Montana GOP: Homosexuality is a crime

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I understand better now.

I thought you were refering to the ole Baptist comments out to 2 am drinking on Saturday and at Sunday school by 9am on Sunday.

BTW guilty here.

I want a Thermo nuclear Device

I don't know. I don't drink. At all, ever. Never in fact. I don't like the tatse of alcohol, I assure you it is not because of religious or moral beliefs. I DO like potato salad

[Danno 1,228]

You are wrong. I do not believe what you suggest I believe about how laws are made - the difference is that I believe that morality is and should be a man made construct based on basic concepts of equality not something dictated to us by 'god'.

I did explain how and why adults should not have sex with children, such sexual relations are necessarily predatory and all predatory sex is based on a fundamental inequality - a child is not equipped with the skills required to make an informed decision on sex with anyone, let alone an adult. Are you seriously trying to suggest that you have no idea why relationships between adults and children are not and should not be on an equal footing? I find that incredible, particularly with your vehemence as regards discipline, your support of spanking and your abhorrence of adults who treat children as 'friends' rather than keeping them in their proper place.

As to hiding behind the 'it's the way things are done' in the US instead of owning that you would relish punishing homosexuals...

Ahh MC, not only are you avoiding my points... you are now shadow boxing.

I don't believe I even brought "Children" into the conversation... you did.

I simply pointed to laws which forbid family members from getting married or even having sex, no need to assume I meant children.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

YOu seem to be debating me... for simply pointing out the way it works.

If you don't like the fact that such things as Adultery incest or even vibrators can be illegal in parts of the US, I suggest you pack-up and Ship out.... it's been this way for a long long time.

I do not argue that things can be one way in one state and different in another. Shooting doves is a crime in Wisconsin, it is a major social function in Texas.

I did not debate that it can BE this way. I asked for a logical reason FOR it. You cannot provide one. Big surprise. While there COULD be a logical reason it is illegal to shoot doves in Wisconsin but not in Texas (maybe they don't have many doves in Wisconsin) there is NO logical reason that owning a vibrator in Alabama is illegal but it is OK in Mississippi. These laws controlling what people do in the privacy of their bedroom exist ONLY because enough pervert Republicans get elected that have nothing better to do than make laws about what we do in the privacy of our own home. I would also point out that these pervert Republicans NEVER run on such issues. I would just love to see someone say "Elect me! I will ban vibrators and sex with dogs!"

Actually they hide behind this "protection of marriage" BS and how it will "protect the sanctity" of marriage (like Tiger Woods marriage) and then go for an outright ban of homosexual activity in private. They are disingenuous perverts. You want to protect marriage? Do away with the "marriage penalty" tax.

Again, if your only arguments are that it is because we might have sex with dogs or that we should leave if we don't like it...give it up Danno. You are completely out of ammunition when you tell a fellow citizen to "get out" because they do not agree with you.

I win!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ahh MC, not only are you avoiding my points... you are now shadow boxing.

I don't believe I even brought "Children" into the conversation... you did.

I simply pointed to laws which forbid family members from getting married or even having sex, no need to assume I meant children.

Speaking of avoiding points.

Give me a reason that we will benefit from a ban of certain (to be determined by a committee of other people as they see fit) sexual activity between consenting adults in the privacy of their bedroom?

No children, no relatives, no animals (none of that ever had anything to do with this argument and the mention of any of it is a weakness)

be direct and stick to the topic...no avoidance Danno.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So Danno destroys your argument and you can't take him seriously?

Of course you can't. Of course most fools thought Obama was the next Jesus Christ and look how that's gotten us. :lmao:

Danno has done nothing but avoid the argument. I never thought Obama was anything more than a two-bit community organizer...I was right. So what? Another argument avoidance tactic

However, for the record, if we ever choose debate teams...you can have MC

Edited September 19, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You are wrong. I do not believe what you suggest I believe about how laws are made - the difference is that I believe that morality is and should be a man made construct based on basic concepts of equality not something dictated to us by 'god'.

I did explain how and why adults should not have sex with children, such sexual relations are necessarily predatory and all predatory sex is based on a fundamental inequality - a child is not equipped with the skills required to make an informed decision on sex with anyone, let alone an adult. Are you seriously trying to suggest that you have no idea why relationships between adults and children are not and should not be on an equal footing? I find that incredible, particularly with your vehemence as regards discipline, your support of spanking and your abhorrence of adults who treat children as 'friends' rather than keeping them in their proper place.

As to hiding behind the 'it's the way things are done' in the US instead of owning that you would relish punishing homosexuals...

Morality should be applied to oneself and nothing else. It should not be a basis of any law imposed on others. Actions which have no effect on other people outside those that can consent to such actions have no basis in being judged or legislated by others.

