Comparing the cleanliness of the post-Beck rally to the Barackalyptic Inauguration Weekend

[alienlovechild 75]

My original point has been elucidated and repeated, but you've not responded to it. You say you agree the Obama backlash has been harsh. Okay. I say it's been outrageous, and completely out of proportion to his deeds. That Bush was a #######, but that we didn't have a nationwide uprising with all kinds of scary #######. I say the scary ####### has to do with racism. I expect you, if you disagree, to show me that the backlash is proportional, that it makes sense in the context of a routine pendulum swing, and that it's an honest response to the real acts of the current president. Again, you've said it's about the policies. I don't think that cuts it. Not even close.

So you're stuck on personalities of a couple of presidents and boil it due soley to racism by wholly ignoring policies, the structure of the government and current political and economic realities.

I'm not worried in the least by peaceful protests or harsh criticism of the whomever occupant of the White House might be. Suppressing discontent doesn't work well here and foolish to expect some controlled level of opposition based on the previous administration. It's not as if there's a quota of negative comments allowed.

You're scared of the current political climate because you're not used to it and don't care ask questions on what I told you. There's no uprising in the offing. The reason you've seen more hostility towards Obama is that the economy has been bad his entire term and for Bush it really only got bad right before the election. It's natural expect to political loyalty erode when a president fails sraighten out the economy and makes it worse in the bargain.

As far as the racism goes, how come there was little racism against Obama during the campaign and he won becoming the first black (half black) president yet less than two years later everyone has suddenly become a racist? Didn't the public notice he was black or has he failed to produce positive results that even some Democrats don't want to be associated with him prior to their re-election?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There was racism during the campaign, Dave. Some of it from the mass media too.

[Danno 1,228]

There was racism during the campaign, Dave. Some of it from the mass media too.

I would say "on the balance"...Obama gained mnore "racial cover" from the Media than he took in ..... Racism.

Example:

Imagine any White person belonging to a Church which endorsed this type of Dogma.... with Obama it was a non-issue with the press.

FROM OBAMAS CHURCH ( and it's still enforced today)

http://www.trinitychicago.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

THE BLACK VALUE SYSTEM

Beginning in 1982, an annual Black Value System - Educational Scholarship in the name of Dr. Byrd was instituted. The first recipient of the Dr. Manford Byrd Award, which is given annually to the man or woman who best exemplifies the Black Value System, was our brother, Dr. Manford Byrd.

These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They consist of the following concepts:

Commitment to God. "The God of our weary years" will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activists, soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind. Matthew 22:37 - Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Commitment to the Black Community. The highest level of achievement for any Black person must be a contribution of strength and continuity of the Black Community. I John 4:20 - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother [or his sister], he is a liar; for he that loveth not his brother or sister whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Commitment to the Black Family. The Black family circle must generate strength, stability and love, despite the uncertainty of externals, because these characteristics are required if the developing person is to withstand warping by our racist competitive society. Those Blacks who are blessed with membership in a strong family unit must reach out and expand that blessing to the less fortunate. Deuteronomy 6:6-8 - And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Dedication to the Pursuit of Education. We must forswear anti-intellectualism. Continued survival demands that each Black person be developed to the utmost of his/her mental potential despite the inadequacies of the formal education process. “Real education” fosters understanding of ourselves as well as every aspect of our environment. Also, it develops within us the ability to fashion concepts and tools for better utilization of our resources, and more effective solutions to our problems. Since the majority of Blacks have been denied such learning, Black Education must include elements that produce high school graduates with marketable skills, a trade or qualifications for apprenticeships, or proper preparation for college. Basic education for all Blacks should include Mathematics, Science, Logic, General Semantics, Participative Politics, Economics and Finance, and the Care and Nurture of Black minds. Matthew 22:37 - Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul and with all thy mind.

Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence. To the extent that we individually reach for, even strain for excellence, we increase, geometrically, the value and resourcefulness of the Black Community. We must recognize the relativity of one’s best; this year’s best can be bettered next year. Such is the language of growth and development. We must seek to excel in every endeavor. Ecclesiastes 9:10 - Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Adherence to the Black Work Ethic. "It is becoming harder to find qualified people to work in Chicago." Whether this is true or not, it represents one of the many reasons given by businesses and industries for deserting the Chicago area. We must realize that a location with good facilities, adequate transportation and a reputation for producing skilled workers will attract industry. We are in competition with other cities, states and nations for jobs. High productivity must be a goal of the Black workforce. II Thessalonians 3:7-12 - For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labor and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect. To accomplish anything worthwhile requires self-discipline. We must be a community of self-disciplined persons if we are to actualize and utilize our own human resources, instead of perpetually submitting to exploitation by others. Self-discipline, coupled with a respect for self, will enable each of us to be an instrument of Black Progress and a model for Black Youth. I Peter 1:4-7 - To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness." Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must be able to identify the "talented tenth" of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor's control. Proverbs 3:13-14 - Happy are those who find wisdom and those who gain understanding, for her income is better than silver and her revenue better than gold.

Those so identified are separated from the rest of the people by:

Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.

Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.

Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which, while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of "we" and "they" instead of "us."

So, while it is permissible to chase "middleclassness" with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method - the psychological entrapment of Black "middleclassness." If we avoid this snare, we will also diminish our "voluntary" contributions to methods A and B. And more importantly, Black people no longer will be deprived of their birthright: the leadership, resourcefulness and example of their own talented persons.

Pledge to Make the Fruits of All Developing and Acquired Skills Available to the Black Community.

Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions.

Pledge Allegiance to All Black Leadership Who Espouse and Embrace the Black Value System.

Personal Commitment to Embracement of the Black Value System. To measure the worth and validity of all activity in terms of positive contributions to the general welfare of the Black Community and the Advancement of Black People towards freedom.

http://www.trinitychicago.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That's not what I'm talking about, though it is a small (very small) part of the picture.

[Danno 1,228]

That's not what I'm talking about, though it is a small (very small) part of the picture.

By all means, share your complete thought... what are you talking about exactly?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Lot's of little things in the news during that time - a coordinated attempt to present a view that Obama isn't like other Americans and is somehow "other" and illegitimate.

Off the top of my head:

The Birther movement (and coverage thereof)

The inane fixation with Obama's middle name (as opposed to the middle names of the other candidates)

The suggestion that Obama was a muslim manchurian candidate with terrorist sympathies.

The "terrorist fist jab"

The assertion that healthcare reform was merely a pretext to secretly award reparations to black people for slavery.

We also shouldn't forget that Glenn Beck explicitly called the President a racist who hates white people. That was after the election of course, but it illustrates that this stuff is still in the mainstream.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[twowls 217]

So you're stuck on personalities of a couple of presidents and boil it due soley to racism by wholly ignoring policies, the structure of the government and current political and economic realities.

I'm not worried in the least by peaceful protests or harsh criticism of the whomever occupant of the White House might be. Suppressing discontent doesn't work well here and foolish to expect some controlled level of opposition based on the previous administration. It's not as if there's a quota of negative comments allowed.

You're scared of the current political climate because you're not used to it and don't care ask questions on what I told you. There's no uprising in the offing. The reason you've seen more hostility towards Obama is that the economy has been bad his entire term and for Bush it really only got bad right before the election. It's natural expect to political loyalty erode when a president fails sraighten out the economy and makes it worse in the bargain.

As far as the racism goes, how come there was little racism against Obama during the campaign and he won becoming the first black (half black) president yet less than two years later everyone has suddenly become a racist? Didn't the public notice he was black or has he failed to produce positive results that even some Democrats don't want to be associated with him prior to their re-election?

I guess this is the part where we just see things totally differently. I'm not scared of abstractions or dissent; I'm scared about the violence and the racism, the freaks coming out of the woodwork, encouraged by the irresponsible fearmongering of the whole base. People are being targeted now for "looking Muslim." That's what's upsetting me.

As far as your selective memory goes, I don't know what to say. The racist ####### that went down during the campaign was disgusting and horrifying. I have no idea where you were for all that.

[twowls 217]

Lot's of little things in the news during that time - a coordinated attempt to present a view that Obama isn't like other Americans and is somehow "other" and illegitimate.

Off the top of my head:

The Birther movement (and coverage thereof)

The inane fixation with Obama's middle name (as opposed to the middle names of the other candidates)

The suggestion that Obama was a muslim manchurian candidate with terrorist sympathies.

The "terrorist fist jab"

The assertion that healthcare reform was merely a pretext to secretly award reparations to black people for slavery.

