoric.

You do realise that animal sacrificed by Muslims are eaten by the person who sacrificed it and a portion of it is distributed to poor and one portion to relatives? In fact, A Muslims family only sacrifice one animal a year. The meat is divided into 3 parts. One part goes to the family, one to poor and needy, and one to relatives and friends. It's not like Jewish/Christian/Hindu sacrifice where the animals is left to rot or burned.

Any other time Muslims slaughter animals is for food. This is done by everyone regardless of being Muslims or not. How else would you get your juicy streak if some cow aren't killed. The reason Muslims recite prayers before slaughtering animal is because they are behing humble for taking a life. They thank Allah for providing the food and almost apologise to the animal for taking its life for food.

Unless you can yourself stop eating meat and stop all forms of animal slaughter, you have no grounds to criticise Muslims for sacrificing animals and then using the animal as food.

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  On 10/7/2010 at 7:30 PM, IndigoSkies said:

...apologise to the animal for taking its life for food.

[Heracles 417]

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:22 PM, Jenn! said:

I think you're applying this principle to the wrong practice though. If you read about it, there's really nothing about halal slaughter that is primitive.

In fact, I think you'll find that many of the practices that you find primitive that you associate with Islam, are actually not part of Islam at all. So maybe Islam doesn't need to be modernized, but certainly many cultural practices should be.

You have skirted how animals are killed using Halal, in comparison to western methods.

It's nice that some here attempt to make Islam seem as peaceful as the next religion but unfortunately reality does not seem to agree with this opinion. The treatment of animals is just another example of it.

[Heracles 417]

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:30 PM, IndigoSkies said:

Any other time Muslims slaughter animals is for food. This is done by everyone regardless of being Muslims or not. How else would you get your juicy streak if some cow aren't killed. The reason Muslims recite prayers before slaughtering animal is because they are behing humble for taking a life. They thank Allah for providing the food and almost apologise to the animal for taking its life for food.

Unless you can yourself stop eating meat and stop all forms of animal slaughter, you have no grounds to criticise Muslims for sacrificing animals and then using the animal as food.

Yes thank you Captain obvious for illustrating that animals are killed to be consumed. However, civilization has come a long way from just slaughtering them. The civilized world now stuns them, so that they are under no pain when they are killed.

[Darnell 8,479]

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:15 PM, Heracles said:

There has to come a point where civilized people realize these practices are primitive, which raises another question on its own. Heck, progress is the same reason we do not sacrifice animals any more; well those of us civilized do not.

Time for Islam to be brought out of the 6th century and into the 21st century. After all, actions speak louder than the rhetoric.

No No No.

At the end of Ramadan, each year -

millions of LIVE Australian Sheep,

that have been bought/sold/sent around the world

are slaughtered .

It's big business.

And you, as an Australian, seem to be categorically denying yer knowledge of this business.

It's HUGE for Australia.

If you 'had a piece of the action', you'd know about this.

I'm thinking more and more, you really didn't have any 'landed property' with 'sheep on it'

when you were growing up. Also, you apparently didn't have any friends who offered to sell you,

once you became an adult, an 'interest' or 'share' in a sheep farm. That sucks, really, as only 'friends' offer their 'friends' these types of investment deals. Does that mean you didn't have these types of friends?

IF you did, you'd know all about this 'annual sheep migration'.

No No, this isn't a personal attack - I'm just confused by yer supposed lack of knowledge about this.

Sheep export, sheep slaughter for Ramadan, is huge business for Australia.

Mega, Mondo Huge. I challenge you to find the data and make stats from the Australian Sheep Export Gov Office.

What's up?

Edited October 7, 2010 by Darnell

[IndigoSkies 168]

  On 10/7/2010 at 6:38 PM, Heracles said:

I didn't ask nor mention how it's killed here or any other civilized country, I wanted to know how animals are killed under halal. Evidently they are treated just as well [lack of] as humans by that group.

The most common method is by slicing the throat to dismember the jugular vain. Studies have shown animals die much more comfortably then by having air gun spiked into their brain. It's definitely better than electrocuting the animal. Air gun and electrocution both leaves the animal alive for minutes upon minutes.

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  On 10/7/2010 at 7:36 PM, Heracles said:

Yes thank you Captain obvious for illustrating that animals are killed to be consumed. However, civilization has come a long way from just slaughtering them. The civilized world now stuns them, so that they are under no pain when they are killed.