Danno is welcome to impose whatever restrictions he wishes on his life and that of his family, if they consent also, but he can just damn well keep his ideas out of my bedroom. They don't seem like fun at all.

[Danno 1,228]

Again, if your only arguments are that it is because we might have sex with dogs or that we should leave if we don't like it...give it up Danno. You are completely out of ammunition when you tell a fellow citizen to "get out" because they do not agree with you.

That wasn't my argument at all.. perhaps in all your speech making, you missed it.

My point is a simple one: People do and always have used common morals to guide the laws in which they live under.

Tell me now G&A, what country in the world best represents your position on these matters.... and why don't you live there? (not that I am trying to push you )

ONe of the things I love about the USA is how most people can find a place that suites them because we still have a bit of State authority left.

I'm not sure you can find a State in which you are insulated from the laws ... just because you are behind the door of your home or motel room.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Danno

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

That wasn't my argument at all.. perhaps in all your speech making, you missed it.

My point is a simple one: People do and always have used common morals to guide the laws in which they live under.

Tell me now G&A, what country in the world best represents your position on these matters.... and why don't you live there? (not that I am trying to push you )

ONe of the things I love about the USA is how most people can find a place that suites them because we still have a bit of State authority left.

I'm not sure you can find a State in which you are insulated from the laws ... just because you are behind the door of your home or motel room.

Ho hum. More avoidance.

The COUNTRY that best represents my belief that adults should be able to have whatever sex they like in their own bedroom is...the UNITED STATES! Happy now? I knew you would be. Oh and let me check...yes! I LIVE THERE! Imagine that. Homosexual marriage is legal in Vermont. So is public nudity and anyone can carry a handgun concealed (unless you are naked, in which case...oh NM) Yes, definitely the USA is the best place for me to live. Ok, I answered your question directly.

Again, if you could (you can't)answer mine...

How does the application of YOUR morals regarding sex between consenting adults in their own bedroom protect anyone else?

Edited September 19, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Danno 1,228]

Danno is welcome to impose whatever restrictions he wishes on his life and that of his family, if they consent also, but he can just damn well keep his ideas out of my bedroom. They don't seem like fun at all.

DUde are you in a complete fantasy world up there in Vermont?

You are debating me like my observations of the legal system are some "new and crazy idea".

These laws have been around since the founding (actually before)..... I'm simply pointing that out.... and for that your'e getting all nervous.

It's interesting you live in a country which has always embraced common moral standards.... and apparently it has worked out good enough that my suggestion of you packin-up and shipping out brought offense, don't you see the irony in that?

As you kick away the foundations on which we stand......be prepared to learn why they were put there.

[Danno 1,228]

How does the application of YOUR morals regarding sex between consenting adults in their own bedroom protect anyone else?

You know they say, sometimes when you are not getting through to someone...... another way to reach them is to whisper your point, somehow that changes the dynamics and they actually listen.

(Whispering)- Gary, I have never suggested my morals have anything to do with this topic, I have only spoke of common or community morals.

What I found interesting is your "consenting adult" phrase.... as if you get to determine what age that might be. Who left you boss over the sex lives of minors anyway.... or are you using a common moral guide?

[Peikko 1,575]

Ahh MC, not only are you avoiding my points... you are now shadow boxing.

I don't believe I even brought "Children" into the conversation... you did.

I simply pointed to laws which forbid family members from getting married or even having sex, no need to assume I meant children.

Having sex with family members is predatory in nature. Family dynamics are not based on positions of neutrality. The point is the same regardless of whether you meant adults or children. All sexual relationship that are predatory should be illegal but only predatory sexual relationships should be.

[Peikko 1,575]

Morality should be applied to oneself and nothing else. It should not be a basis of any law imposed on others. Actions which have no effect on other people outside those that can consent to such actions have no basis in being judged or legislated by others.

Danno is welcome to impose whatever restrictions he wishes on his life and that of his family, if they consent also, but he can just damn well keep his ideas out of my bedroom. They don't seem like fun at all.

Your bolded statement is a statement of morality - morality based on notions of equality. If not for morality, whether or not someone consents to anything, or whether or not ones actions have an effect on someone else are irrelevant.

[Danno 1,228]

Having sex with family members is predatory in nature. Family dynamics are not based on positions of neutrality. The point is the same regardless of whether you meant adults or children. All sexual relationship that are predatory should be illegal but only predatory sexual relationships should be.

I wan;t aware two adult siblings having sex was predatory, is it always the older one who is the predator?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How many incest relationships have you heard about where the daughter seduced the father or uncle?

I won't say its impossible, but its highly improbable to say the least.

[Peikko 1,575]

I wan;t aware two adult siblings having sex was predatory, is it always the older one who is the predator?

You are not aware of a lot of things, and no, it does not have to be the one who is older who is the predator.