We also shouldn't forget that Glenn Beck explicitly called the President a racist who hates white people. That was after the election of course, but it illustrates that this stuff is still in the mainstream.

Remember the lady at the McCain rally? That exchange was so precious: "He's...he's...an Arab." McCain: "No, he's a decent... family man." Get it? Because you can't be a good family man and an Arab, at all.

Oh and what about Ole Backwards B-Face! 'Member her? How she was "attacked" by a gang of scary, politically engaged Negroes with a raging case of sadistic dyslexia? She was the best.

The entire campaign was pocked with ####### like that. There was hardly any room around the edges to hear about the issues, what with the "look, here's Obama in traditional Muslim garb!" And did you know he went to a Madrasa?? I don't know what a Madrasa is, but it sure sounds brown! And didn't you know his wife wrote her thesis on how to kill whitey?

They very carefully positioned him as other, suspect, alien, different, scary, foreign and kept the focus there with all their might. I don't know how anybody could have missed that.

[Danno 1,228]

Lot's of little things in the news during that time - a coordinated attempt to present a view that Obama isn't like other Americans and is somehow "other" and illegitimate.

Off the top of my head:

The Birther movement (and coverage thereof)

The inane fixation with Obama's middle name (as opposed to the middle names of the other candidates)

The suggestion that Obama was a muslim manchurian candidate with terrorist sympathies.

The "terrorist fist jab"

The assertion that healthcare reform was merely a pretext to secretly award reparations to black people for slavery.

We also shouldn't forget that Glenn Beck explicitly called the President a racist who hates white people. That was after the election of course, but it illustrates that this stuff is still in the mainstream.

It's always amazing how different parties can watch the same car wreck.... and both come away with conflicting testimony over what really happened.

[twowls 217]

You're scared of the current political climate because you're not used to it and don't care ask questions on what I told you. There's no uprising in the offing. The reason you've seen more hostility towards Obama is that the economy has been bad his entire term and for Bush it really only got bad right before the election. It's natural expect to political loyalty erode when a president fails sraighten out the economy and makes it worse in the bargain.

Sorry about posting this 9 years later, but I found this elucidation of my perception of things and my fears and feel it's articulated better than I could do. I don't expect you to agree, but I do feel that you're intelligent and potentially open to hearing others' viewpoints, so here it is.

From author Chris Hedges:

“The language of violence always presages violence. When someone like Palin posts a map with cross hairs on the districts of Democrats, when she says “Don’t Retreat, Instead—RELOAD!” there are desperate people cleaning their weapons who listen. When Christian fascists stand in the pulpits of megachurches and denounce Barack Obama as the Antichrist, there are messianic believers who listen. . . .These movements are not yet full-blown fascist movements. They do not openly call for the extermination of ethnic or religious groups. They do not openly advocate violence. But, as I was told by Fritz Stern, a scholar of fascism who has written about the origins of Nazism, ‘In Germany there was a yearning for fascism before fascism was invented.’ It is the yearning that we now see, and it is dangerous. If we do not immediately reincorporate the unemployed and the poor back into the economy, giving them jobs and relief from crippling debt, then the nascent racism and violence that are leaping up around the edges of American society will become a full-blown conflagration. Left unchecked, the hatred for radical Islam will transform itself into a hatred for Muslims. The hatred for undocumented workers will become a hatred for Mexicans and Central Americans. The hatred for those not defined by this largely white movement as American patriots will become a hatred for African-Americans. The hatred for liberals will morph into a hatred for all democratic institutions, from universities to government agencies to the press.”

This makes a lot of sense to me in terms of the rally-goers and community center protesters and the like. I don't begrudge them their general anger. But I think for whatever reason, that anger gets focused in really disgusting ways, and very dangerous ways. I'm angry too; I'm poor and feel helpless in a way. But I've been exposed to enough culture and education not to just stop at "RawrHate." It's the mass of Americans who are stopping the thinking process at Rawr that scares me. You may again disagree with everything in the above analysis, but I hope you will at least consider it. I feel it's spot on and it's what I'm talking about.

[Danno 1,228]

Sorry about posting this 9 years later, but I found this elucidation of my perception of things and my fears and feel it's articulated better than I could do. I don't expect you to agree, but I do feel that you're intelligent and potentially open to hearing others' viewpoints, so here it is.

