Baby Bom: Mom planned to blow up her own baby

[jordanianprincess 0]

Now I have an honest question stemming from this thread. For the people that believe in Islam I understand that the Islam religion is supposed to be a peaceful one.. So where do these guys that make you look bad get their extremist views from. AND BEFORE ANYONE JUMPS ON ME... I am asking for your side because I don't know it and curious how it is felt on that side.. I mean the KKK swear to be Christians.. but real Christians don't believe in their views.. so I want to hear from the other side... thanks

I think that is an excellent question and I will leave it for another member who is Muslim to answer.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Now I have an honest question stemming from this thread. For the people that believe in Islam I understand that the Islam religion is supposed to be a peaceful one.. So where do these guys that make you look bad get their extremist views from.

The Qur'an often refers to the straight path that we have to walk. The Sunnah (sayings and doings of the Prophet) also speak of walking the middle way. Both warn against straying to extremes.

At least from my humble perspectives, terrorists are straying to the extremes of the path. Islam allows for fighting and war. Terrorists look at this and embrace only this, walking on the far edge of the path, near to the point of almost falling off. If they were to follow the middle way, they would say, ah, God has allowed us to fight, but only with these conditions... oh, duh, purposely targetting civilians is an extreme, not the middle

For example, an early summary of what limitations muslims have when fighting were summed up by the Caliph Abu Bakr (ra), the first muslim ruler following the death of the Prophet (saws):

"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone"

In fact, a group of some of my favorite shaykhs are becoming very popular in England among the younger population there with their Radical Middle Way tour. I wish they would tour the US *pouts*

[vartan 0]

Rahma thank you very much for the post.. that gives me some insight.. so let me ask this.. I am a christian .. and like I said in my post that KKK say they are christian (my example) but I shun what they believe .. now KKK and Extremist Muslims aren't on the same level .. KKK is more of just a street gang now adays.. (in terms) .. So would straight pathed muslims see these extremists as a threat and try to resolve the issue too?

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Once the average muslim is themselves affected by terrorism, they'll probably start to care. The US muslim community started to care post 9/11. The British muslim community started to care post 9/11 and even more so post 7/11.

For muslims living in the Middle East or elsewhere, what happens in america isn't necessarily the be all and end all of their existance. Certainly those in positions of authority have expressed their opinions about the issue, but I'll wajer that the average Egyptian is more concerned about the next bombing in a resort town or in Cairo then they are about what someone does in Europe or America.

Muslim leaders and scholars are taking up the issue, as highlighted previously by the Radical Middle Way tour and the link in the paragraph above. The King of Jordan has been hosting several conferences on the issue which draw in a number of leading scholars.

The problem I see is that we don't really have a heirarchy. There isn't a single authority to whom all muslims look for guidance on an issue. Major scholars, especially in the US and Europe, are increasingly reaching out to the young people in our community who may be prone to extremism. Unfortunately, it's difficult to reach everyone, and with the rise of the internet, it's easier for an isolated young person to reach out and find others like him, and then band together to wreak havoc.

What can we do? Continue what the Radical Middle Way shaykhs are doing, make sure our young people feel that there is value in participating in mainstream society and that one can practice their faith in a deep, profound way without going to the edges of the path.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone"

translation: if your not a kid, woman, an old man, tree, livestock, or a monk........you'r fair game.

[vartan 0]

I can't tell ya how much just what you said in 2 posts has helped me understand.. Ya know I will admit that until recently I didn't think any muslim was good. But I looked into it and understand there good people out there they just have some bad eggs that give them a bad reputation. I still don't believe in the faith but hey if they peaceful then that is all that matters.. ya know? And I understand the worry of what is happening in their country is more important then what might be happening in britain or the US.. but who is causing those bombings and whatever in those countries.. Are those the radical people too ? Or just street gangs, etc?

I don't really know of any religion in its true nature that believes people should die.. I mean even satanists leave the christians alone.. So why can't these guys leave us alone.. Now in those islamic countries its not safe to really speak your mind about these extremists is it?

[UmmSqueakster 54]

"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone"

translation: if your not a kid, woman, an old man, tree, livestock, or a monk........you'r fair game.

Uhh, translation - at the time of these rules, if you weren't any of those things you were 99.99999999999% of the time an armed combatant.

