This Is Why America Has A Problem With The GZ Mosque...

[ready4ONE 5,400]

My point is to prove that the muslims did not invent suicide bombing or terror tactics. Some people seem oblivious to this fact - of course, not you

You said 'something in the quran supports terrorism'. I am asking you, what?

Who invented suicide terrorist tactics is beyond the scope of the OP discussion but yes I am a history buff and reasonably knowledgeable on this subject.

I am not going to fall for the 'taking quotes out of context' trap though. Just google and you can find plenty.

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't recall anyone claiming Muslins invented suicide as a tactic, who are you referring to>?

Nor do they use suicide as a tactic.

Wasn't it you that claimed that muslim's have a monopoly on terrorism?

[Danno 1,228]

Nor do they use suicide as a tactic.

Wasn't it you that claimed that muslim's have a monopoly on terrorism?

At present they do have a near monopoly on suicide bombings..... what does that have to do with Inventing it.

And why is it someone schooled under the Crown is having such a hard time of late... with basic sentences and word definitions?

[Peikko 1,575]

Who invented suicide terrorist tactics is beyond the scope of the OP discussion but yes I am a history buff and reasonably knowledgeable on this subject.

I am not going to fall for the 'taking quotes out of context' trap though. Just google and you can find plenty.

What are you talking about, seriously? Either you have read something that leads you to the conclusion that there is something in the quran that excuses or supports terrorist tactics ore you have not. If you have, then you can explain it - I am perfectly comfortable with the explanations that I have read that conclude that neither the muslim religion nor the quran endorses terrorism. As a result I have concluded that being suspicious of American citizens who practice the muslim religion is unwarranted, as is trying to stop them from building a place of worship or enjoying a day out at a theme park to celebrate the end of Ramadan.

At present they do have a near monopoly on suicide bombings..... what does that have to do with Inventing it.

And why is it someone schooled under the Crown is having such a hard time of late... with basic sentences and word definitions?

Schooled under the Crown? What are you drinking and can I have some?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

What are you talking about, seriously? Either you have read something that leads you to the conclusion that there is something in the quran that excuses or supports terrorist tactics ore you have not. If you have, then you can explain it - I am perfectly comfortable with the explanations that I have read that conclude that neither the muslim religion nor the quran endorses terrorism. As a result I have concluded that being suspicious of American citizens who practice the muslim religion is unwarranted, as is trying to stop them from building a place of worship or enjoying a day out at a theme park to celebrate the end of Ramadan.

I am talking about, current American Muslim leaders who either espouse the Radical version of Islam, see earlier excerpt from USA Today article on US born MUSLIM CLERIC Anwar al-Aulaqi. Google good Sir Anwar and learn. Anwar has since fled the US, but remains active as an internet Islamist recruiter and spiritual leader, for some granted, hardly all.

Hasan attended the Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Falls Church in 2001, when its spiritual leader was Anwar al-Aulaqi, a figure who crossed paths with al-Qaeda associates, including two Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers, one senior U.S. official said.

Excerpt from Washington Post article, although there are many similar articles in numerous publications should you care to attempt the "biased source" gambit.

LInk: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/08/AR2009110818405.html

There you go, real world, real time, example of terrorism issues within the USA and Islam in the USA. There are more, and all efforts to discuss them with you and you conflate statements of verifiable fact into cries of prejudice and bigotry against all Muslims in the US.

I could care less if there is a special day where Muslims have reserved 6 Flags.

I consider the placement of Park 51 to be within the logical boundaries of Ground Zero since it was hit with a large portion of one of the planes, specifically a full set of landing gear, and as such I feel it is inappropriate. Inappropriate, no more, no less. That is a long way from advocating violation of thier right to do so however if that is what occurs, nor am I suggesting violent opposition to the project is appropriate under any circumstances.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How is it "inappropriate"?

It's only (I repeat ONLY) inappropriate if you are tarring all muslims with the brush of terrorism. Not to mention it totally ignores the fact that there is a very (I repeat VERY) sizeable muslim population in NYC. Next you'll be saying that it's inappropriate that they live there at all.

Round and round we go

[Peikko 1,575]

I am talking about, current American Muslim leaders who either espouse the Radical version of Islam, see earlier excerpt from USA Today article on US born MUSLIM CLERIC Anwar al-Aulaqi. Google good Sir Anwar and learn. Anwar has since fled the US, but remains active as an internet Islamist recruiter and spiritual leader, for some granted, hardly all.

There you go, real world, real time, example of terrorism issues within the USA and Islam in the USA. There are more, and all efforts to discuss them with you and you conflate statements of verifiable fact into cries of prejudice and bigotry against all Muslims in the US.

