The Obamacare Debacle. The First Victims? Children.

[Heracles 417]

Your mistake there again is thinking Insurance is the problem. The government in the NHS is a middleman just like the insurance company is here if you choose to carry it. Not to mention Medicare and Medicare deny far many more claims than any insurance company.

Actually, no NHS is not. The number of times I have to change something as trivial as heartburn medication brands or types is getting old and ridiculous. At one stage the online tools from the insurance company, which tell you what you can or cannot buy, actually told me to use a old version and basically see how it works out. I don't need or known anyone required to seek any prior approval for anything via NHS - ever.

Medicare and Medicaid is a basket case here because the private sector has their hands into it.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Heracles

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

A common fallacy of liberals/dems whatever, is that they expect that they can force their agenda on private companies or business in general, from tax policy to health care, and that business will just accept that they will have lower profit and continue on as they have. They think they can repeatedly "beat" business, take it out on them, make them "pay" and that business will just accept it and continue to offer benefits and goodies.

Implement a law "requiring" them to cover anyone for anything and one of two things will happen. The price will go WAY HIGH or the coverage will cease to exist. Period.

Our tax system has driven a huge sector of what used to be good jobs, jobs that supported families, right out of this country. This along with the fact that the businesses have to find a cheaper way to get product in your hands to compete in a market when more and more of their costs are government mandates, and we see quality falling as well. It is getting difficult to find anything made in the USA anymore. The best jobs in this country were not taken by illegal immigrants, but by foreign workers that have never been to the USA. When you see "Made in China" (or Vietnam, Indonesia, Mexico, etc.) What it really means in "Made where we did not have to pay for ridiculous government mandates" It also means..."You voted for Obama, we voted for China"

We are going to see more and more loss of jobs and services. I am not sure that wasn't the plan anyway since it iwll put the government in the position of "having to be" a single payor system.

[evli1966 88]

A common fallacy of liberals/dems whatever, is that they expect that they can force their agenda on private companies or business in general, from tax policy to health care, and that business will just accept that they will have lower profit and continue on as they have. They think they can repeatedly "beat" business, take it out on them, make them "pay" and that business will just accept it and continue to offer benefits and goodies.

Implement a law "requiring" them to cover anyone for anything and one of two things will happen. The price will go WAY HIGH or the coverage will cease to exist. Period.

Our tax system has driven a huge sector of what used to be good jobs, jobs that supported families, right out of this country. This along with the fact that the businesses have to find a cheaper way to get product in your hands to compete in a market when more and more of their costs are government mandates, and we see quality falling as well. It is getting difficult to find anything made in the USA anymore. The best jobs in this country were not taken by illegal immigrants, but by foreign workers that have never been to the USA. When you see "Made in China" (or Vietnam, Indonesia, Mexico, etc.) What it really means in "Made where we did not have to pay for ridiculous government mandates" It also means..."You voted for Obama, we voted for China"

We are going to see more and more loss of jobs and services. I am not sure that wasn't the plan anyway since it iwll put the government in the position of "having to be" a single payor system.

[SuperDuper! 230]

Yes they do! I remember purchasing health insurance when I was in college and it stipulated that I can not get more than 6 x-rays per calender year. If that is not rationing, what is it?

And it is against the TOS to call me (or anyone) sweetie.

This is not rationing, dear. It is called a limitation or a cap.

Is a speed limit a ration?

In life, there are limitations, and it is your responsibility to know them

[Nina~ 431]

This is not rationing, dear. It is called a limitation or a cap.

Is a speed limit a ration?

In life, there are limitations, and it is your responsibility to know them

But what if I was in a car wreck and broke more than 6 bones in my body? From my point of view, it is rationing. You can give it different names like "limitation or cap" but at the end of the day, it is the same thing. As long as you have healthcare providers, insurance industries and pharmaceutical companies trying to make a obscene profit, someone has to pay the price!

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

But what if I was in a car wreck and broke more than 6 bones in my body? From my point of view, it is rationing. You can give it different names like "limitation or cap" but at the end of the day, it is the same thing. As long as you have healthcare providers, insurance industries and pharmaceutical companies trying to make a obscene profit, someone has to pay the price!

You can get 300 x-rays each year if you want but the insurance company has only agreed to pay for 6 of them. This is the contract that you or your provider/employer signed, if you don't like then pay more for better coverage.

It really is that simple.

And regarding your Auto accident example, that's why your Car Insurance has MEDICAL COVERAGE included just be sure you have sufficient limits (not just the state minimum required).

Edited September 24, 2010 by Bob 4 Anna

[Nina~ 431]

You can get 300 x-rays each year if you want but the insurance company has only agreed to pay for 6 of them. This is the contract that you or your provider/employer signed, if you don't like then pay more for better coverage.

It really is that simple.

It was an insurance provided through my college when I was 17. I worked part-time at a minimum wage job to pay for it because I could not afford anything else, and I had enough sense to know that health insurance is extremely important. Luckily, I didnt have any catastrophic injuries or illness while in school. There are tons of kids & young adults out there getting their healthcare rationed and can not do a damn thing about it.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

It was an insurance provided through my college when I was 17. I worked part-time at a minimum wage job to pay for it because I could not afford anything else, and I had enough sense to know that health insurance is extremely important. Luckily, I didnt have any catastrophic injuries or illness while in school. There are tons of kids & young adults out there getting their healthcare rationed and can not do a damn thing about it.

