Here's What's the Matter With Kansas

[Heracles 417]

All he has to do is say "spook" and you show up? You two scare me.

He gets a ####### when I mention him.

[mawilson 2,133]

ps. Heracles made your point better than you did. For shame, brother.

He doesn't make points, just copies and pastes stuff from liberal blogs.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The US had the largest boom in its history during the same time period that it also had the highest tax rates on the highest earners.

The country did the best when the majority of Americans earned a good salary, which also happens to coincide with the aforementioned time period.

Even more interesting is how the equivalent period is being successfully repeated in Australia today. A country recognized and internationally revered for their robust economy in this global crisis.

What is the tax rate for the top 1% in Australia?

[mawilson 2,133]

What is the tax rate for the top 1% in Australia?

45 percent for income over AUD $180,000

[^_^ 5,021]

Your example was anecdotal.

No kidding.

You said you don't understand the OP's argument that about income inequality growing here in America or that the Middle Class is an endangered species based on your own personal existence.

I said that? No... actually, I didn't. I am beginning to see why you annoy Heracles so much.

I'm saying for most middle to lower income families, your personal experience doesn't hold true.

That may or may not be true. What I'm saying to you is the narrative implying conflict between the middle class and corporations doesn't ring true for me and people like me. What I've also said (in a reply to Heracles) is that there are a lot of people like me. My problem is with the narrative. I think it's a losing one.

I'd go even further to suggest that if you look solely at your wife's salary as benchmark for income growth, you'd be less inclined to think this way.

If I looked solely at my wife's salary, I'd be on Prozac. But fortunately, most teachers I know here have spouses who do well. It's certainly not an appropriate profession for the primary earner.

[chri'stina 190]

All he has to do is say "spook" and you show up? You two scare me.

Yeah, that IS scary haha.

[Heracles 417]

revered?

Yes A.j, outside the tiny little world of OT VJ, there are a hundreds of international reports, many from American organizations, discussing the huge success of the Australian economy in this global crisis.

After all, while New Jersey's governor talks a big game, they are the ones who just dropped their unemployment to 5.1%.

[^_^ 5,021]

Yes A.j, outside the tiny little world of OT VJ, there are a hundreds of international reports, many from American organizations, discussing the huge success of the Australian economy in this global crisis.

Revere is a tad strong.

[Heracles 417]

That may or may not be true. What I'm saying to you is the narrative implying conflict between the middle class and corporations doesn't ring true for me and people like me. What I've also said (in a reply to Heracles) is that there are a lot of people like me. My problem is with the narrative. I think it's a losing one.

Lots of people does not mean the average.

Find a list in 2010 that compares various aspects of a country and I guarantee you that the US will rank poorly on the list. During the 40 to the 60s, the same US was on the top of petty-much all lists.

If I looked solely at my wife's salary, I'd be on Prozac. But fortunately, most teachers I know here have spouses who do well. It's certainly not an appropriate profession for the primary earner.

I thought your governor said teachers are killing it and do not deserve any pay. Now you admit they are underpaid and must rely on secondary income.

[^_^ 5,021]

Lots of people does not mean the average.

I didn't imply otherwise.

I thought your governor said teachers are killing it and do not deserve any pay. Now you admit they are underpaid and must rely on secondary income.

Governor Christie didn't say they don't deserve any pay. Characterize the argument properly and then we can have a discussion.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

What I'm saying to you is the narrative implying conflict between the middle class and corporations doesn't ring true for me and people like me. What I've also said (in a reply to Heracles) is that there are a lot of people like me. My problem is with the narrative. I think it's a losing one.

The profit motive, by default, creates a conflict between a worker's own personal interests and the bottom line. It may not seem to hold true because your salary and benefits are competitive because you are highly specialized with a marketable skill set. Your salary is also indirectly effected by unions who have fought long and hard for things such as overtime, workers compensation, vacation pay, etc. I've never suggested that corporations are evil, just that they look out for their own interests, which often cause them to be in direct conflict with other's interests, including their employees.

If I looked solely at my wife's salary, I'd be on Prozac. But fortunately, most teachers I know here have spouses who do well. It's certainly not an appropriate profession for the primary earner.

There are a lot of teachers who are the primary wage earner or the sole wage earner. But my point is that in terms of income growth, your wife's profession is not a very good benchmark.

I thought your governor said teachers are killing it and do not deserve any pay. Now you admit they are underpaid and must rely on secondary income.

+1

[Heracles 417]

Governor Christie didn't say they don't deserve any pay. Characterize the argument properly and then we can have a discussion.

Teachers are last to get their shitty 2% pay rise during booms times, when everyone is doing well and sneers at then. Yet the first to be hated on, when the economy tanks, because of the actions [negligence] of the same people now hating on them.

I've traveled around the US and yes while anecdotal as you guys call it, the level of poverty visible here is something I have never seen before in Australia or numerous other first world countries. Like I said the other week, poor areas are a minority in AUS, while middle class and wealthy areas are the majority.

It's the total opposite here, while there are pockets of middle-class and wealthy, a vast section of America is now living in what is by definition considered the third world abroad. LIke any third world countries, there are pockets of people doing extremely well.

Heck I saw it in India. If someone came along and lived my friend's family lifestyle, they'd think India offers the best life possible. As I recall it's you of all people who argued otherwise regarding this point; illustrating how the rest live - the norm.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Heracles

[^_^ 5,021]

I've never suggested that corporations are evil, just that they look out for their own interests, which often cause them to be in direct conflict with other's interests, including their employees.

I agree with this, actually. However, it is important for people to learn how to manage their skillsets and their careers. The days of the paternalistic company or union are long-gone. And I know it may sound like a lot of work but it isn't. Managing your own career is not that difficult. One of the biggest barriers to it is the fact that quality healthcare is still linked to large-group policies. Thankfully, that goes away starting 2014. One at a time, all those barriers that prevent you from being an entrepreneur-of-one are coming down and you will no longer need the paternalistic union or company to "care" for you.

There are a lot of teachers who are the primary wage earner or the sole wage earner.

I am aware. That is unfortunate.

[chri'stina 190]

Teachers are last to get their shitty 2% pay rise during booms times, when everyone is doing well and sneers at then. Yet the first to be hated on, when the economy tanks, because of the actions [negligence] of the same people now hating on them.

I've traveled around the US and yes while anecdotal as you guys call it, the level of poverty visible here is something I have never seen before in Australia or numerous other first world countries. Like I said the other week, poor areas are a minority in AUS, while middle class and wealthy areas are the majority.

It's the total opposite here, while there are pockets of middle-class and wealthy, a vast section of America is now living in what is by definition considered the third world abroad. LIke any third world countries, there are pockets of people doing extremely well.

Heck I saw it in India. If someone came along and lived my friend's family lifestyle, they'd think India offers the best life possible. As I recall it's you of all people who argued otherwise regarding this point; illustrating how the rest live - the norm.

How many US cities have you visited exactly? Do you take road trips or just fly everywhere? I have taken many road trips up and down the east coast between FL and NY, plus road trips towards the west all the way up to Illinois. I haven't been as far west as California yet, but this side of the country, I have driven all over it. Not sure what you are talking about.

[^_^ 5,021]

How many US cities have you visited exactly? Do you take road trips or just fly everywhere? I have taken many road trips up and down the east coast between FL and NY, plus road trips towards the west all the way up to Illinois. I haven't been as far west as California yet, but this side of the country, I have driven all over it. Not sure what you are talking about.

Poverty in the US? Drive through any inner city on a nice summer afternoon.

It's like poverty is on parade.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Legacy member