Big Labor, Not Tea Party, Is Workers' Worst Enemy

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Minimum wage should be outlawed.

+nope

[Pooky 3,828]

Ah, here ya go, Pooky. You're either a tool or an enabler to such smear tactics ...

All that typing and you missed one little thing ... any semblance of evidence to refute the accusations of actual voter fraud taking place.

Instead, you throw out a personal insult, your usual opening, then proceed to post a hack and slash piece against the people responsible for bringing the evidence to light, as per usual going after the messengers when you have nothing with which to go after the message.

Is your slash piece accurate? Parts of it may well be. Is it exclusive to the Tea Party? Evidently not. Is it a smear piece by Texas Kaos? Absolutely. Does your accusation above make you a hypocrite. Definitely. Is it relevant to the accusation of voter fraud. No.

When I looked the story up yesterday, one thing struck me. A multitude of conservative blogs were carrying the piece, but the only news organisation I found covering it was Fox News, which is never a good sign. None of the other news organisations were saying a thing. More telling was that no-one was trying to refute the allegations, not even the liberal bloggers. If there was a way of refuting the allegations, it would have been out there. But it wasn't. I'll wait to see the outcome of the investigation before I make up my mind, but right now it looks like these allegations have substance.

So, if you want to refute this allegation of voter fraud, come back when you have the evidence to back you up.

Oh, and I almost forgot this gem of yours.

Second, these are the same kinds of attempts to dump voters off of voter rolls, typically in poorer, black areas.

Way to throw out the red herring that is the racism card. Cry wolf too many times and when there is actual racism, people may dismiss it as another false alarm. You see, the only voters getting disenfranchised and dumped off the rolls here are the imaginary ones.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Some unions have done good, some bad. Unions can't be lumped all together...every union is different. Yes I have been given fliers by the union on suggested candidates, but nobody has held a gun to my head and told me how to vote. I am a member of two unions myself.... the Iron Workers union, and also the Plumbers and Pipe Fitters union. I have seen work done by non - union hands when it comes to these skilled trades, and it comes down to "you get what you pay for". Southern states are notorious for paying low wages to these hands, and usually the work comes out shabby.

If Repubs had their way, there would be no minimum wage law, and illegal aliens would be sucking up all the work through ####### happy temp agency's like "Labor Ready".

[Pooky 3,828]

Some unions have done good, some bad. Unions can't be lumped all together...every union is different. Yes I have been given fliers by the union on suggested candidates, but nobody has held a gun to my head and told me how to vote. I am a member of two unions myself.... the Iron Workers union, and also the Plumbers and Pipe Fitters union. I have seen work done by non - union hands when it comes to these skilled trades, and it comes down to "you get what you pay for". Southern states are notorious for paying low wages to these hands, and usually the work comes out shabby.

If Repubs had their way, there would be no minimum wage law, and illegal aliens would be sucking up all the work through ####### happy temp agency's like "Labor Ready".

Do you believe that construction projects run under a PLA result in a better standard of work?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Do you believe that construction projects run under a PLA result in a better standard of work?

Better standard of work....who knows? It's seems so far though that PLA's cut cost in a fair and agreeable manor.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Why_Me

[Pooky 3,828]

Better standard of work....who knows? It's seems so far though that PLA's cut cost in a fair and agreeable manor.

Wrong. A PLA will add 25 - 30% to a construction project, more if it's in a heavily unionised big city like New York. As an estimator, that's the standard weighting, having been CM on both open-shop and PLA projects.

Then there's the harassment you get running an open-shop construction project, with OSHA receiving anonymous tip-offs every other day (don't you just love Boston?), the "practical jokes" that happen to the equipment and transport, union-signatory subcontractors refusing to bid on open-shop projects because they are scared to upset the local unions and the bids you lose because your competitor is signatory to a union themselves.

Construction unions are among the worst for dragging the reputation of the unions through the mud in this country. They are there to keep their members employed and working, but the methods used by some can be akin to plain thuggery.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think you are full of sh*t Peejay!

and just to prove it, we should allow ALL workers in ALL jobs in ALL states the absolute freemdom to choose to be in a union or not without affecting their employment. You'll see! When all those union members VOLUNTARILY join a union...what will you say then? Eh? Smart guy?

Yea! Pro choice!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Some unions have done good, some bad. Unions can't be lumped all together...every union is different. Yes I have been given fliers by the union on suggested candidates, but nobody has held a gun to my head and told me how to vote. I am a member of two unions myself.... the Iron Workers union, and also the Plumbers and Pipe Fitters union. I have seen work done by non - union hands when it comes to these skilled trades, and it comes down to "you get what you pay for". Southern states are notorious for paying low wages to these hands, and usually the work comes out shabby.

