EU decries 'barbaric' plans to stone Iranian woman

[^_^ 5,021]

... I heard this from an Iranian source, not some US or UK commentator.

Was your Iranian source someone who would be privy to the data necessary to reach such a conclusion?

Or is your Iranian source the lady you play Poker with on Facebook?

[Amby 490]

I just remembered I read something the other day that makes me think the alternative may be hanging.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

That is clearly the point

Please educate me what facist country creates its laws and penalties based directly on the bible.

When I was growing up, this country did. In the area on the east coast where my family had a home, they were called the "Blue Laws". People were criminally punished for adulatory. You could not buy liquor on Sunday (that is still the law in some areas of the US). There was no penalty for raping your wife because the law viewed her as property. Honor killing was excused; if a man found his wife being intimate with another man, he could legally kill her in a fit of passion. Even segregation, Jim Crow laws, were Biblically based. Blacks were considered to be the decadents of Ham and, therefore, cursed by God to serve their superiors. All of this was based on hardline Christian interpretations of the Bible.

[^_^ 5,021]

When I was growing up, this country did. In the area on the east coast where my family had a home, they were called the "Blue Laws". People were criminally punished for adulatory. You could not buy liquor on Sunday (that is still the law in some areas of the US). There was no penalty for raping your wife because the law viewed her as property. Honor killing was excused; if a man found his wife being intimate with another man, he could legally kill her in a fit of passion. Even segregation, Jim Crow laws, were Biblically based. Blacks were considered to be the decadents of Ham and, therefore, cursed by God to serve their superiors. All of this was based on hardline Christian interpretations of the Bible.

+1

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The bible states Thou shalt not kill or Wages of sin are ........... but in most if societies laws like adultry do not carry death penalties if they are even charged. It is only the Islamic countries that do not allow it's people to reject those laws so they can maintain its control on its people and keep for the most part woman subjicated below men.

The peaceful religeon you are trying to teach me and others about have some hideous practices which are on going. (the laws of these countries are based off Islamic religon laws.)

It is hard for someone non muslim to believe in the Islamic peacefullness when practices like these are allowed.

The Quran states that to kill one innocent is to kill all the world. The Quran does not condone nor prescribe death for adultery. It certainly is not only Muslim countries that have dictatorships and total control over it's population. China and Korea come to mind.

The laws of most Muslim countries are not based on Islamic law. Saudi Arabia, for exmple, has no codified law. It's sentences are culturally based, predating Islam, and influenced, in part, by a small religious sect favored by the Saud family, not God.

What countries do is far more about the preferences of its leaders than the actual teachings of any faith.

I have to wonder about people who insist that 1/5 of the world's population is dominated by an evil God and a corrupt legacy. It is very telling that they have not bothered to insist on objective resources rather than allowing intellectual laziness to color their beliefs. It is sad indeed that this is the current state of things, but it is part of the history of this country to demonize a group to contrast their perceived moral superiority. The Cold War is over, a new boogey man is needed, and Muslim/Islam are conveniently the "Them" in juxtaposition to the Holy "Us".

[evli1966 88]

When I was growing up, this country did. In the area on the east coast where my family had a home, they were called the "Blue Laws". People were criminally punished for adulatory. please provide state and time era. You could not buy liquor on Sunday (that is still the law in some areas of the US). Of course lets Stone people to death or give them the Noose for drinking. ( I know this is probably the most enforced blue law in the staes) There was no penalty for raping your wife because the law viewed her as property. Honor killing was excused; if a man found his wife being intimate with another man, he could legally kill her in a fit of passion. Again please provide place and time era when this was enforced or allowed. Even segregation, Jim Crow laws, were Biblically based. Blacks were considered to be the decadents of Ham and, therefore, cursed by God to serve their superiors. All of this was based on hardline Christian interpretations of the Bible. Ahahha ignorance is bliss you need more study time of the bible ( I understand your knowledge is Quran)

I did a quick search of some of my study materials and this is what I found regarding what you stated and the Curse of Ham or slavery

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/2007/0202.asp

You state that “White Christians have often used the Bible to convince themselves that owning slaves is OK and the slaves should obey their ‘earthly masters’.” You are correct. Regrettably and shamefully, “White” people claiming to be Christians have frequently taken verses of Scripture out of context to justify the most despicable acts. I could argue that most of these people were not really Christians; they were not really born again but were adhering to a form of Christianity for traditional or national reasons. Nevertheless, I think we have to concede that there are genuine “White” Christians who have believed the vilest calumnies about the nature of “Black” people and have sought support for their disgraceful views from the pages of the Bible.

Some “White” Christians have assumed that the so-called “curse of Ham” (Genesis 9:25) was to cause Ham’s descendents to be black and to be cursed. While it is likely that African peoples are descended from Ham (Cush, Phut, and Mizraim), it is not likely that they are descended from Canaan—the curse was actually declared on Canaan, not Ham.

