Christians Stabbed, Beaten With Plank Near Indonesia's Capital

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Because millions of Muslims been killed by westerns for many years, and still..look around, what is the religion of the people that thier land been destroyed?

You ever hear of the Turkish Empire ? I don't see Turks being butchered for what they did to Europeans for century's. How many Turks live in Western Europe ? Try well over a million in Germany alone.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Indonesian Christians are treated like dogs by the majority. How sad.

[Ggreen 12]

Indonesian Christians are treated like dogs by the majority. How sad.

In Israel too.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The bottom line is radicals exist in all religions, there was time when true Muslims,Christians and Jews lived in peace together under one nation.

Muslim's, Christian's, and Jew's lived together in peace under one nation ? When and where was this ?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

In Israel too.

Several Christians have been beaten and/or butchered in Egypt, Malaysia, Sudan, Phillipines, etc...

So how may Christian's have been beheaded in Israel in the past fifty years ?

[Darnell 8,478]

Has anyone done any recent research on how many Christians and/or Westerners have immigrated to Islamic/Muslim nations vs Muslim's immigrating to the West in the past 100 years ?

Indonesia is a bit different, as there is now 5 to 6 generations of 'native Christians' - so to ask about 'those who moved' to there, is kinda hard, as most converted at one point, then have many generations after in the family, still as Christian.

----

But in more general terms, I think yer query has lots of merit to it.

[Atencio 43]

Because millions of Muslims been killed by westerns for many years, and still..look around, what is the religion of the people that thier land been destroyed?

I am sorry, explain to me the Philippines then? How many Indonesians did the westerners murder?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

So much hostility, and for what? So you can assume what my clients are going there for, why and for how long, or what industries they work in? You also assume I don't get to Europe frequently. At least I wait for you to say something stupid before accusing you of saying something stupid. I didn't say anything about temporary workers, nor travel in Europe. Why don't you just ask? You're such an angry man, it's making you paranoid.

It's too bad you don't really know anything about the ME. You're more focused on Europe, but as a nasty xenophobe, so that makes you an unreliable debater. Oh, well . . .

Are you playing us for stupid ? I doubt any of the posters on this board have an IQ lower than ten, so please don't play us for stupid.

I have several friends that have worked in Dubai, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia due to the fact that like myself, they work in the oil industry and skilled workers are in demand in those regions. The western company's send them there, they work, and then when the job is finished they fly back home to the US.

You comparing skilled Western workers on temporary work visa's vs the millions of Muslim's that have migrated to the west in the past century is like comparing Americans taking vacations in Mexico and/or buying water front vacation homes vs Mexicans pouring across the southern US border.

Take a trip to Western Europe...I used to every other year with my family...I am second generation Frisian and we tried to visit family there as often as possible. Every time we came back to visit, there were not a few more Muslims, but entire neighborhoods of Muslims. So please spare us. And you want facts ? Well seeing how you don't post them yourself, I will save you the trouble and post them for you.

http://www.meforum.org/2107/europe-shifting-immigration-dynamic

Europe's Shifting Immigration Dynamic

http://www.udel.edu/poscir/faculty/MMiller/MuslimImmigrationtoEurope(Minaret)-1.htm

Muslim Immigration to Europe

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/60829/robert-s-leiken/europes-angry-muslims

Europe's Angry Muslims

http://www.***removed***/2006/06/fjordman-what-does-muslim-immigration-cost-europe.html

Fjordman: What Does Muslim Immigration Cost Europe?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You ever hear of the Turkish Empire ? I don't see Turks being butchered for what they did to Europeans for century's. How many Turks live in Western Europe ? Try well over a million in Germany alone.

Germans enjoyed being colonialists in the Third World, so did the French, English, Belgians, etc.. They weren't part of the solution, but part of the problem. For Europeans to now complain about foreigners that they once exploited because they've reciprocated the "favor" on their soil is laughable.

Seriously.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Atencio 43]

Your news is biased. That's why Christian attacks are hard to find. The criminals doing them are not often labeled as Christian, while Muslim criminals are always labeled as Muslim. I know Christian against Muslim crimes exist because I've helped prosecute them.

Try to think about it this way. Most of the American media is very biased toward Israel and against Palestinians, to the point where criticism of Israeli treatment of Arabs is nominal. The America press minimalizes harm done to Muslims and Arabs, and sensationalizes harm done against Israelis by Muslims and Arabs. It takes a lot of effort to get an objective view of what goes on there. The same is true for Christian on Muslim violence.

You are still doing what I said earlier. Your argument is well the Christians do the same thing. Fine, lets say for the moment that is true though I personally disagree with that, News services are whores, they will talk about anything if it is sensational. But as I said earlier, is all the Muslim attacks we read about true or not? I mean just today on an article discussing the burning of the Koran: "protesters chanting "Death to America" and "Death to Christians". Is that something made up?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

So much hostility, and for what? So you can assume what my clients are going there for, why and for how long, or what industries they work in? You also assume I don't get to Europe frequently. At least I wait for you to say something stupid before accusing you of saying something stupid. I didn't say anything about temporary workers, nor travel in Europe. Why don't you just ask? You're such an angry man, it's making you paranoid.