If Repubs had their way, there would be no minimum wage law, and illegal aliens would be sucking up all the work through ####### happy temp agency's like "Labor Ready".

Allowing workers choice will IMPROVE unions. It will make them more powerful by giving them the bully pulpit of free choice...right? Yeah, I am pro-union and pro-choice! Let workers choose now!

[luckytxn 2,265]

perhaps they didn't pressure you because they knew you'd vote the way they wanted you to vote?

my neighbor's union called him prior to the 2008 elections and told him to vote for obama. like a good union member, he did.

Or the last union shop I delivered to up in Wisconsin that had the political pamphlets up on the wall reminding the voters to vote Socialist. I especially loved the hit pamphlets up on the wall saying why the other man running for office was such a bad person. I loved when I worked for a company that was a union shop and they demanded and got a day off to attend a rally.......with pay of course.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Allowing workers choice will IMPROVE unions. It will make them more powerful by giving them the bully pulpit of free choice...right? Yeah, I am pro-union and pro-choice! Let workers choose now!

I agree. Having a closed shop is knowing I am working for a shop that will not be there at some time in the future. Always have open shop and if you want to join the union then fine but do not ever force a worker to join the union. Of course the union have paid heavily to make sure that many states up north have laws to require all shops to be union and that has helped the southern states a lot as many companies are now looking to get away and look southward.

Also having been in business for many years and hiring both shop and non shop I can say from experience that the work and quality was no better from a union shop but always the union shop cost more anyway. The best way to insure one got quality work was by word of mouth and reputation and that was what I learned to rely on. Very seldom was a union shop mentioned.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I agree. Having a closed shop is knowing I am working for a shop that will not be there at some time in the future. Always have open shop and if you want to join the union then fine but do not ever force a worker to join the union. Of course the union have paid heavily to make sure that many states up north have laws to require all shops to be union and that has helped the southern states a lot as many companies are now looking to get away and look southward.

Also having been in business for many years and hiring both shop and non shop I can say from experience that the work and quality was no better from a union shop but always the union shop cost more anyway. The best way to insure one got quality work was by word of mouth and reputation and that was what I learned to rely on. Very seldom was a union shop mentioned.

I am just bumping this up. Seems like we had a good debate going until someone (ME) mentioned freedom of choice. Obvioulsy I support a woman's right to choose to join a union or not...a man's also. Where are all my pro-choce friends to support. Lets GIVE unions the ultimatum that freedom of choice would give them. Let's give them the POWER they would have if their membership was entirely 100% voluntary.

Let's hear it pro-choicers!

(why do I hear crickets chirping?)

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I am just bumping this up. Seems like we had a good debate going until someone (ME) mentioned freedom of choice. Obvioulsy I support a woman's right to choose to join a union or not...a man's also. Where are all my pro-choce friends to support. Lets GIVE unions the ultimatum that freedom of choice would give them. Let's give them the POWER they would have if their membership was entirely 100% voluntary.

Let's hear it pro-choicers!

(why do I hear crickets chirping?)

any other union loving liberals out there? Helloooooooooooooooo!

[Dan J 277]

I am just bumping this up. Seems like we had a good debate going until someone (ME) mentioned freedom of choice. Obvioulsy I support a woman's right to choose to join a union or not...a man's also. Where are all my pro-choce friends to support. Lets GIVE unions the ultimatum that freedom of choice would give them. Let's give them the POWER they would have if their membership was entirely 100% voluntary.

Let's hear it pro-choicers!

(why do I hear crickets chirping?)

Of course, companies cannot in any way interfere with union organization, directly or indirectly. As well as cannot discriminate in hiring based on union membership. Without that, unions would have no power, but I have a feeling that would be the way you want it.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I am just bumping this up. Seems like we had a good debate going until someone (ME) mentioned freedom of choice. Obvioulsy I support a woman's right to choose to join a union or not...a man's also. Where are all my pro-choce friends to support. Lets GIVE unions the ultimatum that freedom of choice would give them. Let's give them the POWER they would have if their membership was entirely 100% voluntary.

Let's hear it pro-choicers!

(why do I hear crickets chirping?)

You do have choice as I mentioned in the other thread where you brought this up. You can work for another company or go into a different field. If you are applying for a job where the company recognizes the union, you are well aware of that contractual relationship before you are hired. No one is forcing you to work there. And even peejay has pointed out that he used to work under a union but chooses not to now. You do have a choice.