Please use the link to read more.

For the most part Soff there have been Blue laws for a long time and which are being weeded out as ignorant laws.

It is hard to believe you had Adultry laws where you lived that were enforced.

+1

Shame on you for what?

[^_^ 5,021]

?

Shame on you for what?

+1

When I was growing up, this country did. In the area on the east coast where my family had a home, they were called the "Blue Laws". People were criminally punished for adulatory. You could not buy liquor on Sunday (that is still the law in some areas of the US). There was no penalty for raping your wife because the law viewed her as property. Honor killing was excused; if a man found his wife being intimate with another man, he could legally kill her in a fit of passion. Even segregation, Jim Crow laws, were Biblically based. Blacks were considered to be the decadents of Ham and, therefore, cursed by God to serve their superiors. All of this was based on hardline Christian interpretations of the Bible.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'll tell you what else, evi. When I was a young adult, the newspaper, the Washington Post, divided job postings by race and sex. White women, White men, "Colored" women and "Colored" men all had their categories limiting the types of jobs they could apply for. We could not shop on Sunday; stores had to be closed by law. There were many places we could not go or eat or lodge at when traveling because we were not "White enough" or "Christian". Churches were, and remain, the most racially segregated places in most towns. The death penalty, based on an eye for an eye, was disproportionately alloted to Blacks. Muslim children were routinely removed from Muslim parents to be raised as Christians by "wholesome" Christian families. The same was done to Native American children, condoned by the government that allowed Christian missionaries to run roughshod over their reservation charges, Much of this debasement was shared by Jews, also the "Other", who bonded together with other minority groups and rebel Christians to try to change things for the better.

I remember this about Christian America of my youth, and I'm only 59 years old. I'm also Arab, and I know how hypocritical it is to denounce my faith, which most non-Muslims know so LITTLE about, when there was so much wrong done in the name of Christianity in my lifetime, not just in the US, but in other Christian dominated countries, like South Africa.

Denial is a luxury not everyone has access to.

[^_^ 5,021]

I'll tell you what else, evi. When I was a young adult, the newspaper, the Washington Post, divided job postings by race and sex. White women, White men, "Colored" women and "Colored" men all had their categories limiting the types of jobs they could apply for. We could not shop on Sunday; stores had to be closed by law. There were many places we could not go or eat or lodge at when traveling because we were not "White enough" or "Christian". Churches were, and remain, the most racially segregated places in most towns. The death penalty, based on an eye for an eye, was disproportionately alloted to Blacks. Muslim children were routinely removed from Muslim parents to be raised as Christians by "wholesome" Christian families. The same was done to Native American children, condoned by the government that allowed Christian missionaries to run roughshod over their reservation charges, Much of this debasement was shared by Jews, also the "Other", who bonded together with other minority groups and rebel Christians to try to change things for the better.

I remember this about Christian America of my youth, and I'm only 59 years old. I'm also Arab, and I know how hypocritical it is to denounce my faith, which most non-Muslims know so LITTLE about, when there was so much wrong done in the name of Christianity in my lifetime, not just in the US, but in other Christian dominated countries, like South Africa.

Denial is a luxury not everyone has access to.

Another +1 for you.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Again please provide place and time era when this was enforced or allowed.

I'm not going to do all the heavy lifting for you. I've told you this before. You are going to have to do the work to prove me wrong, as I have spent too much of my precious time during our religious holy days trying to explain why much of what Islam is accused of is not endorsed by it at all. I lived during that time and felt the effects of what it is like when one group dominates others by virtue of their faith and race. I remember vividly the court cases and the rancor around them that brought about change, often against popular opinion.

None of what is happening now is new to me. Been there, done that. But, you, evi, need to find it for yourself and, God willing, learn and grow from it to draw justice from it. George Washington said, in a letter to a Jewish synagogue, "It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights." No group in America can be willfully allowed to curb the God-given rights of another because they refuse to share the stage.

[mawilson 2,133]

Another +1 for you.

Get a room, you two.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Thank you, aj. I will try to step down from my soapbox for the night. Enjoy your evening, everyone.

[evli1966 88]

I'll tell you what else, evi. When I was a young adult, the newspaper, the Washington Post, divided job postings by race and sex. White women, White men, "Colored" women and "Colored" men all had their categories limiting the types of jobs they could apply for. We could not shop on Sunday; stores had to be closed by law. There were many places we could not go or eat or lodge at when traveling because we were not "White enough" or "Christian". Churches were, and remain, the most racially segregated places in most towns. The death penalty, based on an eye for an eye, was disproportionately alloted to Blacks. Muslim children were routinely removed from Muslim parents to be raised as Christians by "wholesome" Christian families. The same was done to Native American children, condoned by the government that allowed Christian missionaries to run roughshod over their reservation charges, Much of this debasement was shared by Jews, also the "Other", who bonded together with other minority groups and rebel Christians to try to change things for the better.

