This Is Why America Has A Problem With The GZ Mosque...

[nab 74]

the solution to all this hate is for parents to stop teaching their children hatred.

i'm doing my part, i hope and pray you all will do yours. i'm out

[Danno 1,228]

the bolded quote above is exactly the difference *I* have found between some of other faiths and muslims. Muslims don't seek out to do good works so they can be praised or "credited". Our eyes are on ALLAH, not on man, for our praise and reward.

In my experience, muslims give of their time and money more than others, but that is my personal experience. i believe the difference is we are willing to cross 'faith lines' in order to help others where as (again in MY experience) some others are not.

why do we need to set up a new food pantry when one already exists and is servicing the community but it needs help? why dont YOU go to your local food pantry and volunteer, even if they are a different faith than you?? it's much better for the community to put our resources toward something already there, that service and govt organzations already know about and are sending people there for help, than to try to gain praise and glory for ourselves or to even try to 'win over' those who need help to our faith...

here is a perfect example for you... when i attempted to get a group together to help the local food pantry, NO ONE wanted to help. why? because they were a different "faith" and people were very upfront about it with their noses in the air. in their minds it's "us" and "them". how sad. i was taught to help ALL people, black and white, rich or poor, old or young, doesnt matter. my father taught me i am no better than anyone else and no one is better than i and if someone needs help you help them... simple as that. too bad others are not blessed to have a father like mine. or a grandmother too.

just for the record, the food pantry i'm speaking of is not a muslim organization, it is christian based, but even "christians" were not willing to help because they are a different denomination. They are well established and do an excellent job of serving the community, though they need more helping hands and more food. some days they open not knowing what they will feed the people showing up but they have faith in GOD, open it up, and HE ALWAYS PROVIDES.

should i not contribute my time and food there because they are not "my faith"? if you think that way then you are wrong thinking. The people who think this way are what is wrong with America.

Thanks for your addressing my question.

If I read you correct, you are saying Muslims contribute on a personal level to social causes but as a group they don't do what all other faiths do (Build hospitals, food banks, homeless shelters, Orphanages ETC) because these bases are already covered by others?

Come on now....with the economy as it is, I am sure there are areas where needs are not being met.

As for different faiths squabbling over providing these services, I have found the opposite to be true in fact these centers tend to bring people of various faiths together as they take turns volunteering.

Anyway I am sure there are some Muslim-lead activities which serve the community at large, I hoped some could be highlighted here to help balance the neg. news on Muslims..... so far no one has named one.

[Danno 1,228]

LOL....you have got to be kidding. There are trials going on atm involving Serbian and Croat war criminals. Serbia lost Kosovo to Muslims due to the fact NATO bombed Belgrade back into the stone age. If it were not for NATO stepping in, there would be no Muslims left in Bosnia and Kosovo.

I guess you could say.... "They were under attack by Christians..... until the other Christians saved them".

Sounds like a holy war to me.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Another atrocity that seems to be forgotten is the massacre at the Shaba and Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon by Christian Phalangist forces in 1982, although it garnered major media at the time. The Karantina massacre in 1976 by the same group is something few have even heard of. The problem is Christian violence is viewed as part of a political effort, not about religion, even when expressly committed against non-Christians for sectarian purposes. Any attribution to partisan violence is reserved for Muslims, and rejected when applied to Christians or Jews.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I have admitted on this thread that I do not know the Quran. I posted quotes from the Quran that I got off the net.

Several sites had those quotes posted on them. I am asking you were those quotes I posted out of the "Hadith" or not ? What site is valid in your opinion ? You seem to like to dodge certain questions...like after three pages you have yet to refute the quotes I posted on here.

Are you digitally deaf? I have refuted the quotes. I'm also not going to waste time teaching the Quran to someone who needs remedial reading. Don't try to accuse me of dodging questions. I have no obligation to allow you to manipulate the path of this discussion when you entered it with lies and insults.

[IncorrectPolitics 26]

Another atrocity that seems to be forgotten is the massacre at the Shaba and Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon by Christian Phalangist forces in 1982, although it garnered major media at the time. The Karantina massacre in 1976 by the same group is something few have even heard of. The problem is Christian violence is viewed as part of a political effort, not about religion, even when expressly committed against non-Christians for sectarian purposes. Any attribution to partisan violence is reserved for Muslims, and rejected when applied to Christians or Jews.

I remember during the civil war in Lebanon 4 or 5 christian men cornered a pregnant Palestinian woman who was alone. They then held her down and cut her stomach open, they didn't even kill her first. After that they let her lay there in pain bleeding to death while they kicked the baby around like a soccer ball.

