Japan's Long Kept Secret On The Death Penalty

[Pooky 3,784]

If it's all about "an eye for an eye, baby!" then surely how humane the execution method is shouldn't be a concern. The method the convicted used should be used on him. Yeah! Woohoo!

But it's not about an eye for an eye, is it?

I don't agree with the death penalty, but I appreciate that in some states it is the law. I do believe in the concept of if you're going to kill someone, do it quickly, with the minimum of fuss and don't make the ####### suffer the way they made their victims suffer. Otherwise, you're really no better than they are.

[Ling Ling 22]

On one hand, the death penalty has not proven to be a good tool at deterring murder...except by the person executed.

On the other hand, I think death is too good for a lot of criminals.

The victims almost never get a quick humane death, and the surviving families have to live/suffer with the pain forever.

I think justice for violent crimes should be severely punitive in nature....and an instant death to me is too kind.

Use the convicted to test new drugs that will save lives...hell, I wouldn't mind using them to test bullet resistant vests.

At least that way, they'll be as surprised as their victims, and experience some of the agony.

[Pooky 3,784]

On one hand, the death penalty has not proven to be a good tool at deterring murder...except by the person executed.

On the other hand, I think death is too good for a lot of criminals.

The victims almost never get a quick humane death, and the surviving families have to live/suffer with the pain forever.

I think justice for violent crimes should be severely punitive in nature....and an instant death to me is too kind.

Use the convicted to test new drugs that will save lives...hell, I wouldn't mind using them to test bullet resistant vests.

At least that way, they'll be as surprised as their victims, and experience some of the agony.

For someone opposed to the death penalty, you're very quick to lower yourself to the level of the condemned. To make them suffer in the ways you suggest means that you are no better than them.

They may be convicted criminals, but they are still human beings. And we are supposed to be a civilised society.

[Ling Ling 22]

For someone opposed to the death penalty, you're very quick to lower yourself to the level of the condemned. To make them suffer in the ways you suggest means that you are no better than them.

They may be convicted criminals, but they are still human beings. And we are supposed to be a civilised society.

Sorry Pooky, to me a civilized society is one that creates a set of rules for the common good, as well as penalties that punish and deter people from going against those rules.

Once you've been convicted of committing a violent crime as heinous as murder, in my book you've proven yourself to be uncivilized, and the rules for civility don't apply to you.

Being nice to violent criminals hasn't worked too well, has it?

[Pooky 3,784]

Sorry Pooky, to me a civilized society is one that creates a set of rules for the common good, as well as penalties that punish and deter people from going against those rules.

Once you've been convicted of committing a violent crime as heinous as murder, in my book you've proven yourself to be uncivilized, and the rules for civility don't apply to you.

Being nice to violent criminals hasn't worked too well, has it?

And right there, you missed my point.

The criminals are uncivilised. We, supposedly, are not.

Treat anyone, even convicted criminals, by a different set of rules and you take away any justification for thinking you're better than they are. Treat them in an uncivilsed way and you prove yourself to be just the same - uncivilised.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Pooky

[Ling Ling 22]

And right there, you missed my point.

The criminals are uncivilised. We, supposedly, are not.

Treat anyone, even convicted criminals, by a different set of rules and you take away any justification for thinking you're better than they are. Treat them in an uncivilsed way and you prove yourself to be just the same - uncivilised.

Treating uncivilized the same way you treat civilized?

I guess dogs and cats should be paid wages, setup bank accounts, pay taxes?

That's about as crazy as a soup sandwich.

[Pooky 3,784]

Treating uncivilized the same way you treat civilized?

I guess dogs and cats should be paid wages, setup bank accounts, pay taxes?

That's about as crazy as a soup sandwich.

Stick with human beings, rather than lame animal analogies, and stop making yourself look like a fool.

If you want to talk ethical treatment of animals, do it in another thread. For this one, stick to humans.

[Ling Ling 22]

Stick with human beings, rather than lame animal analogies, and stop making yourself look like a fool.

If you want to talk ethical treatment of animals, do it in another thread. For this one, stick to humans.

Pooky made a personal attack. Pooky is not capable of a civilized debate. No cookie for Pooky.

Humans are animals too. We're just supposed to be more intelligent. But treating someone who's a violent criminal, in the same manner as we would treat non-violent law abiding citizens is the same as treating a rabid dog in the same manner as your mannered pet. A fool is someone who has seen failure in their methods, but continues with the same method hoping for a different outcome.

[Heracles 417]

What works is public displays of punishment, that ensures potential perpetrators see the consequences of actions. It's why I can walk in Singapore literally freely and not fear for my life or walking down the wrong street. And we know how much you guys love the freedoms.

The current approach is failing because as tough as punishment is [if caught], who gets to see it? To say hey I don't want that to happen to me. In the past, such public displays to deal with the uncivilized was known as setting an example, now it has become inhumane. Riiiiight, because what is human is worrying about a killer rather than the victim, who are often left dead. We have tried the so-called humane approach and it has failed us.

People do grasp what dead is right?

Edited August 29, 2010 by Heracles

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

For me life in prison would be a greater deterrent than capital punishment.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

It should also be pointed out that studies have shown capital punish to be more expensive than life in prison. Therefore, if the role of the system is to make the population safer by taking dangerous criminals off of the streets permanently, then life in prison is more efficient. As a tax payer I do not want money wasted on other people's petty desire for vengeance.

[Heracles 417]

For me life in prison would be a greater deterrent than capital punishment.

But really is it a deterrent? The threat of losing you time might be logical for civilized people, who value their time, definitely not to the criminals. In my opinion neither capital punishment, leniency nor life long sentences work, as no one is there to see what happens when they commit x crime. Uncivilized criminals certainly do not read any paper to see what happens, they simply live on the edge, skirting law enforcement as long as they can.

What does work and has worked throughout history is corporal punishment. Not to many tough guys or knuckleheads that can bear it.

It should also be pointed out that studies have shown capital punish to be more expensive than life in prison. Therefore, if the role of the system is to make the population safer by taking dangerous criminals off of the streets permanently, then life in prison is more efficient. As a tax payer I do not want money wasted on other people's petty desire for vengeance.

How is that even possible? It costs over tens of thousand to house and feed a prisoner every year.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

But really is it a deterrent? The threat of losing you time might be logical for civilized people, who value their time, definitely not to the criminals. In my opinion neither capital punishment, leniency nor life long sentences work, as no one is there to see what happens when they commit x crime. Uncivilized criminals certainly do not read any paper to see what happens, they simply live on the edge, skirting law enforcement as long as they can.

What does work and has worked throughout history is corporal punishment. Not to many tough guys or knuckleheads that can bear it.

How is that even possible? It costs over tens of thousand to house and feed a prisoner every year.

I feel like I can think like an "uncivilized" person. There are times and places in people's lives where they may have nothing to lose and are willing to do whatever ever it takes. If caught they'd rather die quickly than rot in prison.

On the cost side, there are constitutional safe guards that help protect potentially innocent people from being killed. Therefore the legal costs are much higher.

[DEDixon 39]

Its all about vengeance in the end, which helps no one.

maybe not. it could be about saving $$$$ from supporting them in prison for a lifetime.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

maybe not. it could be about saving $$$$ from supporting them in prison for a lifetime.

See posts 26 and 28.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Sousuke