DS230 mental health question

[Gemmie 142]

Shirorisu, STOP POSTING MULTIPLE TIMES WITH QUESTIONS AND WORRISOME RAMBLINGS.

This thread was started by someone who is worried about something and she doesn't need your neurotic postings cluttering everything and making it seem worse than it is. You have Aspergers, she doesn't. She's looking at things broadly, you're examining every word under a microscope. And please stop yelling at everyone to 'stop telling people to tick 'yes' to the question' because NO ONE here has done that.

Angelheart, I think (and this is just me) it's OK for you to tick 'no' in your case. You've stated that it was a case of depression and self-harm that happened years ago, that you're 100% certain it will never occur again, and if you can get a doctor note to back that up, perfect. I interpret the question to ask if you have a mental disorder that will put you or others at risk, so if you feel you don't, then I would think it's fine to answer that way.

[Gemmie 142]

I never said you couldn't post in here, I said to stop posting multiple posts rambling on about your case. Why do you feel the need to make a point, then post again to make another point, then another post to freak out about how scared you are, etc. I brought up your Aspergers because your situation is completely different. You have a medical condition, the OP doesn't.

No one here hates you, lots of people have tried to help you in the past and you refused to listen. Instead you choose to ignore it and go on about something else that means you'll probably be inadmitted for anyway, and then go back to the original problem where you grossly over-exaggerate every dot made on any immigration form.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Certain unacceptable posts have been removed. No further thread derailment will be tolerated. Angelheart has received the necessary information and has arranged to consult a lawyer for confirmation. This topic is about her situation, not any one else's and responses should address her situation, and no one else's.

[HannahP 119]

Basically, if you choose "yes" to this, you'll need to provide a psychiatrist statement that you're not a danger to yourself or others. It's pretty easy (esp. since you seem very stable), although it can be expensive to get a second opinion if you don't already have a shrink willing to write something for you. Hubby did it with 3-4 visible self-harm healed scars and he was fine.

[Jadenjewel 9]

Hi,

On form Ds230 it asks:

a. a. An alien who has a communicable disease of public health significance; who has failed to present documentation of having received vaccinations in accordance with U.S. law; who has or has had a physical or mental disorder that poses or is likely to pose a threat to the safety or welfare of the alien or others; or who is a drug abuser or addict.

THAT POSES OR IS LIKELY TO POSE ..... IS IN THE CURRENT TENSE AND IS ASKING IF IT STILL POSES A THREAT, as you will see in the government circular, below.

Only you are able to answer this question. If you are in doubt ask your physician for clarification of your diagnosis. Do you feel you are a danger to yourself or others? If no, you have answered truthfully in my opinion and further questions may come up at your medical interview for which you can supply documentation from your current Dr. and if needed go for another medical exam at the request of the US immigration Dr.

I too in the past suffered from depression, and was incorrectly diagnosed. With proper treatment I have had no further problems. I do not take any anti-depressants and so I am not under treatment for depression. Unfortunately having a mental health illness is still viewed as it was in the dark ages. It is nothing to be ashamed of. In this world we live in there are many things to be depressed about. The government recognizes this as seen in this circular:

EFFECTS OF INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iii)AND INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iv) (CT:VISA-1452; 07-19-2010)

a. The medical screening for physical and mental disorders with associated harmful behaviors and substance-related disorders for visa applicants is required by law and is an essential component of the medical evaluations of aliens. INA sections 212(a)(1)(A)(iii) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(A)(iii)) and 212(a)(1)(A)(iv) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(A)(iv)) provide grounds of ineligibility related to physical or mental disorders that affect behavior, and substance addiction or abuse.

b. The mere presence of a physical or mental disorder does not by itself render the applicant ineligible. Under the provisions of INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iii)(I) and (II), (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(A)(iii)(I) and (II)) in order to find an applicant ineligible, it must be determined that the applicant:

(1) Has a current physical or mental disorder with associated harmful behavior; or

(2) Has a past physical or mental disorder with associated harmful behavior if the harmful behavior is likely to recur or lead to other harmful behavior in the future.

c. Note that harmful behavior is not a relevant factor in rendering a determination of ineligibility under the provisions of INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iv) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(A)(iv)). Further, an immigrant visa (IV) waiver of inadmissibility is not available to an alien who is diagnosed with substance abuse or addiction.

