Trying to price the entire process...

[Used to be broken 147]

You really wonder? You are joking right?

Well, I have only one FSU man to compare to, who is genuine sweetie and I guess I just assume there are many more out there like him. Perhaps not?

[slim 1,533]

I am talking about FSU men

FSU men who are going "foreign." They're special, just like all of us.

..at risk of being accused of being too much like you

Don't think you're at too much risk of that.

there is a dearth of marriageable attractive women in the US dating pool.

Dearth? Or did you mistype "death."

Either way, there's a huge disparity in the numbers between the USA and FSU.

think it might be several other dynamics

I'd agree.

I feel I need to point out that in spite of what may have been said in other threads, Slim did not at all demean the quality of women in the US. The simple fact is that the female to male ratio is higher in the FSU than in the US. That says nothing about the quality (which has been discussed at length) but it does mean men in the FSU will have more options.

Quality or quantity, there are simply more over there than here, and that's why FSU men don't go shopping abroad.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well, I have only one FSU man to compare to, who is genuine sweetie and I guess I just assume there are many more out there like him. Perhaps not?

For example, in Ukraine (of which I am most familiar) I am sure of the 30+ million men there are a number of "sweeties" who aren't gay or hung up on their mothers. The odds would favor that. As a percentage of the population, they are very tiny in number. No offense to your sweet FSU husband, and I also know some genuinely nice FSU guys that are defintely "men" by any definition, but by far most of the men I know in Ukraine are complete @ssholes when it comes to how they treat their women and families. To the point that I am completely uncomfortable with them in their homes.

American men, among our various minuses, ARE considered to be much more loyal, stable, and family oriented by FSU women. We also have a MUCH lower incidence of alcoholism, abuse and we live 20 years longer than the average FSU man. I am not arguing the point, it is a fact. FSU men consider American women to be spoiled and much less attractive, per capita, than FSU women. Also a fact. Surrounded in Ukraine by 116 women for every 100 men (the largest differential in the civilized world) and the difference increases with age...greatly, what is the attraction? You found a good one, great. Congratulations. Really, I am sincere. FSU women often meet the expectaions of an "ideal wife" for American men (call me sexiat, I don't care, it is just a fact) and American men often meet the expectations of an ideal husband and FATHER (very important, maybe more so) for FSU women (call them bubble brained Barbie Dolls if you will, just the facts)

You are in an extreme minority (I presume you know this) and there IS a reason for it. As you see from this site there is NO SHORTAGE of American Women marrying foreign men. The vast majority are marrying men from native English speaking cultures...check it out. UK, Canada, Aus, etc. The next biggest group is marrying men from the middle east, Almost none from FSU. Middle esatern men attively prowl the marraige sites for American women, FSU men do not. FSU MEN, posing as FSU women, actively prowl the marriage sites for American men who are stupid enough to send them $1500 for a "visa and plane ticket to come to you"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

For example, in Ukraine (of which I am most familiar) I am sure of the 30+ million men there are a number of "sweeties" who aren't gay or hung up on their mothers. The odds would favor that. As a percentage of the population, they are very tiny in number. No offense to your sweet FSU husband, and I also know some genuinely nice FSU guys that are defintely "men" by any definition, but by far most of the men I know in Ukraine are complete @ssholes when it comes to how they treat their women and families. To the point that I am completely uncomfortable with them in their homes.

American men, among our various minuses, ARE considered to be much more loyal, stable, and family oriented by FSU women. We also have a MUCH lower incidence of alcoholism, abuse and we live 20 years longer than the average FSU man. I am not arguing the point, it is a fact. FSU men consider American women to be spoiled and much less attractive, per capita, than FSU women. Also a fact. Surrounded in Ukraine by 116 women for every 100 men (the largest differential in the civilized world) and the difference increases with age...greatly, what is the attraction? You found a good one, great. Congratulations. Really, I am sincere. FSU women often meet the expectaions of an "ideal wife" for American men (call me sexiat, I don't care, it is just a fact) and American men often meet the expectations of an ideal husband and FATHER (very important, maybe more so) for FSU women (call them bubble brained Barbie Dolls if you will, just the facts)

You are in an extreme minority (I presume you know this) and there IS a reason for it. As you see from this site there is NO SHORTAGE of American Women marrying foreign men. The vast majority are marrying men from native English speaking cultures...check it out. UK, Canada, Aus, etc. The next biggest group is marrying men from the middle east, Almost none from FSU. Middle esatern men attively prowl the marraige sites for American women, FSU men do not. FSU MEN, posing as FSU women, actively prowl the marriage sites for American men who are stupid enough to send them $1500 for a "visa and plane ticket to come to you"

Ukrainian male population is about 20 million, sorry. But still..