[caybee 21]

Paul you might be on to something such as it could be thaT Muslims have put their money and efforts together and build hospitals, Schools and Orphanages as other Faiths have done in NY.

I'ts very possible they run soup kitchens, food banks, rehab centers and Old folks homes as we see other faiths contribute in every city.

Maybe Muslims don't get the credit they deserve as citizens of our communities as they contribute to efforts outside of Islam?

If it's so we should know about it and recognize them for it because it's true: any faith or group can look bad from the evil deeds of a few members or even an occasional leader.

I'll be the first to admit, though I have been involved in a number of Charity things, I am not aware of any Muslim health clinics, homeless shelters or anything else but maybe in areas with a larger Muslim presence there are these things.

Those who are aware of them post that we might give Positive credit where it is deserved.

I've seen plenty. Here's just one local to me:

As part of the charity efforts that are part of Ramadan, Carolina Peace Resource Center is coordinating the first annual South Carolina Ramadan food drive to benefit Harvest Hope Food Bank. The purpose of the food drive is to increase the public's awareness of the role of charity in Islam, to highlight the generous nature of Muslims in South Carolina, and to facilitate a means in which Muslims in South Carolina can participate in this important pillar of Islam. Participating organizations include Masjid Al‐Muslimiin (Islamic Center of Columbia), Masjid Noor Al‐Huda, Weekend Islamic School, Madrasatul Muslimiin, Masjid and Islamic Center of Clemson, Harvest Hope Food Bank, and Carolina Peace Resource Center.

That was from last year, and the food drive went very well. They're in the middle of another.

The Muslims I know do reach out to their community and show kindness to Muslims and non-Muslims alike. They do raise their voices to condemn violence. I guess most of the time, those voices aren't sexy enough for the MSM.

BTW, U.S. law enforcement is reporting that the Yemenis detained in Amsterdam don't appear to have been involved in anything threatening nor even have known each other, but that one man (not both) had taped gifts together for family and friends in Yemen, and both had missed a connecting flight and had been rerouted by the airline, separating them from their luggage. Having watched my own dear husband arrive here with gifts all masking-taped together for my family members, and having been detained and questioned in Amsterdam myself because I missed my connecting flight and got separated from my luggage, this sounds plausible to me. Guess I'm lucky nobody saw anything menacing in the dozen or so packs of Listerine breath strips I carried to Morocco. I'm glad the authorities do their job and investigate at the slightest suspicion. But the hypotheses that are instantly accepted as truth and then propagated by the media boggle my mind.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I remember during the civil war in Lebanon 4 or 5 christian men cornered a pregnant Palestinian woman who was alone. They then held her down and cut her stomach open, they didn't even kill her first. After that they let her lay there in pain bleeding to death while they kicked the baby around like a soccer ball.

I was not there, but I do remember reading of atrocities committed on both sides of the Green Line by both sides.

[caybee 21]

Thanks for your addressing my question.

If I read you correct, you are saying Muslims contribute on a personal level to social causes but as a group they don't do what all other faiths do (Build hospitals, food banks, homeless shelters, Orphanages ETC) because these bases are already covered by others?

Come on now....with the economy as it is, I am sure there are areas where needs are not being met.

As for different faiths squabbling over providing these services, I have found the opposite to be true in fact these centers tend to bring people of various faiths together as they take turns volunteering.

Anyway I am sure there are some Muslim-lead activities which serve the community at large, I hoped some could be highlighted here to help balance the neg. news on Muslims..... so far no one has named one.

Seems like I read something about a community center in NYC. I can't find anything stating it won't be available to the public at large.

[caybee 21]

Although Muslim beliefs (based in the Qur’an) and faith practices (such as head-coverings for women) are different, the social ministries of Muslim congregations are remarkably similar to those of other religious groups in the United States.

- Faith-Based Community Ministries in a 9/11 World

Try Googling "Muslim student association" "community service" and "Muslim congregations" "community service"

I had a ton of hits with both, but I'm at work and don't have time to flesh them all out.

I don't know why it's so difficult to accept that people of faith, all faiths, as well as nonreligious people of strong convictions and compassion are vested in the well-being of their communities at large and that the more those groups are willing to look for the good in each other and join together for a common cause, the better off we all will be.

[justashooter 430]

Another atrocity that seems to be forgotten is the massacre at the Shaba and Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon by Christian Phalangist forces in 1982,

a difficult story to hear, with little chance of hearing simplified objective truth on either side. a continuation of a war that has raged since the sons of isaac and the sons of ishmael first strove.

Genesis 22:2

Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, ... and offer him there for a burnt offering.

http://www.sjcite.info/kosher.html

"Everybody was thinking mass graves in the way we think of Kosovo," said UN Relief & Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East deputy dir. Guy Siri. "I don't think we have seen that."

