For Followers of Christianity: What does it mean to you personally, to be a Christian?

[BishopM 114]

My husband was told by Baptists that he was going to H3ll when he was just a kid because he went to a Catholic school, and at the time, that really scared and upset him. I've been told that because I WANT to believe in Christianity but don't think I'm able to, I'm going to H3ll too, even if I live a good life and help others.

These are just a couple of drops in the ocean of 'Reasons I Cannot Be Part of Organised Religion Again'.

Don't believe what these people have told you.

[BishopM 114]

I was raised Methodist but had to go to church with my Grandmother sometimes that was a Baptist church. After going sometimes with her after a few years and one night at church the preacher started a fire and brimstone type of sermon and then pointing me out he started saying how I was a sinner and going to hell as I was crippled and that was God punishment to me. He even used Jesus's own words from the bible. I was shaken to say the least and after the service my Grandmother refused to shake the preachers hand and told him he was wrong to do what he did and other words and we left. She told me that I was would not be going back to that church again. Since then I have seen a few other Baptist services and nothing like that again. No man can push me out of my faith but me alone.

BrotherTxn...I'm sorry you had this experience...someone should revoke that so-called-ministers talk show rites!

(seriously..that sux!) Blessings to you my Methodist Brother!

[luckytxn 2,264]

Brother Steve, sorry to step into this important post at the end of its life. There are two fundamental concepts which Christians follow when it comes to the conversation of 'who goes to Heaven', to be blunt. The two arguments are inclusivism vs. exclusivism. Catholics to the largest extent (and certainly in my viewpoint, and in your viewpoint) are 'inclusivists' whereas many fundamental Protestants are 'exclusivists'. I have written many papers on this topic because I am passionate, as you are, in the inclusivist viewpoint. To that extent, here are a few of my cheat sheet notes:

"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions [Hinduism, Buddism]. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. The Church therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men."

"The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself, merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes great pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgement when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting. "

"Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this Sacred Synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom."

RCC Catechism # 843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."

RCC Cat. # 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Well...you know...it is two cents...VJBishopM

Just curious. If someone is a non trinitarian and is thinking about converting to Catholicism but still feels he can't shake that trinitarian thing and immerse himself into the total belief should that person just not convert?

[BishopM 114]

Fear not Gemmie. Flying Spaghetti Monster accepts you, even if you don't believe in him.

... what does this even mean Brother Rob?

[BishopM 114]

Just curious. If someone is a non trinitarian and is thinking about converting to Catholicism but still feels he can't shake that trinitarian thing and immerse himself into the total belief should that person just not convert?

Excellent question.

With the Catholic Church, we don't necessarily subscribe to a 'big bang' approach to conversion, like many of the fundamentalist Churches subscribe to in recent years. I say this, as a Catholic person who has bachelor's degree in religion from a Protestant University, so it is not a critique but rather an honest appreciation of the polemics of faiths. Within the Catholic faith, we do believe that one grows into the faith through a lifeitme of observance and learning and faith, and quite honestly the Trinitiarian formula is one of the crucial theological cornerstones of our faith which can take time to understand, as is the same with the transubstantiation <hard to spell!> and of course the Epiclesis (also hard to spell!). Give the time and critique it honestly, but this should not stop one from being a Catholic because Catholicism = Universal...a growth in spirit over time, but we don't necessarily 'push' people into a 'make it or break it' moment of conversion like Protestants do. In fact, for years now I have taught the RCIA (Rite of Catholic Initiation) classes at Catholic Churches. The RCIA class is for people who want to learn more, and possibly convert to Catholicism. Its about a 9 month class...so, NO RUSH, because we believe people should know what they're doing before making a major faith decision...(I guess )

I'm not great at explaining this stuff...so I hope this helps....but if not, well, I gave it a shot!

BTW BrotherLucky, I sincerely love the way you speak so fondly of your wife. I see true love written all over your sentiments...its a beautiful thing to hear, especially on VJ!

Blessing!

VJB

[luckytxn 2,264]

BrotherTxn...I'm sorry you had this experience...someone should revoke that so-called-ministers talk show rites!

(seriously..that sux!) Blessings to you my Methodist Brother!

Thanks and special thanks for the blessings. We can never have enough of that. It was many years ago and many churches ago. My Grandmother talked to me about it afterwards and explained it was one man and I was no sinner. She was a Saint to me and taught me a lot. I try to live my life to where Her and my father would be proud of me and I am sure they are.

Also bless you my brother and all here.

Edited September 30, 2010 by luckytxn

[luckytxn 2,264]

Excellent question.

With the Catholic Church, we don't necessarily subscribe to a 'big bang' approach to conversion, like many of the fundamentalist Churches subscribe to in recent years. I say this, as a Catholic person who has bachelor's degree in religion from a Protestant University, so it is not a critique but rather an honest appreciation of the polemics of faiths. Within the Catholic faith, we do believe that one grows into the faith through a lifeitme of observance and learning and faith, and quite honestly the Trinitiarian formula is one of the crucial theological cornerstones of our faith which can take time to understand, as is the same with the transubstantiation <hard to spell!> and of course the Epiclesis (also hard to spell!). Give the time and critique it honestly, but this should not stop one from being a Catholic because Catholicism = Universal...a growth in spirit over time, but we don't necessarily 'push' people into a 'make it or break it' moment of conversion like Protestants do. In fact, for years now I have taught the RCIA (Rite of Catholic Initiation) classes at Catholic Churches. The RCIA class is for people who want to learn more, and possibly convert to Catholicism. Its about a 9 month class...so, NO RUSH, because we believe people should know what they're doing before making a major faith decision...(I guess )

I'm not great at explaining this stuff...so I hope this helps....but if not, well, I gave it a shot!

