Would You Support The Mosque More If This Nutbar Imam Weren't Running the Show?

[HAL 9000 96]

Step 1:

Im not concerned with terrorist perception.

Going back, Step 2:

I think this has more to do with not letting the terrorist see this as a victory than trying to put a big stamp on Islam.

Your words, not mine.

If your support against this Community Center is based on perceptions, have at least accuracy on whose perceptions are critically important on your side.

Not caring about the terrorists claiming (perceiving, in case you miss it) victory and caring about how someone concerned about the terrorists claiming (there's that perception three times in this one sentence!) victory, are polar opposites to themselves in logic.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Step 1:

Going back, Step 2:

Your words, not mine.

Hal I have said several times that I'm not against the project. I was talking about those who are. What Im am trying to do is to get you to see that the ones who are against it are not against all of Islam but care about how the extreme elements in Islam will see it.

If your support against this Community Center is based on perceptions, have at least accuracy on whose perceptions are critically important on your side.

Who says they dont, I know you're the champion of Muslim equality and would like us to think that all people who are against this think this way but its just not true. Listen to what some of them are saying.

Not caring about the terrorists claiming (perceiving, in case you miss it) victory and caring about how someone concerned about the terrorists claiming (there's that perception three times in this one sentence!) victory, are polar opposites to themselves in logic.

Once again Hal Im not against this project. Unless its proved to be funded by extremists.

In your opinion Hal was Imam wrong?

Edited August 25, 2010 by _Simpson_

[Saddle Bronc 124]

No, due to the whole idea being an abuse of "freedom of religion"--it would be equivalent of Japanese as of 1950 using that same Constitution provision to have a Taj-Mahal-sized Shinto shrine constructed right atop the USS Arizona Memorial!

[HAL 9000 96]

Hal I have said several times that I'm not against the project. What Im am trying to do is to get you to see that the ones who are against it are not against all of Islam but care about how the extreme elements in Islam will see it.

Who says they dont, I know you're the champion of Muslim equality and would like us to think that all people who are against this think this ways but its just not true. Listen to what some of them are saying.

Once again Hal Im not against this project. Unless its proved to be funded by extremists.

In your opinion Hal was Imam wrong?

Fine and dandy- and I'm pointing out to you that maybe their rationale to be against the project isn't exactly rooted in sound logic.

I most certainly will champion equality for all religions in this country. That's why we have the practice of religion protected by the Constitution. I have neither claimed the following:

and would like us to think that all people who are against this think this ways but its just not true

If that's what you understand, then you really do need to read a little more carefully.

I am reminded of that ex-IDF soldier thread where you spent 72 hours arguing over evidence that had yet to be known, evaluated, and judged in an appropriate forum (court). I asked Paul for a list of statements that would show this Imam's purported Anti-American [sentiments] statements that would lead one to perceive (there's that word again) that he was anything close to an 'extremist.'

You may be at a loss for words right now because neither your logic, nor your argument, are congruent enough to condemn anyone at this point in time. Maybe you can produce this list that would hopefully help us settle on this Imam as an extremist, although I doubt you will because the probability of you finding an actual source that isn't what someone interpreted their perceptions of this Imam as extremist are rather slim.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Paul is falling for the the "Anti-American Imam" hoax.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Fine and dandy- and I'm pointing out to you that maybe their rationale to be against the project isn't exactly rooted in sound logic.

I would agree as long as no evidence comes out saying that this is being funded by extremists.

I am reminded of that ex-IDF soldier thread where you spent 72 hours arguing over evidence that had yet to be known, evaluated, and judged in an appropriate forum (court).

I asked your opinion on the givin details of the story to make a point about how maybe this story was getting blown out of porportion. You started getting all convoluted and acting like VJ was a court of law. Most people would of responded along the lines of well based on what we know...

I asked Paul for a list of statements that would show this Imam's purported Anti-American [sentiments] statements that would lead one to perceive (there's that word again) that he was anything close to an 'extremist.'

You take up the list with Paul. The only things I addressed were his comments regarding 9/11. Sure Imam back peddled but only because of the pressure he was receiving.

