This Is Why America Has A Problem With The GZ Mosque...

[Danno 1,228]

What part of they're not true Muslims and not following the true path of Islam do you fail to understand? Continuing to bury the reality of the guilt by association and bigotry toward Muslims as a whole in denial is not particularly smart, and it's inherently transparent.

How would I or any average non-muslim conclude for certain they are not True Muslims?

If we were to ask "What is a true Christian" we would get a wide definition to that answer... how much more truth would we find if we were to ask the average non-Christian..... that question?

I respect Islam enough not to wade into this theological question.

What does seem to be clear is: These Islamists we both oppose do seem to be sincere in their faith and that is the reality I deal with.

After all many people will kill in the name of religion (using it as an excuse)...

Not many will purposely Blow themselves up as a means of doing it.

[momof1 205]

Thanks for your addressing my question.

If I read you correct, you are saying Muslims contribute on a personal level to social causes but as a group they don't do what all other faiths do (Build hospitals, food banks, homeless shelters, Orphanages ETC) because these bases are already covered by others?

Come on now....with the economy as it is, I am sure there are areas where needs are not being met.

As for different faiths squabbling over providing these services, I have found the opposite to be true in fact these centers tend to bring people of various faiths together as they take turns volunteering.

Anyway I am sure there are some Muslim-lead activities which serve the community at large, I hoped some could be highlighted here to help balance the neg. news on Muslims..... so far no one has named one.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2209634760 I have friends in various cities that volunteer with Project Downtown. I know muslim doctors who are a part of Doctors without Borders and recently volunteered in Haiti and Pakistan. My BF organizes youth at her masjid to help green surrounding neighborhoods. They received a grant to buy trees and they plant those trees in the neighborhoods of interested people. Many groups volunteer with habitat for humanity, rehab for vicitms of hurricane katrina, soup kitchens in their neighborhoods..etc.

One masjid in my community runs a clinic on sundays for free with volunteer physicians. The same mosque has a food shelf. Another mosque does a yearly coat drive while another yet another mosque has a food shelf with delivery of free hot meals to those who are sick.

There are plenty things if you look for it.

[Danno 1,228]

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2209634760 I have friends in various cities that volunteer with Project Downtown. I know muslim doctors who are a part of Doctors without Borders and recently volunteered in Haiti and Pakistan. My BF organizes youth at her masjid to help green surrounding neighborhoods. They received a grant to buy trees and they plant those trees in the neighborhoods of interested people. Many groups volunteer with habitat for humanity, rehab for vicitms of hurricane katrina, soup kitchens in their neighborhoods..etc.

One masjid in my community runs a clinic on sundays for free with volunteer physicians. The same mosque has a food shelf. Another mosque does a yearly coat drive while another yet another mosque has a food shelf with delivery of free hot meals to those who are sick.

There are plenty things if you look for it.

Thats what I am doing... looking for community services which are headed up by Muslims, thanks for adding some you know of.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

How would I or any average non-muslim conclude for certain they are not True Muslims?

Good question. Average and less than average non-Muslims have been defining the problem, the actors, the faith, and the media coverage about Muslims for decades and you get little more than negative press and scary things that scare White people from them. When liberals are slanting conservatives to all sound crazy and irrational, you can tell that the coverage is presented with a bias. Why is it so hard to tell when the majority of what you read is negative toward Muslims and Islam that there must be a bias against Muslims and Islam?

One hint that they are not true Muslims is that they are crazy, irrational and violent. Islam, the faith of over billion people is not crazy, irrational or violent. It demands moderation, and denounces extremism. So, if they are crazy, irrational, violent or extreme, they are not true Muslims. If they were, that would mean that Muslims who are not crazy, irratonal, violent or extreme are the misguided Muslims, and that would be wrong.

If we were to ask "What is a true Christian" we would get a wide definition to that answer... how much more truth would we find if we were to ask the average non-Christian..... that question?

Most Christians easily dismiss anyone who commits murder, claiming to be acting in the name of Jesus, as not following the true way of Christ. Why do they assume that Muslim terrorists are acting in accordance with Islamic dictates? It's hard to believe that Islam condones terrorism, yet say you don't believe that all Muslims are terrorists. That's the same as believing that Muslims who aren't terrorists are secular and non-practicing.

I respect Islam enough not to wade into this theological question.

Cool, but you have waded into this theological question many times.

What does seem to be clear is: These Islamists we both oppose do seem to be sincere in their faith and that is the reality I deal with.

The reality that I deal with every day is that a handful of willful ignorants in the media have assisted the terrorists in hijacking my faith by redefining it to comport with extremist ideology. No knowledgeable Muslim would ever label extremists "Islamists" any more than knowledgeable Christian would accept the term "Christianists" for those who murder in the name of Jesus.

"Islamist" infers that their ideology is in sync with Islamic teaching when just the opposite is true. They are not following a faith, but an perversion ala Jim Jones at Jonestown, or McVeigh and Nichols at the Murrah building. They weren't allowed to redefine or taint a faith held by millions upon millions of rational adherents around the world. People who don't know Islam are insisting that they are qualified to determine who is a Muslim and what Islam is. They aren't.

