Tolerance in Islam.

[Marilyn. 340]

No offense but is says something that the two biggest idiots on here support your views on this. I'd change religion if they supported anything I believed.

Had you at least admitted to the wrong doing by so many in the name of Islam, I'd have accepted your points. You do not even accept what the people who are creating disgusting videos while beheading Americans state.

I am actually bringing light to these barbaric practices. As the article pointed out: 97% of Egyptian women have been mutilated.

did you read the whole thing?

It is practiced by Muslims and Christians alike,

http://skeptically.org/hhor/id16.html

also I read this from somewhere else...

"FGM is not confined to African countries. It has no basis in Christianity, it has no basis in Islam; none of Muhammad's daughters had it done.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jul/25/female-circumcision-children-british-law

The traditional cultural practices of FGC predate Christianity and Islam. A Greek papyrus from 163 B.C. mentions girls in Egypt undergoing circumcision and it is widely accepted to have originated in Egypt and the Nile valley at the time of the Pharaohs. Evidence from mummies have shown both Type I and Type III FGC present. (Note that the earliest evidence of male circumcision is also from Ancient Egypt.)

The UNICEF reported that: "... Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, the highest religious authority in Egypt, issued a statement saying FGM/C has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practised."

Coptic Pope Shenouda, the leader of Egypt's minority Christian community, said that neither the Qur'an nor the Bible demand or mention female circumcision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting#Laws_and_prevalence

I am not saying this makes it right or anything because it clearly is not right

Edited September 16, 2010 by Marilyn.

[Heracles 417]

did you read the whole thing?

I am not saying this makes it right or anything because it clearly is not right but I am just trying to point out that it isn't solely a Muslim issue..

Find me one Christian denomination in the western world that practices this sort of thing.

[Marilyn. 340]

Find me one Christian denomination in the western world that practices this sort of thing.

hey I just quoted from your link..

[Peikko 1,575]

Democracy is about choice Cleo, Communism is about forcing your views onto others and killing off any dissent.

Islam does also have a rich history in acquiring wealth by means of looting others. Which system does that sound like to you?

Imperialism.

You need to learn to describe your ideologies better BY, seriously.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The western world outdoes everyone else in sheer scale, when it comes to genocides and atrocities. That's how it got to the top.

[TBoneTX 45,284]

No, Islam does not dictate zero tolerance for other faiths.

Then explain these, please:

1. Note: Mohammad taught Muslims to kill Jews.

Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

2. Note: Mohammad taught Muslims to kill non-Muslims.

Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

3. Note: Mohammad taught Muslims to kill people who left Islam.

Qur'an 4:089: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

---

If any of the above citations is inaccurate, please provide the correct information. If any of the citations is to be interpreted as allegory rather than literally, please quote the notable scholars who rationalize this, and explain why practitioners of the faith insist on interpreting the instructions literally. Otherwise, please justify each statement on its face (regarding general tolerance) and in light of your statement above that "Islam does not dictate zero tolerance for other faiths."

The nature and depth of your response will directly indicate your credibility and believability, or lack thereof. Thank you.

ETA: Note that I have said "please" four times and "thank you" once.

Edited September 16, 2010 by TBoneTX

[New Beginnings 32]

The principals of Christianity are extremely democratic in nature: freedom to choose, keep to ones self, peace, compassion, forgiveness etc.

The principals of Islam are akin to Communism; with the biggest being kill any dissent and sharia law.

Heracles, I've highlighted what you might need to work on.

[Heracles 417]

The western world outdoes everyone else in sheer scale, when it comes to genocides and atrocities. That's how it got to the top.

Imperialism.

You need to learn to describe your ideologies better BY, seriously.

Expanding for economic reasons is vastly different from the single reason of expanding to carry out Allah's work.

Yes, the expansion aspect was the same, but the underlying reason was not. Once again, something noted by the founding fathers of the US of A.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Expanding for economic reasons is vastly different from the single reason of expanding to carry out Allah's work.

Yes, the expansion aspect was the same, but the underlying reason was not. Once again, something noted by the founding fathers of the US of A.

Religious imperialism is largely provincial.

Economic imperialism is not.

[Heracles 417]

Then explain these, please:

1. Note: Mohammad taught Muslims to kill Jews.

Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

2. Note: Mohammad taught Muslims to kill non-Muslims.

Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

3. Note: Mohammad taught Muslims to kill people who left Islam.

Qur'an 4:089: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

---

If any of the above citations is inaccurate, please provide the correct information. If any of the citations is to be interpreted as allegory rather than literally, please quote the notable scholars who rationalize this, and explain why practitioners of the faith insist on interpreting the instructions literally. Otherwise, please justify each statement on its face (regarding general tolerance) and in light of your statement above that "Islam does not dictate zero tolerance for other faiths."

The nature and depth of your response will directly indicate your credibility and believability, or lack thereof. Thank you.

ETA: Note that I have said "please" four times and "thank you" once.

Filing in the the role of the resident deniers is BY: You are wrong um ignorant, bigoted and homophobic! Here look at this article, look at what Christians do to kids: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/portland_lemonade_stand_runs_i.html Disgusting..

Edited September 16, 2010 by Heracles

[TBoneTX 45,284]

Filing in the the role of the resident deniers is BY: You are wrong um ignorant, bigoted and homophobic!

Noted, si man, but I'm waiting with interest to hear similarly or differently from the thread participantette to whom my questions were addressed.

[Heracles 417]

Noted, si man, but I'm waiting with interest to hear similarly or differently from the thread participantette to whom my questions were addressed.

nah nah nah you're a bigot

[TBoneTX 45,284]

nah nah nah you're a bigot

Si then, man: I hate people, animals, and things. Any further questions, si man?

[Bibi and Beebti 4]

nah nah nah you're a bigot

Nice try ! It’s really so easy for you guys to pull out random passages from the Quran, remove them out of historical context, and then force people on here to justify to YOU, YOUR insinuations.

Of course most of us here can’t be bothered to have a ####### for tat with you on your level. but here’s an entire website that’s done some work on the Bible for you:

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I have limited my posting on this thread and this board not because I'm a fraud, as BY asserts, but because it's making me truly sad to see how low some people will go to present a faith and its nearly one billion and a half adherents as blood thirsty heathen murders. The lies, cherry picked history and insistence that only one side be presented as truth is seriously disheartening.

I know a lot about Islam, it's diversity, history and cultures. I've made that my life's work so I could use it to combat oppression in the service of others. There are so many good and caring people who have defended Muslims here, and pointed out contradictions in the accusations thrown at it, I appreciate that.

There are so many lies, obfuscations, distortions and falsehoods flying around, it's hard to know where to begin. I'm tired of being required to explain the SOS over and over again when it would be best if another approach could be taken that makes things clear. A book of more than 6,000 verses which contains so much beauty is being reduced to a few verses that dictate how to respond in war. And not even all the war verses, just the ones that serve a limited and very negative purpose.

Islam is more than what hateful people project onto it. It is far more like Judaism and Christianity than not. But, there are a few on this board with an evil agenda that won't allow us to move beyond their extremist understanding of a great faith. Their reductionist view and aggressive offense to anything other than minimalizing Muslims and Islam prevents an honest discourse.

I don't believe this will always be the case, but, for now it is. I don't want to become what some here have become, so, I will remove myself from the discussion until VJ figures out a way to keep bullies from dominating the board.