It's part of a free market, you get what you can afford. I pay more for my health insurance than those College Student plans offered by the local colleges so I'm not surprised that I have better coverage.

You really need to understand the difference between this and rationing though. If it was rationed then you'd not have the chance to get more than 6 x-rays through legit sources regardless. That simply isn't the case, if you ever needed more than 6 in a year you would get it and then be billed for it as it exceeds your alloted coverage. That isn't rationing... Also most healthcare does have a catastrophic coverage clause which would kick-in in the event of some catastrophic whatever.

[Nina~ 431]

It's part of a free market, you get what you can afford. I pay more for my health insurance than those College Student plans offered by the local colleges so I'm not surprised that I have better coverage.

You really need to understand the difference between this and rationing though. If it was rationed then you'd not have the chance to get more than 6 x-rays through legit sources regardless. That simply isn't the case, if you ever needed more than 6 in a year you would get it and then be billed for it as it exceeds your alloted coverage. That isn't rationing... Also most healthcare does have a catastrophic coverage clause which would kick-in in the event of some catastrophic whatever.

And how exactly do you think a broke college student could afford paying for the extra x-rays? Let me get this straight, when a private industry allots that amount of healthcare you can receive, then it is ok, but if a government does it then it is called "rationing"? The healthcare system in America is seriously broken, except for the ones that can afford good insurance.

And I honestly have no faith in the "catastrophic coverage" because I have heard too many horror stories about insurance companies cancelling coverage when someone falls ill.

[^_^ 5,021]

And I honestly have no faith in the "catastrophic coverage" because I have heard too many horror stories about insurance companies cancelling coverage when someone falls ill.

High deductible plans today are garbage but once the regulatory reforms (part of Obamacare) kick in with the exchanges in 2014, they will actually be quite good choices for younger consumers.

The healthcare system in America is seriously broken, except for the ones that can afford good insurance.

And that is the crux of the 'debate'. The core opposition to this reform comes from people with good insurance.

But the good news is, if you've read the Republican "pledge" released yesterday (or was it the day before?), they want to repeal Obamacare and replace it with ... Obamacare Repeal and replace, indeed.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Yes they do! I remember purchasing health insurance when I was in college and it stipulated that I can not get more than 6 x-rays per calender year. If that is not rationing, what is it?

And it is against the TOS to call me (or anyone) sweetie.

Sweetie is no different than calling one ignorant.

You are looking at this in entirely the wrong way. It's easy to blame insurance for something that is not in their hands.

Health care and Insurance are two different entities.

No one is making you buy insurance. You buy insurance to "help" you pay for your health care. It's health care however that is the cost culprit.

There's nothing wrong with an insurance company setting stipulation in the service you CHOOSE to purchase to assist you. If they only want to offer to pay for 5 x-rays during your contract, then that's their perogative per that contract. You don't have to accept those terms and you can always decline that insurance coverage that HELPS you pay for the high cost of health care.

Insurance is nothing more than a service that is offered at a premium to assist you in paying for another service that is even more costly. The two are very very different and are only intertwined if you so choose for them to be on your own.

Insurance is nothing more than asking your next door neighbor if you can pay them $300 a month so they'll turn around and pay for your $60,000 surgery.

[Gemmie 142]

When Nina talks about the insurance 'rationing' her health care, she doesn't mean it is literally not available. If her insurance only covered 6 x-rays per year, then yes technically she could get more and then receive a large bill, but her point is that while in college and working a minimum-wage part-time job, she's not able to. That is what I think is quite disgusting, that people are forced to choose between decent health care, and their position in life. College students, the unemployed, etc suffer huge financial set-backs if they opt for good coverage, yet they're screwed if they run into a medical emergency and don't have this.

My MIL has been sitting in the ER for a week and a half because her insurance doesn't cover her until October. She needs treatment? Too bad, unless you want to pay for it later, and considering she has NO money whatsoever, isn't an option. She's been prescribed medication from the hospital, but even after checking the insurance that will begin soon, they don't cover that type of pill (costing up to $100 per pack). It's a Catch 22 situation. If she wants decent insurance, she must earn good money to be able to get the coverage - but she can't earn good money when the lack of insurance (along with a medical issue) is raping her bank account.

[^_^ 5,021]

Insurance is nothing more than asking your next door neighbor if you can pay them $300 a month so they'll turn around and pay for your $60,000 surgery.

That's an idiotic analogy. Insurance is all about sharing cost, about setting up pooled money. There is no pool in your analogy. Your analogy is either borne of ignorance or intended to inflame. I'm not sure which is worse.

[^_^ 5,021]

If she wants decent insurance, she must earn good money to be able to get the coverage ...

Cue the RWNs with their cries of "get a real job, ya bum!".

[Obama 2012 1,714]

That's an idiotic analogy. Insurance is all about sharing cost, about setting up pooled money. There is no pool in your analogy. Your analogy is either borne of ignorance or intended to inflame. I'm not sure which is worse.

Sort of, but the 'pooled' money is hardly ever enough to pay for the amount of people on the system. That's why insurance companies don't make their "money/profits/payouts" off of premiums, but off the investments that take place with said premiums and the returns on them.