After all many people will kill in the name of religion (using it as an excuse)...

Not many will purposely Blow themselves up as a means of doing it.

Islam forbids suicide and the killing of innocents. Any sincerity that these misguided souls have for a faith, it's not for Islam. That's a fact.

[nab 74]

KKK'ers also Identified themselves as Americans, men, women and a number of other things but they did not use these things to inspire them........ but you do bring up another angle.

There have been hundreds of thousands of people in the Klan, only a small percentage took part in crimes, is it fair to paint the group as a whole through the deeds of a few? (using the logic of some here)

The reason more and more people are concerned about Islam is because this anti-west attitude seems to be all over the place.

In so many countries, in many Mosques even on our Universities.

That doesn't make all muslims guilty by any stretch but .... fewer and fewer people perceive the problem to be "just a few crazies out there".

Acknowledging this, doesn't make people want to persecute people off the street or to outlaw Islam.... it's just facing a reality of the problem.

it's not just muslims with "anti-west" attitude LOL i know a lot of christians who are sick of the path america has taken and if they were muslims living in another country would be considered "anti-west"... so what do we call people in the US, who are just sick and tired of the pro-hollywood/anti-morality mentality in mainstream society?

i have always been anti-society in a way, so i guess for me it is odd that now, if you dont think like the sheep, you are some kind of 'extremist'. before i used to just be a oddball or a hippie

as a child i was a grown up long before my time so playing with dolls wasnt my thing. as a teenager i didnt chase boys and didnt have an interest in who had what car to take me here and there, i had two legs and could get myself where i needed to go and didnt like askign anyone for anything. i'm still like that. my friends respected our differences and loved me anyway.

i was out of the house at 16yo and never regretted that (though i sure wish i knew then what i know now LOL). i have started over with nothing so many times it would shake you up, yet i wouldnt chaneg my experiences for anything cause God-willing i will have some great stories for my grandchildren and definitely have gathered much knowledge through it all to help my offspring and theirs... and anyone else who can benefit from it. what i didnt see is when this intolerance creeped into mainstream and it not became acceptable but encouraged ....

it is so hurtful, i guess because everyone wants to be loved and accepted so to be rejected and even hated because of soemthing that is part of you, your daily life, and means more than anything... what would people have us do? change our religion because of a few bad apples?

what is the solution so that muslims who live right, dont bother anyone and DO live peacefully are not harrassed, cursed at, attacked physically... what is the solution? i can only do what my father and grandmother taught me and that is to treat all people well. when my ex walked out on me i treated him decently and people were shocked. how can you do his grocery shopping, his laundry, get cards ready for his parents birthdays etc?? becasue he was my son's father, i shared a life with him before, he was a human being who had never been out on his own so he didnt know how to do these things, and because i try to treat all people decently no matter what they've done to me. thats not to say i let him walk on me, when he came beggng back 2 weeks later i told him no thank you, an ex is an ex for a reason and shut the door on him.

i will always try to treat people decently, that's just who i am. perhaps i am more calm and peaceful becasue of my religion or maybe it was just the teachinigs of my elders, who knows. i just know islam doesnt mean to me blowing up things and harming people. and it hurts to be lumped with those people who do believe that!

Danno, you make a good point about the klan becasue over the many years there have been LOTS of members and only a few who were misled. people dont realize the klan wasnt began as a white supremacist group, they were basically a christian group formed to keep law and order, as well as uphold a moral code. so you;d better not get caught committing adultery, taking drugs, stealing, etc... otherwise the punishment could be brutal, i.e. you wanna be a "big man" and go home drunk and beat your wife and kids? then you mmight find yourself getting the snot kicked out of you by a group of members from your local klan to remind you how to treat the ones who look up to you and depend on you.

but somewhere along the way, some of them found a way to twist what the bible said... oh, blacks and whites shouldnt be together! well let's just do soemthing about that! and the group became known for being anti-any race other than white.

what about the taliban? didnt they begin basically the same? they were goign to be the morality police... except then they got into the drug trade... and you have the extremist who stone women to death for daring to attend school and so on.

how about the branch davidians? branched off extremist group...

how about the peoples temple.... although the message was a good one (living in peace and harmony) the money grubbing greed turned them to the ultimate extremist.

in every religion there are extremists except this time the media is pushing this agenda that "muslims are terrorists" ... why...

sorry for rambling, feeling really sad today.

[nab 74]

What part of they're not true Muslims and not following the true path of Islam do you fail to understand? Continuing to bury the reality of the guilt by association and bigotry toward Muslims as a whole in denial is not particularly smart, and it's inherently transparent.

AMEEN!