You may be at a loss for words right now because neither your logic, nor your argument, are congruent enough to condemn anyone at this point in time.

I said that I would oppose this if it could be proved that extremists funded this, I never said that his comments on 9/11 were enough for me to oppose this. You're trying to put words in my mouth.

Maybe you can produce this list that would hopefully help us settle on this Imam as an extremist, although I doubt you will because the probability of you finding an actual source that isn't what someone interpreted their perceptions of this Imam as extremist are rather slim.

What I addressed was your downplaying of Imam's comments regarding 9/11. I didnt call him a extremist. I believe there is a good chance he could be but I have no proof so I wont condemn him.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Once again Hal Im not against this project. Unless its proved to be funded by extremists.

Well, I now wish that we would determine that it is funded by extremists. After all, the biggest donor thus far to the project is also the second largest stakeholder in News Corp. So if we are going to accuse the Lower Manhattan projject to be a terrorist venture based on it's sponsors, then we can finally put to rest the debate of whether or not Fixed News is a terrorist venture. It would clearly be.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who the hell do you think you are to try and judge me?

I'm not hiding behind anything.

I say how I feel about everything in case you haven't been paying attention on these boards for awhile.

Don't even try and play like you know me. Please. People like you are damn pathetic. Trying to think you know everything about someone just because they have an opinion on one thing.

That's fine, but it does sound a lot like what you did to the imam...

[_Simpson_ 250]

Well, I now wish that we would determine that it is funded by extremists. After all, the biggest donor thus far to the project is also the second largest stakeholder in News Corp. So if we are going to accuse the Lower Manhattan projject to be a terrorist venture based on it's sponsors, then we can finally put to rest the debate of whether or not Fixed News is a terrorist venture. It would clearly be.

No extremest group should be funding this regardless to who else is doing the funding. Would you support this project if it was proved that Hamas provided some of the funds?

[mawilson 2,133]

"We need to find a way to infuse our religious practices in politics without politicising our religion," he said.

[_Simpson_ 250]

That's fine, but it does sound a lot like what you did to the imam...

Imam brought some of it on himself by his 9/11 comments and refusing to call Hamas a terrorist organization.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

America is not to blame for 9/11 plain and simple. I will not excuse these terrorists misguided anger and actions in any way shape or form.

I'm sure I will regret replying to this, but from the one line quote that is often publicized from this imam regarding 9/11 he doesn't strike me as "extremist", or even particularly controversial.

As to your claim, saying that you can see how US foreign policy has created resentment that has manifested itself in the form terrorism (amongst other things) is not the same as saying that the US is to blame for 9/11. That's an interpretation that hacks in the news media like to push.

Being from the UK I am well aware of the UK government's culpability in the Northern Ireland troubles. That doesn't mean that I condone or support the actions of paramilitary terrorist groups.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

No extremest group should be funding this regardless to who else is doing the funding. Would you support this project if it was proved that Hamas provided some of the funds?

Is there any value to this hypthetical debate?

[_Simpson_ 250]

I'm sure I will regret replying to this, but from the one line quote that is often publicized from this imam regarding 9/11 he doesn't strike me as "extremist", or even particularly controversial.

Referring to 9/11 he said we are a accessory to the crime. Cleary wrong! Right?

As to your claim, saying that you can see how US foreign policy has created resentment that has manifested itself in the form terrorism (amongst other things) is not the same as saying that the US is to blame for 9/11. That's an interpretation that hacks in the news media like to push.

I was addressing Imam's comments when this was brought up by Hal. It was irrelevant because Imam was wrong.

Being from the UK I am well aware of the UK government's culpability in the Northern Ireland troubles. That doesn't mean that I condone or support the actions of paramilitary terrorist groups.

I never claimed that the US was perfect. What I did say was that in no way shape or form should we blame the US for 9/11.

Whats going on here is people saying that were not to blame but then the 'but game' gets played. In a round about way you are blaming the US. Just be honest. We know the wrongs of our history and many of them have been addressed. The need to bring them up shortly after was 9/11 was a cowards way of saying that the US is partly to blame.

Edited August 25, 2010 by _Simpson_

[_Simpson_ 250]

Is there any value to this hypthetical debate?

How typical.