Simpler Answers for why women earn less...

[alienlovechild 75]

Interesting article on the topic here: http://blogs.payscale.com/ask_dr_salary/2009/11/women-earn-less-than-men-a-result-of-pregnancy-leave.html

It appears that there is still disparity (but very slight) when controlling for the factors previously mentioned.

Thanks for taking the time to look into the issue at hand.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

As hard as it may be with the topic of the posted article being as it is, please refrain from making sexist comments - they are inappropriate and a violation of TOS.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As hard as it may be with the topic of the posted article being as it is, please refrain from making sexist comments - they are inappropriate and a violation of TOS.

Which would those be?

[mawilson 2,133]

Over 95 percent of our 40,000 dead and wounded from Afghanistan and Iraq were men. Men in prison outnumber women 10 to one. Is that the result of sex discrimination?

I think so. We need to send more bitches to Iraq, Afghanistan and prison to make things fair.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Which would those be?

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps the ones about hot babes. It really rocks to be made to feel like a piece of meat in the workplace, like you are a valued member of the work team. Hey, as long as you're bringing a sweet, sweet ####### to the office, who cares about whether you can do your job?

[^_^ 5,021]

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps the ones about hot babes. It really rocks to be made to feel like a piece of meat in the workplace, like you are a valued member of the work team. Hey, as long as you're bringing a sweet, sweet ####### to the office, who cares about whether you can do your job?

Try to think of the otherwise incompetent woman with the hot a s s as having 'facilitation skills' and 'influencing skills'.

[SMR 368]

In this article that was cited in this thread (http://blogs.payscale.com/ask_dr_salary/2009/11/women-earn-less-than-men-a-result-of-pregnancy-leave.html), there are several explanations offered. The first explanation, "Women lose time in the workforce in order to have and raise children" is disregarded by the author as being compensated for by counting experience, etc.

But this cannot be entirely true. The issue is not only past pregnancies and maternity leave but potential future leave. In most higher-paying jobs, it is not easy for employers to replace workers, particularly if they can't make a permanent replacement when regulations state they need to keep the job open so the woman can return after the pregnancy. Even if they can, they have to spend time searching for and training the replacement. That is a lot of lost productivity.

There is no way for an employer to legally enforce a contract that requires a woman to not become pregnant. When hiring a woman, this is inherently a risk that an employer is taking. There really is no way around this. Even if the woman is single and swears up and down she'll never have kids, the potential is there and the employer has no recourse if it happens.

[^_^ 5,021]

Even if the woman is single and swears up and down she'll never have kids, the potential is there and the employer has no recourse if it happens.

There are a lot of women of childbearing age where I work and many of them do get pregnant. What's the big deal, so they're gone for a few months to deliver and bond and then they're back. It's 2, 3, 4 months max that anyone's gone. A well run department without key individual dependencies will do just fine for that amount of time.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Totally anecdotal, but I've never had a bad male boss, I've had women bosses freak out and scream at employees. In my career, men have been calmer and less emotional which makes them easier to work for.

My old boss, who was a man, was an incorrigible gossip and incredibly jealous of others. I was often shocked at how vicious some of it was: people having affairs or drug problems or whatever.

I have worked for women like you describe and I have worked with men who were sociopaths who would blow over something minor. And I've had great male and female bosses. I think the ideal work environment is one where there is an equal balance of men and women.

There are a lot of women of childbearing age where I work and many of them do get pregnant. What's the big deal, so they're gone for a few months to deliver and bond and then they're back. It's 2, 3, 4 months max that anyone's gone. A well run department without key individual dependencies will do just fine for that amount of time.

This is exactly as it where I work. Generally not an issue.

[^_^ 5,021]

My current manager is male. Real nice guy, never blows up, never seen him upset about anything. Very chill. But he's not a great boss because he's kind of incompetent. Lacks curiosity. Avoids conflict. On the other hand, my favorite manager so far is female although I hated her at first. Pushy, aggressive, kinda b1tchy until she decides she likes you. Once I had a good working relationship with her, she was awesome. She let me grow a lot, advocated for me in the organization, working for her is a good place to be unless she decides she doesn't like you.

My worst manager was also female. She was just plain insane.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Legacy member

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

When I was looking for a training contract as a solicitor back in Britain, I had a really hard time getting interviews. On paper, I was an excellent applicant -- great marks at a "name" university for my undergrad education; a master's degree; commendations in law school; real world commercial experience; and prior work in the legal field. I asked my careers guidance office what was going on, since I was watching my 21 year old classmates who had no work experience and had similar law school marks to me secure roles at some of the top firms, ones that wouldn't even acknowledge my application. I was told it was simple, if illegal: I was 30, married and a woman, so obviously I was about to pop one out. Better not to even invite me for an interview in the first place. Of course there was no way to prove this. Nevermind that I had no intention of ever producing buns from the oven -- they can't ask if I intend to anyway.

I have to say that being a woman has not held me back in my field now that I'm self-employed. When I worked in the pensions industry, I know I was being underpaid compared to my male colleagues and I complained and agitated about this. It took 16 months for a pay review to be completed; when it was done I still wasn't making as much as I knew I was worth but because my role was so specialised and had no direct analogues in the company it was again impossible to prove anything. It just felt like a slap in the face to be making 10k less a year than the new analyst who had 3 years' less experience than I had.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I don't understand this mentality - in today's environment anyone can turn around and leave in 2 year's time for a better offer, with or without babies being a factor

[^_^ 5,021]

Things are kind of the opposite where I work. An external consulting firm is advising senior management that we don't have enough women in middle management. So in a total break from tradition they're laying off existing middle managers and hiring from the outside - and all but 1 of the hires have been women. It kinda sucks because I had finally gotten to the payband where a middle management or similar payband job would have been next but that's no longer going to happen here. I ran into our CIO in the hallway a few weeks ago and he basically told me, if you wanna move up, go out cuz it won't happen here for a few years.

[SMR 368]

There are a lot of women of childbearing age where I work and many of them do get pregnant. What's the big deal, so they're gone for a few months to deliver and bond and then they're back. It's 2, 3, 4 months max that anyone's gone. A well run department without key individual dependencies will do just fine for that amount of time.

I suppose it all depends on what your job is. But either you're essential to the organization or you aren't. If you're job involves grinding through things and there are a lot of people grinding through the same things, you might be right. But if you have a job that involves knowledge about a specific product line, process, or market, then a couple months is quite a long time to be without an individual whose knowledge may not be completely concurrent with other individuals. At the same time, it isn't enough time to get someone else up to speed (and if it is, it's wasted time once the mother comes back from leave).

Beyond that, it's not just about the 2-4 months that are taken off before and after birth. Mothers are more tied to their children and thus less able to work late, come in early, come in on the weekend, or travel. Even if a man has children it's typically seen as normal for him to do all those things. That's somewhat of an unfair stereotype but it has basis in fact and that's why the stereotype exists. Another way to put it is that when women have kids, their job typically moves down on the priority list. When men have kids, their job typically stays at the same priority or may even move up in priority since they feel more pressure to bring home the bacon.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

But if you have a job that involves knowledge about a specific product line, process, or market, then a couple months is quite a long time to be without an individual whose knowledge may not be completely concurrent with other individuals. At the same time, it isn't enough time to get someone else up to speed (and if it is, it's wasted time once the mother comes back from leave).

Maternity leave is typically a couple of months in the US, so I'm not sure how dramatically your product or market is going to change in that amount of time. If your job involves having specific knowledge about something, and not "grinding things" out, then the chances that woman's specific knowledge is likely imperative to the success of your organization and therefore she is worth hiring and retaining even if she does decide to have a family.