[nab 74]

responses inline ...and using "you" as more of a "anyone reading this" rather than a you=danno

How would I or any average non-muslim conclude for certain they are not True Muslims? that's where education comes in. educate yourself. step outside the bubble to realize more exists than just your little piece of the world with people who look just like you, have your same faith and beliefs, though they may have the same hopes, goals, and dreams.

If we were to ask "What is a true Christian" we would get a wide definition to that answer... how much more truth would we find if we were to ask the average non-Christian..... that question? thats because there are many denominations and many sects of those. widen your horizons and learn about them... if you dont care to, dont bash them if you dont know them. and you will not get a real education by doing your research on hate sites

I respect Islam enough not to wade into this theological question. i understand

What does seem to be clear is: These Islamists we both oppose do seem to be sincere in their faith and that is the reality I deal with. that is what makes them so scary, to us as well as non-muslims. but for us, they are also tearign down our religion with every bomb they explode, with every harnful act they commit. and where the anger for me comes in is this: why arent we treated equally as christians and jewish people? when a christian or jewish person goes on a killing rampage, there is no outcry from the muslim community of "burn their synagoges and churches" "we will beat you if you come in our neighborhood" and so on

After all many people will kill in the name of religion (using it as an excuse)... agreed. many religions have waged war. usually not for religion itself but for territory/property it seems ... greed is a bad thing

Not many will purposely Blow themselves up as a means of doing it. maybe not for religion but for love of country this is not an unknown thing.

Edited September 4, 2010 by nab

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Do you also fail to recall last year's Muslim bomb plotters Imam warning him by phone of FBI interest? There is an association of moderate Islam, the brush attempting to paint all Muslims in the US, with radical, no?

Once again, what does this have to do with opposition to Park 51? It's like you're trying to find excuses for your own prejudices.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Once again, what does this have to do with opposition to Park 51? It's like you're trying to find excuses for your own prejudices.

Ah the old prejudice comeback... Very clever!

Distrust and concern about Muslims, Islam, and Mosques is not a product of "prejudice" or "bigotry" but reality. It is absolutely pathetic, your attempts to simply throw out those accusations is the face of current reality.

Imam pleads guilty to lying to feds in alleged terror plot

March 04, 2010|From Jennifer Rizzo, CNN

A New York man accused in an alleged terrorist plot pleaded guilty Thursday to lying to federal agents.

Ahmad Wais Afzali, a Muslim cleric and funeral director from the New York borough of Queens, was one of the first people charged in what authorities have described as a plot to detonate bombs on New York subways.

Afzali was accused of lying about whether he tipped off suspect Najibullah Zazi that the FBI had been asking questions about his activities.

Zazi subsequently pleaded guilty to conspiring to detonate explosives in the United States.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You're the guy who seems to be promoting the idea that its ok to be prejudiced against Muslims and that acts of collective punishment against them are justified by bringing up unrelated events. I'd call that pathetic really and yes, bigoted.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

You're the guy who seems to be promoting the idea that its ok to be prejudiced against Muslims and that acts of collective punishment against them are justified by bringing up unrelated events. I'd call that pathetic really and yes, bigoted.

Pathetic is your constant tossing about 'prejudice' and 'bigot' because you misinterpret what I say, and it is inconsistent with the reality challenged world view you profess.

Vigilance and not scapegoating, trust but verify if you will. The story of the Imam who tipped off the would be NY subway bombers is just one of many and completely shatters your arguments which insist all Muslims in the US are free from Radicals, do not sympathize or assist Radicals when they are found in their midst, and relates DIRECTLY to legitimate concerns I and others have concerning this or any mosque.

I do not, have not, and will never advocate violence against Muslims for offending my sensibilities. Wish I could say the same for some followers of The Religion of Peace.

Nor do I suggest prejudice be applied uniformly to all Muslims or that practicing Islam be banned. That is your bizarro reaction to anyone with legitimate concern or criticism of Islam.

Should Islam and all Mosques be banned in the USA? No I don't believe that. Should some be monitored? Yes. And if found to be involved in Radicalization or involvement in the Radicals cause they should be shut down? Yes.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Again I ask, what does any of this have to do with opposition to Park 51?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Again I ask, what does any of this have to do with opposition to Park 51?

You ask again because you have no point of your own to make, and this is the only other tactic in your quiver after accusations of bigotry and prejudice.

I made the connection and you give either response A or B. You have nothing else.

[Danno 1,228]

it's not just muslims with "anti-west" attitude LOL i know a lot of christians who are sick of the path america has taken and if they were muslims living in another country would be considered "anti-west"... so what do we call people in the US, who are just sick and tired of the pro-hollywood/anti-morality mentality in mainstream society?

THis is one reason I have said in the Past, it serves the interest of some to keep Christians and Muslims conflicted in the US. Certainly these two groups have a lot more in common than some other factions in the US.

I know some on here assume, I have some hostility toward Muslims, I don't:: I respect them in some ways but I also understand all this wonderful Diversity also leads to conflict for groups as a whole, though individuals often can find harmony.

[Danno 1,228]

I found this interesting on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2ElSf0EsBE