If muslims are terrorists

[Peikko 1,575]

Of course we can learn from the Extremists.

We need to know why.

If Islam is a peaceful religeon and does not support the actions of the extremists terroizing the world then why do the believe they are doing so in the name of their religeon?

Why do any extremists do what they do in the name of any religion? It is not confined to extremist muslims and it is not as if one can't find examples world wide of extremist actions undertaken in the name of any and all of them, and indeed if you want to bunch non believers into some kind of homogeneous grouping, in the name of atheism. The question is, why is it necessary to look for a common denominator instead of looking at each case on its own, admittedly extremely dubious merits? People/humans do terrible things and the motivations are a lot more interesting than they do it because their credo isn't really as peaceful as you are being led to believe. More importantly, if we have any hope of changing our world into one where people can successfully co-exist despite holding different, but legitimate belief system we have to examine the root causes not just palm it off as simply an inevitable result of allowing barbaric and uncivilised belief systems.

[evli1966 88]

Why do any extremists do what they do in the name of any religion? It is not confined to extremist muslims and it is not as if one can't find examples world wide of extremist actions undertaken in the name of any and all of them, and indeed if you want to bunch non believers into some kind of homogeneous grouping, in the name of atheism. The question is, why is it necessary to look for a common denominator instead of looking at each case on its own, admittedly extremely dubious merits? People/humans do terrible things and the motivations are a lot more interesting than they do it because their credo isn't really as peaceful as you are being led to believe. More importantly, if we have any hope of changing our world into one where people can successfully co-exist despite holding different, but legitimate belief system we have to examine the root causes not just palm it off as simply an inevitable result of allowing barbaric and uncivilised belief systems.

I do not agree.

I do not mean to use Islam as the example; BTW

If the so called abportion bombers/killers were acting as Christians trying to protect life (in their own minds) . what scriptures are they reading, what passages in the Holy Bible told them to Kill another person?

If they are taking these passages out of context it is up to the leaders of this faith to find and denounce the actions and teach the truth of their religeon. If the extremists wll not repent or still act out then they should be cast out and done so openly and publicly so all know they are nothing to the religeon.

willit stop them no but it will show the world they do not support nor does their religeon support such actions.

[Peikko 1,575]

I do not agree.

I do not mean to use Islam as the example; BTW

If the so called abportion bombers/killers were acting as Christians trying to protect life (in their own minds) . what scriptures are they reading, what passages in the Holy Bible told them to Kill another person?

If they are taking these passages out of context it is up to the leaders of this faith to find and denounce the actions and teach the truth of their religeon. If the extremists wll not repent or still act out then they should be cast out and done so openly and publicly so all know they are nothing to the religeon.

willit stop them no but it will show the world they do not support nor does their religeon support such actions.

In the west we don't question whether a violent act is un-christian despite who commits it, we have enough background with the faith to KNOW that it isn't. A christian may well be totally anti-abortion BUT killing to try to stop it is UNCHRISTIAN. What part of that escapes you?

Or are you seriously going to sit there and claim that if some fundamentalist christian points to some versus that seem to support their actions you're going to revise your view on what being a christian means?

Edited September 12, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Sofiyya 1,687]

If Islam is a peaceful religeon and does not support the actions of the extremists terroizing the world then why do the believe they are doing so in the name of their religeon?

Do you really believe that violence has only happened in the name of Islam?

[evli1966 88]

In the west we don't question whether a violent act is un-christian despite who commits it, we have enough background with the faith to KNOW that it isn't. A christian may well be totally anti-abortion BUT killing to try to stop it is UNCHRISTIAN. What part of that escapes you?

Or are you seriously going to sit there and claim that if some fundamentalist christian points to some versus that seem to support their actions you're going to revise your view on what being a christian means?

That is not what I said.

By understanding where their twisted logic comes from whether it be scripture that is misinterpreted we can hopefully make a change.

Also I stated (please do not make me repeat) if they do not change then it should be publicly Denounced and they be cast out. If all christians of all denominations stood and cast thm out then the world would see them as a farce.