BTW BrotherLucky, I sincerely love the way you speak so fondly of your wife. I see true love written all over your sentiments...its a beautiful thing to hear, especially on VJ!

Blessing!

VJB

Many thanks for your time. I am looking into starting the RCIA classes already but unable to take them now as I am never home to attend them but found out that I can maybe take them online for now and when I am done working on the road to start the classes. I really do understand what you said even though you don't think you explained it you did so well. I have been going to a Catholic church now for quite awhile and I am very comfortable there and enjoy it very much. Nothing excites me more than to go with my wife to church and will be even more so now that she can take the offering since we married in the church last week. I have already planned on growing with the church but need time to adjust and last week went and prayed at my fathers grave to let him know what I plan on doing for my comfort more than anything. I now think he would be fine with the decision and am sure he is very happy with my wife.

Thanks also for noticing my happiness. I am very happy. I do joke around but we are both that way. I still can't understand why God has given me this last chance at happiness but plan on making it count and always pray and thank him for this opportunity given me. It is a wonderful God that takes someone that has given up at finding this happiness and blesses him with it.

Again Bless you brother Bishop and all here.

[BishopM 114]

Many thanks for your time. I am looking into starting the RCIA classes already but unable to take them now as I am never home to attend them but found out that I can maybe take them online for now and when I am done working on the road to start the classes. I really do understand what you said even though you don't think you explained it you did so well. I have been going to a Catholic church now for quite awhile and I am very comfortable there and enjoy it very much. Nothing excites me more than to go with my wife to church and will be even more so now that she can take the offering since we married in the church last week. I have already planned on growing with the church but need time to adjust and last week went and prayed at my fathers grave to let him know what I plan on doing for my comfort more than anything. I now think he would be fine with the decision and am sure he is very happy with my wife.

Thanks also for noticing my happiness. I am very happy. I do joke around but we are both that way. I still can't understand why God has given me this last chance at happiness but plan on making it count and always pray and thank him for this opportunity given me. It is a wonderful God that takes someone that has given up at finding this happiness and blesses him with it.

Again Bless you brother Bishop and all here.

Congratulations on your Holy Matrimony BrotherLuckytxn! BTW...I am also from Texas...so I am a LuckyTxn as well

In fact, your heartful story of your love for you wife, culminating in your obvious example of marrying her in the Church, reminds me of myself and the blessings I have received from my Angelic wife. Once AAm arrived in the USA, I asked her if she would like to go to RCIA and she was so excited to go...and I went to every class with her for 9 months and then for the culmination of the RCIA, she received the rites of Baptism, Confirmation, First Communion, and Holy Matrimony (to me!) all in the Easter Vigil Mass. In my opinion, that was the best day of my life, and cannot ever be topped...

Blessings to you and my prayers are with you (and the entire thread!) Mark

[Danno 1,228]

Just curious. If someone is a non trinitarian and is thinking about converting to Catholicism but still feels he can't shake that trinitarian thing and immerse himself into the total belief should that person just not convert?

Come on dude... the last thing this country needs is another half-hearted Catholic.

Faith is measured in steps, but a commitment is not.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Congratulations on your Holy Matrimony BrotherLuckytxn! BTW...I am also from Texas...so I am a LuckyTxn as well

In fact, your heartful story of your love for you wife, culminating in your obvious example of marrying her in the Church, reminds me of myself and the blessings I have received from my Angelic wife. Once AAm arrived in the USA, I asked her if she would like to go to RCIA and she was so excited to go...and I went to every class with her for 9 months and then for the culmination of the RCIA, she received the rites of Baptism, Confirmation, First Communion, and Holy Matrimony (to me!) all in the Easter Vigil Mass. In my opinion, that was the best day of my life, and cannot ever be topped...

Blessings to you and my prayers are with you (and the entire thread!) Mark

Most awesome that she did this for you and to be done during the Easter vigil mass is maybe the best part. We are both very Luckytxns and the best part is we know it.

I am looking forward now to my wife seeing me go through it. Life is blessed. Please take care and God bless everyone.

[Danno 1,228]

Lucky, I failed to congratulate you and thank you for sharing your wedding pics...... a great lookin couple you two are.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Lucky, I failed to congratulate you and thank you for sharing your wedding pics...... a great lookin couple you two are.

Many thanks Danno. I love how she made that dress and was stunned when I saw her in it. She could make anyone look good next to her. I am a lucky man.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Come on dude... the last thing this country needs is another half-hearted Catholic.

Faith is measured in steps, but a commitment is not.

It is more than a step for me and needs careful reflection and thought. It is a changing something that my Father and Grandmother has instilled in me and brought me up in. I love my wife very much and would do anything I can to make her happy but this needs to be done thoughtfully and willingly.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Brother Steve, sorry to step into this important post at the end of its life. There are two fundamental concepts which Christians follow when it comes to the conversation of 'who goes to Heaven', to be blunt. The two arguments are inclusivism vs. exclusivism. Catholics to the largest extent (and certainly in my viewpoint, and in your viewpoint) are 'inclusivists' whereas many fundamental Protestants are 'exclusivists'. I have written many papers on this topic because I am passionate, as you are, in the inclusivist viewpoint. To that extent, here are a few of my cheat sheet notes:

"The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions [Hinduism, Buddism]. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. The Church therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men."

"The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself, merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes great pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgement when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting. "

"Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this Sacred Synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom."

RCC Catechism # 843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."

RCC Cat. # 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Well...you know...it is two cents...VJBishopM

Great post, brother Mark! I had no idea about Muslims' devotion to Mary. My father would say, "Buddha is gift. Mohammad is gift. But Jesus is The Gift."