Simpler Answers for why women earn less...

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Maternity leave is typically a couple of months in the US, so I'm not sure how dramatically your product or market is going to change in that amount of time. If your job involves having specific knowledge about something, and not "grinding things" out, then the chances that woman's specific knowledge is likely imperative to the success of your organization and therefore she is worth hiring and retaining even if she does decide to have a family.

I love you, Trompe le Monde. If I wasn't straight and intending to remain childfree, I would totaly have your babies.

[nab 74]

as far as pay rate:

if you're a lazy dog, find a job where there is set pay across the board.

if you are a hard worker and possess the skills to do an excellent job, find a job where they give merit raises.

Hot babes are an even greater value for employers. They are smarter, work for less pay, and they are HOT.

i prefer 'easy on the eyes' to 'hot'... the former is more 'appreciation of beauty', the latter is more 'meat market' language.

depending on the business, yes, it can be a better value, IF she is intelligent and is dedictated to working hard; being easy on the eyes is a bonus to the business if working with the public.

i openly admit it, though most won't, many women get their foot in the door because they are easy on the eyes, but keep the job because they are: (any or all of these) intelligent, skilled, dedicated, hard worker.

Totally anecdotal, but I've never had a bad male boss, I've had women bosses freak out and scream at employees. In my career, men have been calmer and less emotional which makes them easier to work for.

+2 on the freak out/scream thing.

also anecdotal, but my experiences have been that with a male boss you know where they stand and with women they will smile to your face, and then stab you fatally in the back while hugging you. that clawing their way to the top can make them savages. drawback of men bosses, many try to take liberties, but smart girls learn how to counter those moves. a potentially bad boss can get put in his place quickly and turn out to be an ok boss.

i've only had one fantastic female boss. it was awesome having a boss who was a tireless worker like me; the two of us were only ones with 0% error rate, we didnt miss work for anything and definitely never during cutoff time (some women would call in EVERY cutoff time because the work was more hard then and of course, made more hard by being short-handed!).

if you've never had to work in an office with 40 women - DON'T that's a nightmare i dont wish to revisit the old bats are jealous of the young girls and nitpick every little thing, the young ones are clueless and just want eveyrone to be their friend so they are chatty with the elders who then use everythign against them ... it's like you're caught inside some twisted novella and cant escape because you have to be there every day. i coped by asking for a corner cube away from everyone and ended up with 2 other lovely ladies who also had asked to be moved; they were hard workers too.

i asked why they didnt hire men (i had worked with all men in past and never had the drama in an office like that) but was told they didnt hire men. i told my boss's boss that was not acceptable, it was discrimination! she said with this many women, men dont work well and of course i was stupid and coudlnt see why so she gave in and hired a man for the open position

after seeing him spend his days balancing open bottles of white out and other things to entertain the ladies i understood.

Yeah but you never know what they are up to. With a woman it is right out there for all to see and you know she hates the other women, or at least those hotter than her (because she knows they are a better value).

Still, they are a better value as employees.

i completely disagree with bolded section but sounds like your life XP is much different than mine. the women in business i've known will steal your ideas and present them as their own, go to superiors and attempt to get someone fired they feel is a threat to their position, and there's much more brown-nosing 'yes man' behaviour but then stab you in the back in a heartbeat from women.

underlings AND superiors need to watch out for ones who will stop at nothing to get to the top.

and believe it or not, there are actually women who appreciate beauty and arent intimidated by others sounds like you have more XP with women of low self-esteem

I think so. We need to send more bitches to Iraq, Afghanistan and prison to make things fair.

i can think of a few i'd like to send over!

some women seem to PMS all the time, but i think that is a learned behaviour... people tiptoe around them every month = they learn mean/hateful/tantrum-like behaviour gets compliance from everyone to keep them 'happy'.

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps the ones about hot babes. It really rocks to be made to feel like a piece of meat in the workplace, like you are a valued member of the work team. Hey, as long as you're bringing a sweet, sweet ####### to the office, who cares about whether you can do your job?

i agree about the "hot babes" thing... feels crappy not to be acknowledged for having a brain, like you are just nothing but T&A.

i disagree with the inference that someone who is easy on the eyes is just there for that... they can be a dedicated, skilled worker!

Edited September 27, 2010 by nab

[SMR 368]

Maternity leave is typically a couple of months in the US, so I'm not sure how dramatically your product or market is going to change in that amount of time. If your job involves having specific knowledge about something, and not "grinding things" out, then the chances that woman's specific knowledge is likely imperative to the success of your organization and therefore she is worth hiring and retaining even if she does decide to have a family.

I'm not talking about general knowledge or even industry specific knowledge so much as company specific knowledge. If I make widgets, I need people that know how to make my widgets, know about my widgets so that they can sell them, and know about my widget making processes so that they can manage them. I can teach anybody my widget knowledge but once I do, I want to retain them and I need to keep them at work so my widget factory and sales run smoothly.

In manufacturing and design industries, it can take months before someone really settles in to a new company, particularly in management, sales, engineering, etc. It's not because they do or don't have the know-how or general knowledge. They just have to learn how your company works.

If I'm planning to hire someone and understand that I will have to invest a couple months in on the job training, I need someone who will stay at the job, won't take maternity leave, and will work extra when I have deadlines coming up.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

And what you are talking about - navigating a company/corporate culture - is something you can only do by working at a place. So if you have an employee who has been there who can do that and has built relationships to make it possible you want to retain them even if it means 2-3 months off to have a baby.