For a Class "A" determination under Section INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iv) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(A)(iv)) for Drug (Substance) Abuse or Drug Addiction (Dependence), an applicant must meet current DSM diagnostic criteria for substance dependence or abuse with any of the specific substances listed in Schedules I through V of Section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act. Such a Class "A" medical determination by a panel physician, renders the applicant ineligible for a visa under INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iv) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(A)(iv)).

NOTE: An applicant that meets current DSM criteria for substance abuse or dependence for other substances, including alcohol, NOT listed in Schedules I through V of Section 202 of the Controlled Substance Act is not Class "A" (medical). However, if there is associated harmful behavior, the applicant may be classified as Class "A" and found inadmissible under INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iii)(I) and/or (II) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(A)(iii)(I) and/or (II)).

Substances used for clinical care in medical practice are not prohibited and do not represent substance abuse.

d. For cases previously refused under INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iii) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(A)(iii)) and INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iv) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(A)(iv)) due to a Class "A" medical finding:

(1) If the last refusal on the case was less than one year ago, send the applicant to the panel physician for a new medical examination to determine whether the Class "A" finding for physical and mental disorders with associated harmful behaviors and/or substance- related disorders still applies. A new medical is required, regardless of whether the previous exam has expired. If the applicant is found Class "B", overcome/waive the INA 212(a)(1)(a)(iii) or (iv) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(a)(iii) or (iv)) refusal and send a CLOK request. If the applicant is otherwise eligible, then you may issue the visa.

(2) If the last refusal on the case was more than one year ago, then the applicant must reapply for a visa, complete a new medical examination with a panel physician, and pay all applicable fees. If the applicant is found Class "B", then overcome/waive the INA 212(a)(1)(a)(iii) or (iv) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(1)(a)(iii) or (iv)) refusal and send a CLOK request. If the applicant is otherwise eligible, then you may issue the visa.

9 FAM 40.11 N11.1 Key Concepts of Mental Health

(CT:VISA-1452; 07-19-2010)

a. Physical and Mental Health Disorder Key Concepts:

(1) A physical disorder is a clinically diagnosed medical condition where the focus of attention is physical manifestations. Only medical conditions that are included in the current version of the World Health Organization's Manual of International Classification of Diseases (ICD) are considered for visa medical exams.

(2) Mental disorders are health conditions that are characterized by alterations in thinking, mood, or behavior (or some combination thereof). Only mental disorders that are included in the current version of the World Health Organization's Manual of International Classification of Diseases (ICD) are considered for visa medical exams.

(3) Harmful behavior is defined as an action associated with a physical or mental disorder that is or has caused:

(a) Serious psychological or physical injury to the alien or to others (e.g., suicide attempt or pedophilia);

(b) A serious threat to the health or safety of the alien or others

(e.g., driving while intoxicated or verbally threatening to kill someone); and

© Major property damage.

(4) Current harmful behavior is defined as currently engaging in harmful behavior that has continuously occurred and seems ongoing.

(5) A determination of future harmful behavior must be made if the applicant presently is or has in the past engaged in harmful behavior associated with a physical or mental disorder, and the panel physician must evaluate whether the harmful behavior is likely to recur. Many factors enter into this determination of classification, and the decision requires clinical judgment.

NOTE: Only harmful behavior that is associated with a physical or mental disorder is relevant for the classification of visa ineligibility. Neither harmful behavior nor the physical or mental disorder alone causes an alien to be medically ineligible.