[1HappyGuy 45]

Well, I have only one FSU man to compare to, who is genuine sweetie and I guess I just assume there are many more out there like him. Perhaps not?

Gary makes some very good points, so consider yourself lucky. You found the diamond in the rough. We all hope that your marriage will be long, successful and very happy. What Gary was talking about is just the statistical facts in FSU countries and in America. Although generalities aren't the best to use when discussing differences, they do have factual basis.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gary makes some very good points, so consider yourself lucky. You found the diamond in the rough. We all hope that your marriage will be long, successful and very happy. What Gary was talking about is just the statistical facts in FSU countries and in America. Although generalities aren't the best to use when discussing differences, they do have factual basis.

Yeah, please, read carefully. I did not mention any names. Though I have had recently had one huge disappointment. A very old (grade school) friend of Alla's, his name is Lesha, recently got married for the first time. Lesha was one of those completely platonic friends of everybody. He used to do a lot for Alla and for some of her other friends and we were all happy when he finally got married himself to a very beautiful woman and soon after she was pregnant (ig surprise!) but he has turned ut to be a completely negligent father/husband. And I was SURE his wife had found one of the rare jewels of men in Ukraine.

And to top off the perceptions, Alla comfirms the rumors, even to the point of being disappointed that men do not pay so much attention to her here, except fleeting glances. Ukrainian men, in general, are very crude in their approach to women, feminism being non-existant there. Alla and her friend Natasha were offered some Vodka and several hours of "fun with this!" (unzip pants and shake c*ck in direction of women) while waiting at a bus stop this spring when she was visiting. They politely declined and the "completely drunk" Don Jaun wandered off down the street. Natasha said "Alla, find me a man in the USA, PLEASE!" Not to say the same doesn't happen here, I am sure it does. But there, the women just kind of shrug it off...normal for Ukrainian men, y'know. I was made very uncomfortable at the homes of several of my Ukrainian co-workers with the way they treated their wives and one woman afater another told me how American men are "Gold" and not because of "green Cards", that is such a fallacy! Ukrainian women really don't care much about a green card for the most part.

Did you ever see the "grand opening" of a new shop or store...just about any new shop or store? There will be a couple (or 3 or 4 o4 5)of really hot and really scantily clad young girls bumping and grinding away on the sidewalk in front of the store and men grabbing their @sses. Try to picture that happening in front of the next Kroger grocery that opens...or Best Buy, or Sam's Club. I HAVE photos!

I asked Alla if this bothers her. "Voowhat?" The girls danicng in front of the store. "Why should this bother me? These young wonderful girls are being paid money to dance so men will come and spend money on a new washing machine. What is the problem?"

It is no surprise that men treat women as disposable objects (they actually ARE disposable as another, younger and prettier, is waiting around the corner) One reason Ukrainian women like men that are older is that increases the chances of success because...

1. If he is 45-50 years and NOT a alcoholic, he probably never will be

2. He probably has a decent job and can support a family, they are not gold-diggers, they want to be the wife and mother and the man to be the husband and father. They do not want to be rich necessarily

3. They are the BEST woman this guy can get and he will not chase other women if they keeep him happy at home and the have the "tools" to keep him happy and they know it.

so...men are in a minority, distinctly. A large percentage of the men are undesirable to the women which skews the numbers even further. THAT is why it is rare to see FSU men marrying American women.

Lest anyone think there is some huge number of women coming to the US from Ukraine, keep this in mind...the consulate does 6 interviews a day for K and CR visas, times about 20 days per month (sometimes only four days a week in summer) or about 1400 visas per year from a population of 25 million women. .00006% That includes MEN marrying American women.