Of course, back to my original point, you can no more guarantee the man you want to hire and invest in isn't going to leave in 2 years for a better offer than a woman of childbearing age isn't going to have children.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Maternity leave is typically a couple of months in the US, so I'm not sure how dramatically your product or market is going to change in that amount of time. If your job involves having specific knowledge about something, and not "grinding things" out, then the chances that woman's specific knowledge is likely imperative to the success of your organization and therefore she is worth hiring and retaining even if she does decide to have a family.

Being pregnant and raising a child goes way beyond maternity leave. I totally understand why a boss would think twice about hiring a equally qualified woman.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

as far as pay rate:

if you're a lazy dog, find a job where there is set pay across the board.

if you are a hard worker and possess the skills to do an excellent job, find a job where they give merit raises.

i prefer 'easy on the eyes' to 'hot'... the former is more 'appreciation of beauty', the latter is more 'meat market' language.

depending on the business, yes, it can be a better value, IF she is intelligent and is dedictated to working hard; being easy on the eyes is a bonus to the business if working with the public.

i openly admit it, though most won't, many women get their foot in the door because they are easy on the eyes, but keep the job because they are: (any or all of these) intelligent, skilled, dedicated, hard worker.

+2 on the freak out/scream thing.

also anecdotal, but my experiences have been that with a male boss you know where they stand and with women they will smile to your face, and then stab you fatally in the back while hugging you. that clawing their way to the top can make them savages. drawback of men bosses, many try to take liberties, but smart girls learn how to counter those moves. a potentially bad boss can get put in his place quickly and turn out to be an ok boss.

i've only had one fantastic female boss. it was awesome having a boss who was a tireless worker like me; the two of us were only ones with 0% error rate, we didnt miss work for anything and definitely never during cutoff time (some women would call in EVERY cutoff time because the work was more hard then and of course, made more hard by being short-handed!).

if you've never had to work in an office with 40 women - DON'T that's a nightmare i dont wish to revisit the old bats are jealous of the young girls and nitpick every little thing, the young ones are clueless and just want eveyrone to be their friend so they are chatty with the elders who then use everythign against them ... it's like you're caught inside some twisted novella and cant escape because you have to be there every day. i coped by asking for a corner cube away from everyone and ended up with 2 other lovely ladies who also had asked to be moved; they were hard workers too.

i asked why they didnt hire men (i had worked with all men in past and never had the drama in an office like that) but was told they didnt hire men. i told my boss's boss that was not acceptable, it was discrimination! she said with this many women, men dont work well and of course i was stupid and coudlnt see why so she gave in and hired a man for the open position

after seeing him spend his days balancing open bottles of white out and other things to entertain the ladies i understood.

i completely disagree with bolded section but sounds like your life XP is much different than mine. the women in business i've known will steal your ideas and present them as their own, go to superiors and attempt to get someone fired they feel is a threat to their position, and there's much more brown-nosing 'yes man' behaviour but then stab you in the back in a heartbeat from women.

underlings AND superiors need to watch out for ones who will stop at nothing to get to the top.

and believe it or not, there are actually women who appreciate beauty and arent intimidated by others sounds like you have more XP with women of low self-esteem

i can think of a few i'd like to send over!

some women seem to PMS all the time, but i think that is a learned behaviour... people tiptoe around them every month = they learn mean/hateful/tantrum-like behaviour gets compliance from everyone to keep them 'happy'.

i agree about the "hot babes" thing... feels crappy not to be acknowledged for having a brain, like you are just nothing but T&A.

i disagree with the inference that someone who is easy on the eyes is just there for that... they can be a dedicated, skilled worker!

OK, I take it back. Hot babes are not a good value. Women easy on the eys are a good value. Women are smarter, work for less money and are easy on the eyes. Better value all around. Hire women.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think so. We need to send more bitches to Iraq, Afghanistan and prison to make things fair.

add to that...

Women do not make war as much as men and do not commit crime as much as men, they are smarter, easier on the eyes and work for less money. We have a winner!

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps the ones about hot babes. It really rocks to be made to feel like a piece of meat in the workplace, like you are a valued member of the work team. Hey, as long as you're bringing a sweet, sweet ####### to the office, who cares about whether you can do your job?

wow. very sexist. I may be offended

Try to think of the otherwise incompetent woman with the hot a s s as having 'facilitation skills' and 'influencing skills'.

Women are more competent than men also.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My current manager is male. Real nice guy, never blows up, never seen him upset about anything. Very chill. But he's not a great boss because he's kind of incompetent. Lacks curiosity. Avoids conflict. On the other hand, my favorite manager so far is female although I hated her at first. Pushy, aggressive, kinda b1tchy until she decides she likes you. Once I had a good working relationship with her, she was awesome. She let me grow a lot, advocated for me in the organization, working for her is a good place to be unless she decides she doesn't like you.

See. Women are better, and that good female manager was probably working for 23% less than the incompetent (probably impotent too) male manager. Better value. What I really fear is that if women abandon the value they offer and try to go for price alone they may lose some of their competitive edge. Why should someone pay more and get nothing better? See what I mean?

I hope not. One would imagine they could avoid falling into the traps men fell into long ago and lose their edge, but hey, it is a risk.

I wish them the best.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Of course, back to my original point, you can no more guarantee the man you want to hire and invest in isn't going to leave in 2 years for a better offer than a woman of childbearing age isn't going to have children.

Right! Women are nurturers and smarter and less prone to crime and easier on the eyes, and work cheaper to boot!. I simply do not see how it can be argued they aren't a better deal...and staying on topic, why we need to worry if they try and make the same mistakes men have.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

your comment is completely unrelated to mine but I'll let it slide since gender differences/equality isn't a subject where we expect you to be rational.....

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

your comment is completely unrelated to mine but I'll let it slide since gender differences/equality isn't a subject where we expect you to be rational.....

It may be unrelated but I think we agree women are a better value for employers