From author Chris Hedges:

“The language of violence always presages violence. When someone like Palin posts a map with cross hairs on the districts of Democrats, when she says “Don’t Retreat, Instead—RELOAD!” there are desperate people cleaning their weapons who listen. When Christian fascists stand in the pulpits of megachurches and denounce Barack Obama as the Antichrist, there are messianic believers who listen. . . .These movements are not yet full-blown fascist movements. They do not openly call for the extermination of ethnic or religious groups. They do not openly advocate violence. But, as I was told by Fritz Stern, a scholar of fascism who has written about the origins of Nazism, ‘In Germany there was a yearning for fascism before fascism was invented.’ It is the yearning that we now see, and it is dangerous. If we do not immediately reincorporate the unemployed and the poor back into the economy, giving them jobs and relief from crippling debt, then the nascent racism and violence that are leaping up around the edges of American society will become a full-blown conflagration. Left unchecked, the hatred for radical Islam will transform itself into a hatred for Muslims. The hatred for undocumented workers will become a hatred for Mexicans and Central Americans. The hatred for those not defined by this largely white movement as American patriots will become a hatred for African-Americans. The hatred for liberals will morph into a hatred for all democratic institutions, from universities to government agencies to the press.”

My My My how soon we forget what took place in every major city and on the College grounds.

How quickly we go from shrugging at actual calls for violence to obsessing about what could happen.

They say a picture says a thousand words.... here are a few from mainstreet America from the mainstream Left.

If any of these were of Obama, they would be terrible, violent... even racist, but when it was Bush's head in the noose or the target of death threats...... you Yawned.

[twowls 217]

well that is font-tastic, thanks for it. And for your considered analysis of the commentary.

[Ban Hammer 13,469]

anyone else notice the same guy appears in 3 of those pics? what is he, a professional protester?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Calling for someone's death isn't "mainstream"

[alienlovechild 75]

I guess this is the part where we just see things totally differently. I'm not scared of abstractions or dissent; I'm scared about the violence and the racism, the freaks coming out of the woodwork, encouraged by the irresponsible fearmongering of the whole base. People are being targeted now for "looking Muslim." That's what's upsetting me.

As far as your selective memory goes, I don't know what to say. The racist ####### that went down during the campaign was disgusting and horrifying. I have no idea where you were for all that.

Where's the increase in violence you're referring to? If you had a real basis of your fears there's there would be something to discuss but you've only got your fears. I don't know if you're a Muslim or not so maybe that's why you claim to see so much fearmongering going on. Again haven't any stats on the increase of violence against Muslims in the U.S.

Remember the lady at the McCain rally? That exchange was so precious: "He's...he's...an Arab." McCain: "No, he's a decent... family man." Get it? Because you can't be a good family man and an Arab, at all.

Oh and what about Ole Backwards B-Face! 'Member her? How she was "attacked" by a gang of scary, politically engaged Negroes with a raging case of sadistic dyslexia? She was the best.

The entire campaign was pocked with ####### like that. There was hardly any room around the edges to hear about the issues, what with the "look, here's Obama in traditional Muslim garb!" And did you know he went to a Madrasa?? I don't know what a Madrasa is, but it sure sounds brown! And didn't you know his wife wrote her thesis on how to kill whitey?

They very carefully positioned him as other, suspect, alien, different, scary, foreign and kept the focus there with all their might. I don't know how anybody could have missed that.

Ok, let's look at that "disgusting" and "horrifying" presidential campaign. Have to suppress the laughter at your over the top description. McCain actually set the woman straight so I see no issue at all.

The woman who claimed to be attacked was quickly found out as a liar so again non-issue to overall campaign.

Obama wearing the Muslim grab was circulated by the Clinton campaign and Obama made her Secretary of State- non-issue.

Lastly, Obama was elected and none of these incidents made any difference. I've seen far more American presidential campaigns than you have and all of your points are the usual level of dirty tricks at best (or worst from your point-of-voice).

I just finished watching some of the Family Guy/American Dad episodes I'd missed and I was struck by all of the nasty comments about Bush. Coke, First Lady as murderer, Rove as the evil emperor, portrait of Bush machined gunned, Bush not serving in Vietnam, Cheney with Satan's phone number. . . I'm sure there's much more. By contrast, Obama doesn't exist or I haven't seen any negatives on him yet. There may be negative images of Obama but it's not the mainstream media doing it.

Edited September 8, 2010 by alienlovechild