Wow! I am even more lucky than I thought!

[slim 1,533]

Well, I have only one FSU man to compare to, who is genuine sweetie and I guess I just assume there are many more out there like him. Perhaps not?

I'm sure there are a few genuine sweeties in the whole FSU.

call me sexiat, I don't care,

sexiat.

[Used to be broken 147]

Well some interesting insights in the Ukrainian FSU men

I guess I did luck up. Our situation is more similar to those of you that met your fiances and wives through a social connection verses a online dating site. I know things are rapidly changing with the dating sites and now more women are looking over the border, but the third party arrangements were largely men looking for women to begin with weren't they?

I certainly wasn't "looking" for a FSU man it just happened he was from there and we had some mutual friends that introduced us. I don't think I would have ever gone out of my way to use a non-traditional method like on-line intro service.

I don't know if it's nature or nurture but I always attributed my husbands characteristic of doing his share and then some in our marriage to his upbringing in a society that largely had taken down many of the barriers of gender by basically putting everyone to work in the factory building tanks. As for his mommy, well I have always thought that a man who treats his mother well is most likely to have respect for women and treat his spouse equally well which is at least the case in my relationship. It sounds like there is a defective mechanism going on in the relationship of the Ukraine mom-son relationships? Women are training their sons to grow up and be disrespectful to their mothers, sisters and women in general?

I have really only noted the one major difference from American men if you will is his natural practicality which again is probably due to the cultural difference of scrapping to get by in a difficult economy. "less is more" consumer consumption kind of thing.

There are other FSU men around, in my area lots of Poles who appear to be kind and thoughtful husbands and good fathers, but most of them are also married to first generation Polish wives.

[Used to be broken 147]

Gary makes some very good points, so consider yourself lucky. You found the diamond in the rough. We all hope that your marriage will be long, successful and very happy. What Gary was talking about is just the statistical facts in FSU countries and in America. Although generalities aren't the best to use when discussing differences, they do have factual basis.

Well thanks, same to everyone here. We have quite a bit of water under the bridge at this time (9 years) so far very good despite Immigration issues.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I'm sure there are a few genuine sweeties in the whole FSU.

sexiat.

I HATE that they put the "A" so close to the "S". BUT, Alla says a common question from one FSU woman to another about their men is "Does he have fat fingers?"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well some interesting insights in the Ukrainian FSU men

I guess I did luck up. Our situation is more similar to those of you that met your fiances and wives through a social connection verses a online dating site. I know things are rapidly changing with the dating sites and now more women are looking over the border, but the third party arrangements were largely men looking for women to begin with weren't they?

I certainly wasn't "looking" for a FSU man it just happened he was from there and we had some mutual friends that introduced us. I don't think I would have ever gone out of my way to use a non-traditional method like on-line intro service.

I don't know if it's nature or nurture but I always attributed my husbands characteristic of doing his share and then some in our marriage to his upbringing in a society that largely had taken down many of the barriers of gender by basically putting everyone to work in the factory building tanks. As for his mommy, well I have always thought that a man who treats his mother well is most likely to have respect for women and treat his spouse equally well which is at least the case in my relationship. It sounds like there is a defective mechanism going on in the relationship of the Ukraine mom-son relationships? Women are training their sons to grow up and be disrespectful to their mothers, sisters and women in general?

I have really only noted the one major difference from American men if you will is his natural practicality which again is probably due to the cultural difference of scrapping to get by in a difficult economy. "less is more" consumer consumption kind of thing.

There are other FSU men around, in my area lots of Poles who appear to be kind and thoughtful husbands and good fathers, but most of them are also married to first generation Polish wives.

Mothers and elders in general are highly regarded in their culture. Men that will do anything for their mother will get drunk and beat their wives, not at all a connection. Notice in Ukraine, Russia (and I would imagine in Belarus) a young attractive woman gets on the bus and then men couldn't care less, but let an old woman get on the bus and they ALL jump up and offer their seat. Age before beauty...most definitely.