Do you really believe that violence has only happened in the name of Islam?

Doyou really think that about me.

Please read the post after that one.

[Amby 490]

evil - it's ok I was just being silly!

[Peikko 1,575]

That is not what I said.

By understanding where their twisted logic comes from whether it be scripture that is misinterpreted we can hopefully make a change.

Also I stated (please do not make me repeat) if they do not change then it should be publicly Denounced and they be cast out. If all christians of all denominations stood and cast thm out then the world would see them as a farce.

Doyou really think that about me.

Please read the post after that one.

Do you understand the word 'implicit'? If not, look it up.

It is what you said, even though you do not know it. By the way 'casting out' is not a christian value - locking them up for their criminal actions is.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Good Muslim, Bad Muslim? Gov. Paterson Inserts Foot -- Again

David Gibson

Religion Reporter

POSTED:

08/27/10

New York Gov. David Paterson has sought to be a peacemaker in the viral dispute over building an Islamic center near ground zero, suggesting the mosque be moved a few blocks farther away and even offering state land for a new site.

But the hapless Paterson can never seem to escape his penchant for self-inflicted wounds -- a habit on display in this week's report that he may be investigated for perjury in connection with a probe over World Series tickets, and a habit that was reinforced with news of his unfortunate efforts to characterize different types of Muslims.

Paterson's Muslim fumble came in an interview with the CBS affiliate in New York on Thursday when he tried to distinguish the Muslims behind Park51, the so-called "ground zero mosque," from the terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center two blocks away on 9/11.

"This group who has put this mosque together, they are known as the Sufi Muslims. This is not like the Shiites," Paterson said. "They're almost like a hybrid, almost Westernized. They are not really what I would classify in the sort of mainland [sic] Muslim practice."

Oops. Like a hybrid? Almost Westernized? Anything that helps Americans learn more about the differences within Islam is a good thing. But on the other hand, too little knowledge -- as well as a seemingly condescending attitude -- can strike some the wrong way. And did . . .

"Governor Paterson's comments are grossly misinformed and will be used to support the false notion that mainstream Muslims are somehow incapable of being productive citizens," said Faiza N. Ali, an official of the New York branch of the advocacy group CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "Responsible leaders should refrain from mainstreaming misinformation about Islam and instead reach out to the Muslim community and its leaders. Of particular concern is the governor's derogatory description of Shia (Shiite) Muslims."

Experts on Islam were equally dismayed.

"I think Gov. Paterson is firmly in the percentage of the American population that admits it knows nothing about Islam," Hussein Rashid, a professor of religion at Hofstra University on Long Island, told CBS.

A recent Pew survey showed that 55 percent of respondents say they do not know very much or know nothing at all about Islam and its practices, 35 percent say they know some about the religion, and just 9 percent say they know a great deal. (And who knows how many in that last category ascribe to the popular bumper sticker wisdom, "All I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11"?)

Truth be told, Americans, despite their religious fervor, tend to be far too uninformed and even misinformed about other religions and even their own faith. And that goes for journalists as well as politicians.

And Islam, even more so than Mormonism, is relatively new in the American scene, and is as complex in its various manifestations as Christianity or Judaism. So Paterson's effort may have been well-meaning but it was probably destined to go awry.

For the record, here's the thumbnail version of the different streams of Islam:

There are three main branches of Islam – Sunni, Shiite and Sufi. Sunnis make up almost 85 percent of the Muslim population globally, while Shiites account for perhaps 13 percent. (Sunnis are estimated to account for about 90 percent of U.S. Muslims.) Sunnis and Shiites split in the 7th century over who should succeed the Prophet Muhammad.

Sufism is a far smaller, mystical branch of Islam, more a type of Islamic practice than a stand-alone denomination. Besides Feisal Abdul Rauf, the imam behind the Lower Manhattan Islamic center, the 13th-century Persian poet Rumi was probably the best-known exemplar of Sufism to most Americans (followed by Yusuf Islam, the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens, who became a Sufi Muslim).