I remember this about Christian America of my youth, and I'm only 59 years old. I'm also Arab, and I know how hypocritical it is to denounce my faith, which most non-Muslims know so LITTLE about, when there was so much wrong done in the name of Christianity in my lifetime, not just in the US, but in other Christian dominated countries, like South Africa.

Denial is a luxury not everyone has access to.

Ahh I see you try to use history of Blue laws which have been changed, to condone laws of islamic cultures which are not changing and remaining barbaric.

the facts are the so called christian laws you so remember which no doubt were not good laws have been changed or not enforced and will be removed.

(maybe not the liquor laws)

I feel bad that you lived during those time and for anyone that experienced such things but it changes nothing in regards to what is happening in these dominate islamic countries using Quran laws and punishment on its people.

it has been said most muslims do not want these laws is that not true?

Being 44 i only vaguely remember Civil right marches and being poor white living and growing up among the black community I rememeber certain things as well and living in the south remeber more blule laws than you could possible thin about.

Most of those laws were not enforced and when it was it was done so by idoits fpor what ever reason.

[evli1966 88]

I'm not going to do all the heavy lifting for you. I've told you this before. You are going to have to do the work to prove me wrong, as I have spent too much of my precious time during our religious holy days trying to explain why much of what Islam is accused of is not endorsed by it at all. I lived during that time and felt the effects of what it is like when one group dominates others by virtue of their faith and race. I remember vividly the court cases and the rancor around them that brought about change, often against popular opinion.

None of what is happening now is new to me. Been there, done that. But, you, evi, need to find it for yourself and, God willing, learn and grow from it to draw justice from it. George Washington said, in a letter to a Jewish synagogue, "It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights." No group in America can be willfully allowed to curb the God-given rights of another because they refuse to share the stage.

Soff the information I seek from you comes from you so properr esearch is done

I may not be as educated as the rest but you will find I am not as ignorant or shut up easily. As for heavy lifting I ask nothing of you but to provide proof of staements you are making in reference to time era and place. I can look up all the laws you want and they all ended or not being enforced.

Minorities are not the only people to suffer prejudice laws and to make a statement such as you just did only makes you look smaller. Think of white tr223 when you thingk of me growing up that is what I was refered to that is what I lived with daily.

Share what stage do you believe Islamic laws need to be introduced into the US laws?

why would we want that we are fighting to keep Christian Laws from dictating US laws.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Ahh I see you try to use history of Blue laws which have been changed, to condone laws of islamic cultures which are not changing and remaining barbaric.

the facts are the so called christian laws you so remember which no doubt were not good laws have been changed or not enforced and will be removed.

(maybe not the liquor laws)

I feel bad that you lived during those time and for anyone that experienced such things but it changes nothing in regards to what is happening in these dominate islamic countries using Quran laws and punishment on its people.

it has been said most muslims do not want these laws is that not true?

Being 44 i only vaguely remember Civil right marches and being poor white living and growing up among the black community I rememeber certain things as well and living in the south remeber more blule laws than you could possible thin about.

Most of those laws were not enforced and when it was it was done so by idoits fpor what ever reason.

I, too, lived in the South. I sat in the back of the bus by law. I was fortunate enough to be light-skinned enough to pass the "paper bag test" used to determine if a person had acceptable "front office appearance" allowing them to engage with clients in public. Your vague recollections fade against really being there and going through it as a non-Christian, non-White in the South.

As far as the Middle East and Islam, if you knew what you were talking about, it would be so much easier to discuss this with you. It is getting really old reading the stupidest things from people who clearly have not a clue of what they speak, but insist on promoting the foolishness they read on Islam hating sites.

First of all, there are no Islamic countries.

Second, the Quran is about 10% legislative, and very little of that is about punishments to be imposed by Muslims, but by God on the Day of Judgment.

Third, there is Sharia law and there is fiqh law. The former is the divine law of God, the latter is the determinations of legal authorities who can use several sources to make rulings that are limited in scope and geographical range.

Sharia is the law by which observant Muslims live. It governs what they eat, how they pray, their contributions to charity, how they engage others, who they marry, etc. I pray five times a day because of Sharia. As a devout Muslim, I would not deny Sharia in my life.

The Hadd laws, stoning, cutting off of body part, etc., are the ones regularly referred to in frightening terms. Few Muslim countries, and there are about 23 Muslim countries, utilize these laws. I think fewer than a half dozen do, and by varying degrees. They are not a major issue in Muslim countries.

Now, if you, or anyone here, continue to charge Islam with brutality and barbarism, directing venom at me, they will have to do more than make simple statements with no support. A dialog or a debate worth involving myself can no longer be a one way street. I'm done with that. If minds are settled on condemning others no matter what is shared, so be it, but I will not indulge those who are not interested in giving as good as they get.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Sofiyya