Frugality is a hallmark of people raised in the Soviet Union, really. Men and women. Yes, women work, and yes they built tanks and YES they were soldiers and YES the top two Soviet snipers in WW2 were women! But they do no want to be. They will do what they have to, they will do what they are supposed to do. Alla WILL NOT throw away food. Ever. when I would meet her in another city when she was there for business for a feww days we always had leftover food. She would go door to door and give it to someone. If it is clearly not edible for humans, she will give it to the animals outside. It NEVER goes in the trash.

Alla is generally very frugal and easy to please and eminently practical.

at any rate, not to pick on Ukrainian men, but those are the ones I know best.

As far as the development of marriage sites, I have no clue. Never had a need for them. Until I went to Ukraine I never even imagined I would want to look at a website of Ukrainian women. For what? After I was there to live, what would be the point of staring at a computer screen when there was like 800,000 of them outside the door? I had "offers" before I left the airport and I thought at first "Wow the hookers are just really BOLD here...and beautiful!" They weren't hookers.

[SMR 368]

Mothers and elders in general are highly regarded in their culture. Men that will do anything for their mother will get drunk and beat their wives, not at all a connection. Notice in Ukraine, Russia (and I would imagine in Belarus) a young attractive woman gets on the bus and then men couldn't care less, but let an old woman get on the bus and they ALL jump up and offer their seat. Age before beauty...most definitely.

Frugality is a hallmark of people raised in the Soviet Union, really. Men and women. Yes, women work, and yes they built tanks and YES they were soldiers and YES the top two Soviet snipers in WW2 were women! But they do no want to be. They will do what they have to, they will do what they are supposed to do. Alla WILL NOT throw away food. Ever. when I would meet her in another city when she was there for business for a feww days we always had leftover food. She would go door to door and give it to someone. If it is clearly not edible for humans, she will give it to the animals outside. It NEVER goes in the trash.

Alla is generally very frugal and easy to please and eminently practical.

at any rate, not to pick on Ukrainian men, but those are the ones I know best.

As far as the development of marriage sites, I have no clue. Never had a need for them. Until I went to Ukraine I never even imagined I would want to look at a website of Ukrainian women. For what? After I was there to live, what would be the point of staring at a computer screen when there was like 800,000 of them outside the door? I had "offers" before I left the airport and I thought at first "Wow the hookers are just really BOLD here...and beautiful!" They weren't hookers.

Good points except that the top two Soviet snipers in WW2 were not women. There were several top Soviet snipers that were women but they were only the most successful female snipers. Ivan Sidorenko, Vasiliy Zaitsev and others had more kills than Pavlichenka.

[baron555 934]

Good points except that the top two Soviet snipers in WW2 were not women. There were several top Soviet snipers that were women but they were only the most successful female snipers. Ivan Sidorenko, Vasiliy Zaitsev and others had more kills than Pavlichenka.

tsk, tsk, tsk.......Gary was talking about Total Overall Kills.....not Kills made with a Rifle !!!!!

[Used to be broken 147]

Mothers and elders in general are highly regarded in their culture. Men that will do anything for their mother will get drunk and beat their wives, not at all a connection. Notice in Ukraine, Russia (and I would imagine in Belarus) a young attractive woman gets on the bus and then men couldn't care less, but let an old woman get on the bus and they ALL jump up and offer their seat. Age before beauty...most definitely.

Frugality is a hallmark of people raised in the Soviet Union, really. Men and women.

Well sorry to hear the male national pastime in Ukraine seems to be wife beating.

Guess I didn't notice the bus thing while I was visiting Belarus, probably because my frugal husband thought it was more practical to walk I know every time we meet overseas he goes out of his way to buy presents for everyone in his family along with his mom, but they are always infinitely practical.

The upside of the "food thing" is I never had to clean the frig.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Good points except that the top two Soviet snipers in WW2 were not women. There were several top Soviet snipers that were women but they were only the most successful female snipers. Ivan Sidorenko, Vasiliy Zaitsev and others had more kills than Pavlichenka.

OK, OK. But still, women in the FSU were always very participative, so to speak. And no one argues that it was women that rebuilt the USSR (such that it was...ok) after the war due to a distinct lack of men. I guess my point is that a woman in the FSU would do whatever she HAD to do but did not necessarily want to.