I could care less if there is a special day where Muslims have reserved 6 Flags.

I consider the placement of Park 51 to be within the logical boundaries of Ground Zero since it was hit with a large portion of one of the planes, specifically a full set of landing gear, and as such I feel it is inappropriate. Inappropriate, no more, no less. That is a long way from advocating violation of thier right to do so however if that is what occurs, nor am I suggesting violent opposition to the project is appropriate under any circumstances.

What you consider it to be, and what it actually is are quite separate things. What is appropriate to allow within your definition of what GZ constitutes by the way? Obviously mosque building is out, but what about all the other commercial and recreational activity? Why is some allowed and some not? Or do you have a fantasy of bulldozing the whole area? I would understand a blanket desire to extend the GZ site, whether or not I agreed with it, but to single out one activity and not others smacks of discrimination.

I have never denied that there are radical elements within the US muslim community - although I expect I would disagree as to how significant they really are within the US muslim community, nor do I pretend that the fact that there are these radical elements it is not problematic for the US government, but they are equally problematic for US muslims so I can't really see how this bolsters your argument and certainly in terms of whether you can discriminate against all muslims because of this, I would say absolutely not - in the same way that you can't discriminate against Americans of Mexican decent because of the % of illegal immigrants who are from Mexico - it is not ok to do this, even if on the surface it might seem pragmatic and expedient to do so.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[ready4ONE 5,400]

If I feel the placement of this mosque is innapropriate then that is how I feel. Having the opposite opinion from yours does not automatically validate all of the other assertions you make concerning why my opinion is what it is MC.

What you have stated above is a contradiction of your earlier claims in my book though. The extent, degree, and need for vigilance regarding elements of Radical Islam in the US is a law enforcement matter and national security matter. It is also a valid reason for a degree of individual concern regardless of that individuals religious beliefs. Rest assured that is my personal opinion.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm sure someone said much the same about needing to keep an eye on black people because of crime rates.

You can't disguise what it is. The only person you're fooling is yourself.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[Peikko 1,575]

If I feel the placement of this mosque is innapropriate then that is how I feel. Having the opposite opinion from yours does not automatically validate all of the other assertions you make concerning why my opinion is what it is MC.

What you have stated above is a contradiction of your earlier claims in my book though. The extent, degree, and need for vigilance regarding elements of Radical Islam in the US is a law enforcement matter and national security matter. It is also a valid reason for a degree of individual concern regardless of that individuals religious beliefs. Rest assured that is my personal opinion.

You can feel all kinds of things but if you feel a mosque is inappropriate when another commercial or recreational venture is not, then what you feel is discriminatory and no action should be taken based on discrimination. Just to put a fine point on it, do you object to the current use of the building in question, or simply its official conversion into a muslim community center and mosque?

As to my being contradictory, absolutely not. I don't equate radicalism with being muslim. There are radicals who claim to be but they still do not taint those muslims who have nothing whatsoever to do with anything illegal, radical or fanatical. That is the nature of treating individuals according to their actions, not blaming muslims for the actions of individuals - regardless of whether those individuals lay claim to being a 'religious' leader. They can claim to be whatever they like, but if they support violent revolt they are not representative of those who do not embrace illegal activity.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

How is it "inappropriate"?

It's only (I repeat ONLY) inappropriate if you are tarring all muslims with the brush of terrorism. Not to mention it totally ignores the fact that there is a very (I repeat VERY) sizeable muslim population in NYC. Next you'll be saying that it's inappropriate that they live there at all.

Round and round we go

Round and round indeed oh purveyor of circular arguments and assertions. Read what I write not what you think I will write.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Round and round indeed oh purveyor of circular arguments and assertions. Read what I write not what you think I will write.

You really need to stop with these ego displays. You'd rather talk about yourself than the topic, Ho hum.

I did read what you wrote. Prove me wrong

[nab 74]

Although both seek the same aim of a world ruled by Islamic law brought about violently if needed, the two take quite different approaches. While bin Laden keeps a low profile, al-Awlaki has hundreds of sermons on the Internet. Bin Laden's past statements issue threats and orders to Muslims to kill (perhaps you meant to say "his followers"). ; al-Awlaki's sermons explain to potential followers why the West is evil and are pocked with references to pop culture given in disarming American English.sounds like you waste spend a lot of time listening to terrorist's sermons. that explains a lot to me now re: your 'i see a boogieman in every muslim' mentality.

...