[vartan 0]

Uhh, translation - at the time of these rules, if you weren't any of those things you were 99.99999999999% of the time an armed combatant.

So do you think that it should be changed now that times have changed? I see this in religion alot where people still live off of the book that was written centuries ago .. well now is now and then is then .. we have to adapt.. that is my thought.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Glad I could help. For the most part, muslims get up, go to work, come home and watch tv just like the rest of the population

And I understand the worry of what is happening in their country is more important then what might be happening in britain or the US.. but who is causing those bombings and whatever in those countries.. Are those the radical people too ? Or just street gangs, etc?

Radical groups cause these bombings. I'm most familiar with Egypt, since I married an Egyptian and am there after expected to absorb the culture and history

The radical religious groups in the Middle East are a reaction to oppressive regimes of all kinds. Following independence, Egyptian presidents tried socialism, capitalism and above all, autocratic rule. With the failure of each policy and with a very small public sphere for expressing political dissent, some groups have decided to take out their anger and frustration out on the tourist industry, which will in turn hurt the government who is smacking them around.

The mosque is one of the relatively free areas of speech in Egypt, and as such, a lot of the political dissent has a religious tone to it. It would also stand to reason that the violent tinge would also have a religious tone. Egypt has cracked down on these radical preachers, throwing them, their supporters, their families, and someone who once may have had lunch next to them in jail.

I don't really know of any religion in its true nature that believes people should die.. I mean even satanists leave the christians alone.. So why can't these guys leave us alone.. Now in those islamic countries its not safe to really speak your mind about these extremists is it?

One can't say much of anything in Egypt as it is. One of the things that tickles my husband pink to no end is the Daily Show and Stephen Colbert. He just can't get over how every night comedians can get on tv and poke fun at the president. You just couldn't do that in Cairo.

Uhh, translation - at the time of these rules, if you weren't any of those things you were 99.99999999999% of the time an armed combatant.

So do you think that it should be changed now that times have changed? I see this in religion alot where people still live off of the book that was written centuries ago .. well now is now and then is then .. we have to adapt.. that is my thought.

Religious rulings in Islam are made up of several things, one of which is reasoning by the scholar. I can't speak for the entire ummah (worldwide religious community), but leading scholars like Sheikh Qaradawi hold that it applies only to combatents, not to all men.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's so hard to judge people's ethnicities, which is exactly why we shouldn't try to!

Indeed. Though sadly after this latest scare - you can probably expect to see a new offence on the books:

Travelling whilst asian

Interestingly, one of the arrested plotters is a caucasian convert to Islam. Interestingly, the way the media in the UK are focussing on him, there seems to be a sort of 'he's been got at by the evil Other' mentality. For example, The Daily Mirror had a front page article by some ex-girlfriend they had dredged up saying what a normal bloke he used to be...

[*Robert* 2]

Soon we'll be riding airplanes naked with full body cavity searches before boarding

Best one-liner ever

things that make you go hmmmm!!!

[Heracles 417]

What gets me is how so many islamic followers hate the west / europe, yet continue to move and live there???

Then again just look at their mentality. When israel is pounding them, by default, it's always the US's fault. It's the US's fault because they have not stopped Israel.. Then when the US puts their foot down in countries like Iraq, fundamentalists kill people and demand the indifels (aka US / UK / AUS) leave and STOP interfering with the middle east..

Back to Israel. When Israel is pounding them they once again criticize the US and Israel for it's 'barbaric actions' yet the second israel stops attacking them, they turn around and claim VICTORY!!

What is seriously wrong with them..

Edited August 17, 2006 by Infidel

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Um, is not the New York Post something similar to the Enquirer and Examiner (two commonest cash-register tabloids)?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Um, is not the New York Post something similar to the Enquirer and Examiner (two commonest cash-register tabloids)?

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_466403.html

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/stor...5001021,00.html

The father, Abdula Ahmed Ali

The mother, Cossor Ali

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original..._21234314.shtml

[Veiled Princess 1]

Um, is not the New York Post something similar to the Enquirer and Examiner (two commonest cash-register tabloids)?

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_466403.html

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/stor...5001021,00.html

The father, Abdula Ahmed Ali

The mother, Cossor Ali

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original..._21234314.shtml

Oh yah... both obviously hardcore muslim extremists....