I've posted about this before, but I once watched a halal execution of a goat when I lived in India. The animal screams, sounds like a human female.

[sandinista! 1,816]

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:32 PM, Heracles said:

You have skirted how animals are killed using Halal, in comparison to western methods.

It's nice that some here attempt to make Islam seem as peaceful as the next religion but unfortunately reality does not seem to agree with this opinion. The treatment of animals is just another example of it.

the methodology is the same the utter majority of the time, minus the superfluous stunning. and why aren't you having the same ####### fit over kosher slaughter when IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME?

  Quote

# Cattle (mostly steers and heifers, some cows, and even fewer bulls) are received by truck or rail from a ranch, farm, or feedlot.

# Cattle are herded into holding pens.

# Cattle are rendered unconscious by applying an electric shock of 300 volts and 2 amps to the back of the head, effectively stunning the animal, or by use of a captive bolt pistol to the front of the cow's head (a pneumatic or cartridge-fired captive bolt). Swine can be rendered unconscious by CO2/inert gas stunning. (This step is prohibited under strict application of Halal and Kashrut codes.)

# Animals are hung upside down by both of their hind legs on the processing line.

# The carotid artery and jugular vein are severed with a knife, blood drains, causing death through exsanguination.

# The head is removed, as well as front and rear feet. Prior to hide removal, care is taken to cut around the digestive tract to prevent fecal contamination later in the process.

# The hide/skin is removed by down pullers, side pullers and fisting off the pelt (sheep and goats). Hides can also be removed by laying the carcase on a cradle and skinning with a knife.

# The internal organs are removed and inspected for internal parasites and signs of disease. The viscera are separated for inspection from the heart and lungs, referred to as the "pluck." Livers are separated for inspection, tongues are dropped or removed from the head, and the head is sent down the line on the head hooks or head racks for inspection of the lymph nodes for signs of systemic disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterhouse

[Ban Hammer 13,965]

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:38 PM, \ said:

I've posted about this before, but I once watched a halal execution of a goat when I lived in India. The animal screams, sounds like a human female.

so you're saying peta should be protesting in india?

[Heracles 417]

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:38 PM, IndigoSkies said:

The most common method is by slicing the throat to dismember the jugular vain. Studies have shown animals die much more comfortably then by having air gun spiked into their brain. It's definitely better than electrocuting the animal. Air gun and electrocution both leaves the animal alive for minutes upon minutes.

Which studies are they? The ones from Mr Mustafa.

Considering Middle Eastern schools are renowned for jack ######, I think I'll accept those studies from the civilized world. You know, the same western countries you guys migrate to.

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  On 10/7/2010 at 7:39 PM, charles! said:

so you're saying peta should be protesting in india?

PETA members would all have a freakin heart attack if they spent some quality time, outside of the usual tourist traps, in India.

[Jenn! 918]

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:36 PM, Heracles said:

Yes thank you Captain obvious for illustrating that animals are killed to be consumed. However, civilization has come a long way from just slaughtering them. The civilized world now stuns them, so that they are under no pain when they are killed.

This is where you're wrong. I have not skirted the issue on what halal slaughter means. No, they do not stun the animal prior to slaughter. But you are not correct that stunning means that the animals don't suffer when killed.

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:40 PM, Heracles said:

Which studies are they? The ones from Mr Mustafa.

Considering Middle Eastern schools are renowned for jack ######, I think I'll accept those studies from the civilized world. You know, the same western countries you guys migrate to.

It appears that it is impossible to have a civilized discussion with you. Am I surprised?

[Heracles 417]

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:38 PM, sandinista! said:

the methodology is the same the utter majority of the time, minus the superfluous stunning. and why aren't you having the same ####### fit over kosher slaughter when IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME?

superfluous If it was to be replicated on yourself, which method would you prefer? The thought that not stunning the animals somehow makes it holier is downright retarded.

[Darnell 8,479]

  On 10/7/2010 at 7:40 PM, Heracles said:

Which studies are they? The ones from Mr Mustafa.

Have you shopped at Mustafa in Singapore? I hope that's the Mustafa yer writing about -

That place is HUGE ! YOu can buy a sheep for annual Ramadan sacrifice, through them, if you need to,

but

it comes on special ship from Australia.