It's too bad you don't really know anything about the ME. You're more focused on Europe, but as a nasty xenophobe, so that makes you an unreliable debater. Oh, well . . .

When you can back up your post with actual facts...then you are debating.

Now you made reference in a post in regards to the numbers of Westerners in Muslim country's vs the numbers of Muslim's in Western country's. That's not even a debate...it's more of a laugh.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

When you have the facts, then, we can discuss them. As for now, you don't.

http://trendsupdates.com/muslim-migration-to-europe-causing-policy-changes/

"Most of western European countries have populations composed of 10 percent immigrants. In some of Europe’s biggest cities, the figure is as high as 30 percent. Some of these immigrants do not assimilate the mores of their host countries. Islam is said to be the biggest reason for this non-assimilation. This has become a challenge to host societies because Muslims comprise nearly ‘half of all new arrivals in Europe’ today, at 15-17 million people. There has been a monumental change since ‘there were almost no Muslims in Europe in the middle of the 20th century.’

Some of these host countries in Europe have stretched to the point of instituting changes ‘to accommodate the sensibilities of the newcomers.’ ‘A French law court has allowed a Muslim man to annul his marriage on the ground that his wife was not a virgin on their wedding night. The British pensions department has a policy of recognising (and giving some benefits to) “additional spouses”.’

Europeans are getting tired of such ‘accommodations’ and adjustments. A public opinion poll in Europe reveals that only 19 percent of Europeans think immigration is beneficial to their country, while 57 percent of those polled think that their country has “too many foreigners.”

These poll results have brought about policy changes from politicians who are left with no choice but hear the sentiments of the people. That is why ‘many countries are tightening their immigration laws, shifting to a skills-based immigration system and setting citizenship tests for would-be immigrants.’

Edited September 13, 2010 by Why_Me

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You are still doing what I said earlier. Your argument is well the Christians do the same thing. Fine, lets say for the moment that is true though I personally disagree with that, News services are whores, they will talk about anything if it is sensational. But as I said earlier, is all the Muslim attacks we read about true or not? I mean just today on an article discussing the burning of the Koran: "protesters chanting "Death to America" and "Death to Christians". Is that something made up?

Christians do the same thing. Why isn't that important to you? Like you said, they love the sensational, but they love the sensational in context. Muslim deaths aren't that interesting to the western media. Muslims protests no matter the number of participants) are. Christian deaths are the most sensational news.

Here is a recent quote from Martin Peretz, the owner and publisher of influential political magazine The New Republic, expressing his disdain for Muslims. He is a person who should have access to outlets that carry Muslim opinion and news, yet he is just as dense and obtuse as many of you:

But, frankly, Muslim life is cheap, most notably to Muslims. And among those Muslims led by the Imam Rauf there is hardly one who has raised a fuss about the routine and random bloodshed that defines their brotherhood. So, yes, I wonder whether I need honor these people and pretend that they are worthy of the privileges of the First Amendment which I have in my gut the sense that they will abuse.

The message is "Why bother? Muslims are not worth our time and effort to get it right." The man doesn't even know that the 1st Amendment is a right, not a privilege. At least he's honest about his views. I'm sure there are more in the media like him, who are silent about their negative views.

It reminds me of when the US was at war in Vietnam, the first war to be broadcast into every American home with a TV. Each night, the number of soldiers killed in conflict and the number of Vietnamese killed in conflict was announced. The number of dead Vietnamese was always significantly larger than the number of Vietnamese killed. I often wondered why that was so.

In Hearts and Minds, the 1974 Oscar winning film about the war, General William Westmoreland, the commander of US forces, made this revealing comment: 'The Oriental doesn't put the same high price on life as does a Westerner. Life is plentiful. Life is cheap in the Orient." We now know of the atrocities committed in that war against civilians by weary and frustrated enlisted men, and, later, by the Khmer Rouge they abandoned the country to.

Even today, there is little discussion of some events merely because they do not fit the prominent paradigm in the west. That is why the lazy among us do not know that Muslims have long and loudly spoken out against Muslim terrorism. It is ironic that with all the technology we have access to, much is still hidden, and what is discussed is so redundant and inaccurate.

So, no. I don't believe everything I read. I realize that all communication media has agendas, and as someone who watches and reads the media with a critical eye, I simply know better than to do that.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

When you can back up your post with actual facts...then you are debating.

Now you made reference in a post in regards to the numbers of Westerners in Muslim country's vs the numbers of Muslim's in Western country's. That's not even a debate...it's more of a laugh.

You tend to make me laugh out loud. I'm fine with returning the favor. Your sphincter muscle could use the rest.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

You tend to make me laugh out loud. I'm fine with returning the favor. Your sphincter muscle could use the rest.