Residents also said Israeli war tactics became especially harsh after 13 soldiers were killed 4.9.02 in an elaborate ambush set by Palestinian fighters in the camp.

The northern West Bank town, along with its refugee camp, has been the scene of the fiercest fighting in the 2 weeks since Israel's army launched attacks on Palestinian cities and towns, vowing to eliminate what PM Ariel Sharon called a terrorist infrastructure.

Nearly 700 Palestinians were arrested in the camp, including many fighters.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_sabra_shatila.php

The Phalangists were looking for PLO fighters who, it was feared, had avoided evacuation from Beruit by hiding among the refugees. There were estimates of perhaps 200 armed men in the camps working out of the countless bunkers built by the PLO over the years, and stocked with generous reserves of ammunition.

When Israeli soldiers were alerted to the massacre and ordered the Phalangists out, they found hundreds dead, including as many as 35 women and children. The rest were men: Palestinians, Lebanese, Pakistanis, Iranians, Syrians and Algerians. This was a small toll when compared to the tens of thousand who had died in the years of civil war and fighting with the PLO in Lebanon, but these deaths kindled crys of outrage in Israel,

In May 1985, Muslim militiamen attacked the Shatila and Burj-el Barajneh Palestinian refugee camps. According to UN officials, 635 were killed and 2,500 wounded. There is no record of any protests or public investigation.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

I've posted seveal articles re the Bosnian massacres, including the fact that the Christians waged a genocidal war against their Muslim neighbors. Evidence of Christian violence is not taken seriously or seen as "Christian" because it's inconvenient to this topic.

There is a distinction between groups consisting largely of one religion doing things to another group largely made up by another religion, and doing said horrific things in the name of a given religion or at the 'command' of a given God.

I won't argue Christians have never done horrible things though, but I also don't dismiss them from their faith when they do behave badly.

[thongd4me 69]

Since we still have freedom of speech, it's perfectly legitimate to debate the GZ Mosque.

That having been said, I posted the following on the "mink" thread when the topic of this thread was being discussed:

Someone complained after my neighbor (separated from my property by a few houses,

so I only found out after the fact) built a jacuzzi in his back yard without seeking the proper

permits. There was a public hearing on the issue and as far as I know he was ultimately

allowed to keep it. I'm not meaning to use this as an example of what should happen in

downtown NYC (the GZ Mosque) but merely one of the things that happens when people build stuff.

The neighbors may complain about the proposed mosque, but it's not very clear and

easy what the outcome of a review by the local zoning authority would be. Clearly

they can't say they don't like it because they don't like the Islamic religion or what

Muslims will do to them because that (freedom of religion) is protected in the Bill of Rights.

What they may say is that they don't want to live near a site that may be the target

of OTHERS who are intolerant of Islam and who may try to bomb it and thereby

destroy the neighbors' property and cause them or their families to lose their lives.

This would be the only real threat but in order to prove it, that would take at least one episode of "Boston Legal."

======================================================================================

Only time will tell how all this will play out. There are other issues as well - the real estate "developer" who acquired

the property seems to have been a "front man" for the very secretive money people behind this project.

They had a guy from Fox News following him around with a microphone and other developers that knew

him said it was a sure bet that it wasn't his money. He was a waiter in some downtown restaurants only

a few years before he started to buy this and that property for millions and millions of dollars.

Fox Report on the Developer

Edited September 1, 2010 by thongd4me

[Heracles 417]

I doubt paul or anyone else thinks all Muslims are terrorists but like it or not, it's getting harder and harder to sell "it's just a few bad apples messing up our Peaceful religion".

IN the USA we have been fortunate with our Muslim Citizens, I heard today something like 75% of attacks in the UK were from UK born Muslims.... now THAT is a serious problem especially if it is a sign of things to come.

It's funny you say that because during the week I was suspended, I noticed a tiny article talking about Muslim extremists bombing and killing many in some African country - that week. Without a doubt, I am sure this can be excused using the crusades or not everyone does it as an example.

If I see someone carrying out atrocities and with a clear and sole objective of killing others, yet claim they are doing so in my belief, I speak up. Others clearly prefer to play the not everyone does it or stop targeting us line. Yet are than angry when people accuse them of turning a blind eye, or group them together.

See to them your example is pointless because not all do it. They don't care if 100 million of group x was guilty, because 900 million are not. They also don't care that less than fifty thousand of group a, in second place, does the same. The fact is that not all do it, therefore, the difference between those in first place to everyone else combined, in their opinion, means nothing.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Heracles

[Heracles 417]

The last Crusade was in the 13th century, the Spanish Inquisition was in the 15th century.

We are now in the 21st century.

Bingo!