Sufism is much smaller than the other two branches, and to make matters more complicated, its adherents can identify as either Sunni or Shiite. And Sufis are often the object of prejudice and persecution from other Muslims, as William Dalrymple explained in a recent New York Times op-ed.

Wahhabism, usually called Salafism by Muslims, is the polar opposite of Sufism: It is a fundamentalist form of Islam popular in Saudi Arabia and it espouses the kind of strict, literal view of the Koran associated with Osama bin Laden and the 9/11 terrorists.

Still, even if Paterson or any politician was well-versed in these distinctions, to be seen as classifying types of Muslims into categories of "good" and "bad" is likely to be a losing proposition.

And to be categorizing the "good" ones as those who are most "Western," or like "us," is also not going to be appreciated -- or clarifying.

Which Westerners, for example, are Muslims to emulate? Pundits periodically opine that what Islam really needs is a Protestant Reformation or a Catholic pope or an Enlightenment -- as if any of those movements and structures has been without its terrible and dark chapters.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Actually, I'm more concerned that you follow people like Atlas Shrugged blogger Pamela Geller and her hero hater, Geert Wilders.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8969583696705370218#docid=-8909687683136312120

Geert Wilders is a "hater" ?

Do you have a clue as to what has been going on in the Netherlands in regards to culture clashes? You do not have a clue about Dutch culture.

[Peikko 1,575]

Geert Wilders is a "hater" ?

Do you have a clue as to what has been going on in the Netherlands in regards to culture clashes? You do not have a clue about Dutch culture.

You do not think he is? You do know he's on trial in the Netherlands for incitement to hatred, right?

[Darnell 8,479]

Sofiyya - that's just priceless - Paterson's Muslim fumble . Wow. But hey - lets be honest, a bit, ok ? It's not Gov Paterson that's making these gaffes - it's HIS STAFF and their skills , or lack thereof, in RESEARCH. He relies on what his staff tells him, they prepare notes and position papers based on their research, he reads it, digests it, and spews forth.

Oh well, more silliness to follow, I suppose - this is gonna hurt him , both short term and long term.

[Peikko 1,575]

Sofiyya - that's just priceless - Paterson's Muslim fumble . Wow. But hey - lets be honest, a bit, ok ? It's not Gov Paterson that's making these gaffes - it's HIS STAFF and their skills , or lack thereof, in RESEARCH. He relies on what his staff tells him, they prepare notes and position papers based on their research, he reads it, digests it, and spews forth.

Oh well, more silliness to follow, I suppose - this is gonna hurt him , both short term and long term.

The point is that in the west we are conversant with what constitutes christian and what not when it comes to acts of violent protestation. When it comes to the muslim religion, most Americans assume that there is some branch of the muslim religion that condones and promotes violent protestation. It's really that simple.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Sofiyya - that's just priceless - Paterson's Muslim fumble . Wow. But hey - lets be honest, a bit, ok ? It's not Gov Paterson that's making these gaffes - it's HIS STAFF and their skills , or lack thereof, in RESEARCH. He relies on what his staff tells him, they prepare notes and position papers based on their research, he reads it, digests it, and spews forth.

Oh well, more silliness to follow, I suppose - this is gonna hurt him , both short term and long term.

And, that's exactly what the Islam haters on this forum do. I've said before that their bumbling reflect their shoddy, limited research. But, then, shoddy research results when you don't care enough to do due diligence and/or when you don't think your audience knows any better and that they won't recognize your mistakes.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

You do not think he is? You do know he's on trial in the Netherlands for incitement to hatred, right?

And you do know that a majority of media outlets are supporting Geert ? It's called "freedom of speech". He is just telling it like it is.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

And you do know that a majority of media outlets are supporting Geert ? It's called "freedom of speech". He is just telling it like it is.

A majority of media outlets? Prove it.

Geert Wilders is a "hater" ?

Do you have a clue as to what has been going on in the Netherlands in regards to culture clashes? You do not have a clue about Dutch culture.

Yes, I have relatives who live there. Muslim relatives, one is a brother who has been there since 1973. If you can't admit he is hateful, then, you must not know much about him.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Sofiyya