Evidence is mounting that al-Awlaki is perhaps the most dangerous enemy of the U.S. because of his ability to recruit followers and inspire attacks through e-mails and websites, the CIA says.oh my goodness do you think your email is next? maybe they're tired of bombing buildings... oh no! what if the email addys of all americans are next?

hmmm wonder if that website where you watch your "sermons" collects IPs The Arabic satellite network Al Arabiya has dubbed him the "bin Laden of the Internet."

Al-Awlaki's life began not in a Muslim enclave but in Las Cruces, N.M., a desert town not far from the Mexico border and the White Sands Missile Range. His father had gone there in 1971 from Yemen with his wife to earn a master's degree in agricultural economics at New Mexico State University. The family lived and worked in the United States until returning to Yemen in 1978, when al-Awlaki was 7. Al-Awlaki lived in Yemen for the next 11 years, during which time his father served as agriculture minister and as president of Sana University, and returned to the United States in 1991.

you jump around so much, could you connect for me why this is important factoid or are you just proud of the fact you could copy/paste from anotehr website?

....

Because I never said all Muslims in America are terrorists, all support terrorists, or are responsible as a whole for the terrorists never gets in the way of a classic MC rant...

yes, you're careful not to say it directly but inference is always there isnt it? dont be a mouse, say what you believe

But a classic MC rant does not quite erase the fact there are, in fact, terrorists within the US Muslim community and to some degree and in some concrete instances examples of sympathy for their cause. Thus there is a rational cause for some level of concern.

i think a rant must be seen in person to truly appreciate... can a proper rant even be done online?

I don't lose sleep over it. I don't advocate for locking all Muslims up in internment camps. And nothing I have ever said indicates any desire to harm or see Muslims harmed.

You keep using the word rant which implies that you have no idea what it means. Needless to say, great you do not want to completely remove human rights from muslims by interring them, but you still wish to treat all muslims as suspect simply because you are unable to distinguish between muslims and terrorists and you still see a mosque as suspicious and insensitive if it is to be built somewhere in the vicinity of GZ which is only possible because you view all muslims as potential terrorists simply because you associate the muslim religion with terrorism as apposed to seeing terrorists as fanatics who use the muslim religion to further a very human agenda.

Viewing all muslims with suspicion necessarily means they will come to harm, whether or not that harm manifests itself in a reduction of their ability to go about their day to day lives without interference (ie building a mosque and community center to service an area where they live and work) or physical harm because a climate of suspicion inevitably leads to acts of violence, as with the taxi driver who was picked on simply because he looked muslim.

Specifically it seems to me that you see the muslim religion itself as suspicious despite the fact that murder and suicide are totally anathema to the muslim religion. I can only suppose that this is a result of a belief that no matter how 'western' an American muslim seems, his religion is anti-western and he must be constantly agitating to change his surroundings to suit his beliefs. Do you view the Amish with equal suspicion? It would make about as much sense. Of course the Amish have never bombed anyone in order to change the lives of the non Amish - but muslims would argue that neither have muslims, and I would have to support that view. Terrorists use terror to bring about the changes that they wish to see, religious people bring about change by example.

awesome post

Don't be facetious, you know perfectly well that viewing with suspicion has nothing to do with physically looking at people and your obfuscated reply does not fool me one whit.

As to your profiling, profiling works best when it is conducted by those who can distinguish suspicious actions regardless of who is undertaking those actions. I don't have any problem with behavioural profiling. I do however see through your disingenuous attempt to suggest that 'being pc' leads to targeting nonsensical people all the while allowing a suspiciously acting young male with olive skin and a Quran in his jacket to nonchalantly walk through. Get a grip.

bingo!

[nab 74]

If I feel the placement of this mosque is innapropriate then that is how I feel. Having the opposite opinion from yours does not automatically validate all of the other assertions you make concerning why my opinion is what it is MC.

What you have stated above is a contradiction of your earlier claims in my book though. The extent, degree, and need for vigilance regarding elements of Radical Islam in the US is a law enforcement matter and national security matter. It is also a valid reason for a degree of individual concern regardless of that individuals religious beliefs. Rest assured that is my personal opinion.

much nicer than the garbage you've been spewing previously in the thread. quite frankly, if *I* were YOUR neighbor and all i knew of you were your online posts *I* would believe YOU are a terrorist. Spewing hatred can get you painted with a brush you may not like...

it's one thing to state you feel the building there is inappropriate, that's your opinion and you're entitled to that. but it's quite another to say this sampling of people is why we shouldnt allow liberties to anyone.

[Danno 1,228]

Schooled under the Crown? What are you drinking and can I have some?

I thought you might like that one.