Ukraine power struggle

[1HappyGuy 45]

Ukraine's president Viktor Yanukovich is trying to revert to reforms passed six years ago which brought about the Orange Revolution and led to his defeat as President in 2004.

http://gulfnews.com/news/world/other-world/yanukovich-moves-to-tighten-his-control-1.686630

It looks like he's trying to make Ukraine's government more like other FSU's with the president having all the power. This does not seem to be very democratic for Ukraine.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ukraine's president Viktor Yanukovich is trying to revert to reforms passed six years ago which brought about the Orange Revolution and led to his defeat as President in 2004.

http://gulfnews.com/news/world/other-world/yanukovich-moves-to-tighten-his-control-1.686630

It looks like he's trying to make Ukraine's government more like other FSU's with the president having all the power. This does not seem to be very democratic for Ukraine.

I cannot say I am surprised, nor is it bad news to the people that voted for him. I imagine they expected this. I really hope they will not have a major decline of relations with the US and impose visas again, I think not. Opening up Ukraine to US and Europe has been beneficial to them monetarily. It could allow Ukrainians to have dual citizenship eventually (the ban against that has to be declared by the President, which Yushenko did, Yanukovich could rescind that)

[1HappyGuy 45]

My wife has been so busy studying that she hasn't kept up with Ukraine news. She told me that Yanukovich is losing support from this home region because of some of this policies. It is pretty obvious this attempt to change the rules is his way of insuring his power.

It seems that the problems aren't just for Ukraine and Belarus. I just spotted this article concerning Russia and the mayor of Moscow. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100928/ts_nm/us_russia_moscow_mayor

Looks like there are still some people that are looking for democracy in Russia.

[1HappyGuy 45]

Well, its official as of October 1, 2010. President Yanukovich has overturned the very constitutional controls he fought for after his defeat in 2004, Orange Revolution. Now the president of Ukraine has complete power and the constitution reverts back to the way it was in 1996. This is a dark time for democracy and the free people of Ukraine.

[slim 1,525]

This is a dark time for democracy and the free people of Ukraine.

Dark times for democracy = conditions ripe for revolution.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well, its official as of October 1, 2010. President Yanukovich has overturned the very constitutional controls he fought for after his defeat in 2004, Orange Revolution. Now the president of Ukraine has complete power and the constitution reverts back to the way it was in 1996. This is a dark time for democracy and the free people of Ukraine.

I was there for the Orange Revolution, such that it was. I have to say I was very disappointed at the ultimate results and falied to see, 5 years later, what exactly, had changed. Most of the Ukrainian people agreed and voted Yanukovich back in. I do not think anyone had any illusions about what he would do. I am not surprised at any developments so far.

Ukraine in 2003 and 2004 was not a "dark place" and was not any more enlightened in 2005 that I could tell. The whole thing with ending visas and opening a consulate there was simply "payback" for doing George Bush's bidding (The Orange Revolution was bought and paid for in case you weren't aware) It was Bush's major desire (one could call it a "hard on") to place US missiles in former Soviet territory. Except for a few in the central Asian Republics, it hasn't happened yet and those former Republics are simply for sale to the highest bidder anyway.

Ukraine is as completely corrupt as it ever was and as long as the former communists are still around, it will stay that way. It will take another few generations to make a noticeable difference. It wasn't until Gorbachev, for example, that Stalin actually lost control of the USSR. It took nearly 40 years until someone could make meaningklful changes without one of Stalin's henchmen stepping on his neck.

[Tnic 5]

Ukraine is as completely corrupt as it ever was and as long as the former communists are still around, it will stay that way. It will take another few generations to make a noticeable difference. It wasn't until Gorbachev, for example, that Stalin actually lost control of the USSR. It took nearly 40 years until someone could make meaningklful changes without one of Stalin's henchmen stepping on his neck.

I hear you about the communists! We get propaganda from "The party of the people" a couple times a week in the post box. And THEY flaunt their wealth in the people's faces worse than the elected officials.

Ironically a very nice lady ended communications with me because I wanted to come here to live. She hates the president.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Tnic

[1HappyGuy 45]

Ironically a very nice lady ended communications with me because I wanted to come here to live. She hates the president.

Does that surprise you? Although I don't keep track of such things, I think that women listing themselves on MOB websites has probably risen in recent months. We still have a pretty good reputation as where to live, even if not necessarily warranted.

My brother in law moved back to Ukraine after living in Russia for many years and was hoping for a better life. Now he thinks that the only thing that has improved is his weather. He moved from Ekaterinaburg to Odessa.

[Tnic 5]

Does that surprise you? Although I don't keep track of such things, I think that women listing themselves on MOB websites has probably risen in recent months. We still have a pretty good reputation as where to live, even if not necessarily warranted.

My brother in law moved back to Ukraine after living in Russia for many years and was hoping for a better life. Now he thinks that the only thing that has improved is his weather. He moved from Ekaterinaburg to Odessa.

I did surprise me at the time. It was a first for me. Until then everyone I wrote to was thrilled they wouldn't have to move.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Ukraine's president Viktor Yanukovich is trying to revert to reforms passed six years ago which brought about the Orange Revolution and led to his defeat as President in 2004.

http://gulfnews.com/news/world/other-world/yanukovich-moves-to-tighten-his-control-1.686630

It looks like he's trying to make Ukraine's government more like other FSU's with the president having all the power. This does not seem to be very democratic for Ukraine.