In general:

(1) To establish any substance-related diagnosis, the examining physician must document the pattern or use of the substance and behavioral, physical, and psychological effects associated with the use or cessation of use of that substance;

(2) Substance dependence, either on alcohol or other psychoactive substances, is characterized by compulsive long-term use of the substance, despite significant substance-related physical, psychological, social, occupational, or behavioral problems;

(3) Substance abuse is characterized by a pattern of recurrent substance use despite adverse consequences or impairment;

(4) The current version of the DSM defines sustained, full remission as a period of at least 12 months during which no substance use or associated harmful behavior have occurred. The panel physician has discretion to use their clinical judgment to determine if 12 months is an acceptable period of time for an individual applicant to demonstrate sustained, full remission. Remission must be considered in two contexts:

(a.) general mental disorders; and

(b.) substance-related disorders.

(1) For general mental disorders, the determination of remission must be made based on the assessment of associated harmful behavior, either current or a history of harmful behavior judged likely to recur, and DSM criteria. This includes substance-related disorders for those substances, including alcohol, not listed in Schedules I through V of Section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act.

(2) For substance-related disorders for those substances listed in Schedule I through V of Section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act, the determination of remission must be made based on applicant's substance use and DSM criteria.

The practical significance for diagnosis of remission is that applicants who are or have been determined to be Class "A" for drug abuse or addiction for those substances listed in Schedule I through V of Section 202 of the Controlled Substance Act are not eligible for a waiver and must complete the time period for sustained, full remission before reapplying for admission.

HOPEFULLY THIS INFO WILL HELP. IT TAKES COURAGE TO SEEK HELP FOR DEPRESSION MANY WHO NEED IT DON'T AND THAT'S WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM!!!!

That is why people like Katie Couric and others are speaking out about depression.

All the best to you

[Angelheart1962 6]

Thank you so much everybody for your replies. I am still seeing immigration lawyer today and will see post what he has advised.

[RICARDO4EVA2 194]

And now you all have me worried, again.

I'm going to call the US embassy advice line in the morning, again, even though it costs a lot of money.

I have a fortunate situation in that the depression that is on my record is not in relation to my diagnosis and occurred prior to diagnosis.

How you answer these questions a lot of the time is based on interpretation, and you always worry afterwards. The I-94 on the plane, the wording of it is blunt "do you suffer from a mental or physical disorder?" Who DOESN'T? There are a myriad physical and mental disorders, I mean do you have to disclose things like skin conditions? When I rang the US embassy in reference to the I-94 I was advised my mental disorder was not something that usually needed to be disclosed. Yet you could argue that ticking "no" was a lie. There's a lot of grey areas here and to be honest I think i'm getting a lawyer re. this whole thing.

ANGELHEART IF YOU TICK YES THOUGH YOU ARE INELIGIBLE IT SAYS RIGHT THERE ON THE DS-230!

Seriously you may have been really, really lucky in getting an understanding adjudicator. If you look at the US immigration LAW that all these questions, with all their different wording applies to, it clearly states that only aliens de3emed a danger to others or themselves are in need of a waiver. If you look at the manual for use by the doctor at the medical, it refers to this law and why people with no/very low chance of recurrance are not inadmissable. IMO it's really dangerous to advise people to tick "yes" on the DS-230. It means waiver, outright. It could mean a ban for misrepresentation. You may well have had an adjudicator who could recognise the poor wording of the question and realise you interpreted it as meaning something different from similar questions on the I-94 etc, but will we all be so lucky? Probably not.

Why are you soo worried...?

[RICARDO4EVA2 194]

I agree, you are warned not to lie...say the truth...you went thru a bad time and now you are fine.

I beg to thrid this.. So I agree.. no Lying.

[Angelheart1962 6]

Hi folks, saw the lawyer on Wednesday and this is what he said - he thinks I can safely say 'no' to on the DS230 form, because I do not pose a risk to myself or anyone else now or in the future.

He did also say that when it comes to the medical, I should tell the doctor about my past self harm, bearing in mind that only a past history of harmful behaviour that is LIKELY TO RECUR is grounds for inadmissibility. This is where it is a good idea to have a recent letter from my doctor stating my self harm was 5 years ago and a one-off and unlikely to happen again.

All in all I'm happy with that answer, so that is what I am going to do.

Thanks for all the responses everyone!

[RICARDO4EVA2 194]

ok koool, goood deal.