Putin, Yanukovich, and Lukashenko. So much for the "Rus" people and getting it together. Yanukovich and the rest of the descendants of imported brainwashed peasant slaves from Russia in Southeast Ukraine would rather be on their knees praising Tsar Putin and Stalin than they would trying make a Ukraine that could actually become a part of mainstream Europe. Democracy for any of the three Rus country's is a long long way from happening. Hopefully Western Ukraine makes a clean break of it and joins the EU.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I cannot say I am surprised, nor is it bad news to the people that voted for him. I imagine they expected this. I really hope they will not have a major decline of relations with the US and impose visas again, I think not. Opening up Ukraine to US and Europe has been beneficial to them monetarily. It could allow Ukrainians to have dual citizenship eventually (the ban against that has to be declared by the President, which Yushenko did, Yanukovich could rescind that)

Allow Ukrainians to have dual citizenship? And how would this effect the brainwashed Russian nationalist in regards to their claims on the Crim ? Let's not forget what happened to Georgia when Tsar Putin decided to hand out Russian passports like they were candy to just about everyone living in South Ossetian and Abkhazia.

[1HappyGuy 45]

I don't think the actions of Tsar Putin are missed by anyone,especially those that want an independent and free Ukraine.

As far as western Ukraine splitting from the rest, that would probably be devastating economically for the west as they still depend on the government for so much.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Allow Ukrainians to have dual citizenship? And how would this effect the brainwashed Russian nationalist in regards to their claims on the Crim ? Let's not forget what happened to Georgia when Tsar Putin decided to hand out Russian passports like they were candy to just about everyone living in South Ossetian and Abkhazia.

And how does NOT allowing dual citizenship relate to freedom? How would you feel if the US issued the same order today for US citizens? Safer? Putin and Russia violated the soveriegnty of Georgia...period. The mumbly mouthed stuff about Russian citizens was an excuse. Ukraine's response was a weak one, in any possible effect, but powerful in restricting rights of "free people". Putins move was clearly a warning to a former Republic that got too friendly with the USA. And one calculated to show our "friends" just how much we would do for our friends. Bush's response was, to Russian ears "Yeah, well you better not cross THIS line!"

Yushenko never produced what he promised...his fault. Yushenko jumped right in the sack with the USA. Rather than gaining true freedom, they had just exchanged "puppet masters". The Orange Revolution was never anything more than George Bush twisting Putin's nose and saying "nyah, nyah!" It got Ukrainians, those PEOPLE that live there, nothing but trouble with Russia for 5 years and created "problems" internally that no one even knew existed until then. George Bush never lost HIS supply of gas in the winter. Without their US benefactor (not sure Obama could find Ukraine on the map given three tries) Yushenko was a no one again and just another failed politician.

Western Ukraine has as much chance on their own as Quebec would if they seceded from Canada.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

And how does NOT allowing dual citizenship relate to freedom? How would you feel if the US issued the same order today for US citizens? Safer? Putin and Russia violated the soveriegnty of Georgia...period. The mumbly mouthed stuff about Russian citizens was an excuse. Ukraine's response was a weak one, in any possible effect, but powerful in restricting rights of "free people". Putins move was clearly a warning to a former Republic that got too friendly with the USA. And one calculated to show our "friends" just how much we would do for our friends. Bush's response was, to Russian ears "Yeah, well you better not cross THIS line!"

Yushenko never produced what he promised...his fault. Yushenko jumped right in the sack with the USA. Rather than gaining true freedom, they had just exchanged "puppet masters". The Orange Revolution was never anything more than George Bush twisting Putin's nose and saying "nyah, nyah!" It got Ukrainians, those PEOPLE that live there, nothing but trouble with Russia for 5 years and created "problems" internally that no one even knew existed until then. George Bush never lost HIS supply of gas in the winter. Without their US benefactor (not sure Obama could find Ukraine on the map given three tries) Yushenko was a no one again and just another failed politician.

Western Ukraine has as much chance on their own as Quebec would if they seceded from Canada.

Other than Alaska, the US doesn't border Russia like Ukraine does, sans no dual citizenship. Tsar Putin has an entire Duma full of brainwashed Stalin loving idiots who would love nothing better than to regain Tsarist Russia's former borders. The brainwashed peasant slaves in the Kremlin were drooling at the mouth when they thought Lukashenko was going to hand Belarus over to Russia on a silver platter. They even supported the Tsar Putin created NASHI Hitler Youth Organization when they were assualting the Estonian and Swedish ambassador's over the relocation of the Bronze Occupier.

As far as Western Ukrainians giving it a go on their own, yes they would need help from the West like investments and loans. But better that struggle than held back by a bunch of descendants of imported brainwashed Russians. Let Eastern Ukraine tow the Kremlin line and kiss Kremlin #######. Western Ukraine leans towards the west like it always has. Eastern Ukrainians aka descendants of imported brainwashed Russian serfs have much more in common with Russia, the Kremlin, and dictatorships and would probably be much happier being a part of Russia then an independent and democratic Ukraine. Unlike the brainwashed Kremlin ####### kissing East, Western Ukrainians deserve a chance to join mainstream Europe.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I don't think the actions of Tsar Putin are missed by anyone,especially those that want an independent and free Ukraine.

As far as western Ukraine splitting from the rest, that would probably be devastating economically for the west as they still depend on the government for so much.

Western Ukraine could make it on it's own, just like Belarus could if it ever rid itself of the the Kremlin installed lunatic dictator that runs that country atm. I would love to see Western Ukraine make the split. Let Eastern Ukraine join hands with Russia....Eastern Ukrainians deserve every bit of dictatorship they get...they asked for it, now let them reap what they sow. Anyways Russia and Eastern Ukraine have more in common with Central Asia (goes all the way back to Chingiz Khan and the Mongol created Muscovy Khanate), than they do with democratic Europe, and they would be a match made in heaven as far as both are concerned. Western Ukraine on the other hand tows a different line like it always has and as it should.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Why_Me