divorcing after 6 mos,what to do?

[kennym 275]

Kenny and Knappy -

First of all, I'm not telling the OP whether to stay or go, that is his choice. How in the world would I be one to judge better than him?

Also, I already said 'I'm speaking generally and not this case specific' (did you both miss that???)...I see it here all the time 'put her on a plane, etc' IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE AND THAT DOESN'T WORK.

And Happy Knappy, you said 'almost positive something will happen'...at the end of the day, that's nothing but lip service, that ICE has heard a million times over....nothing's gonna happen with just anecdotal hearsay, which at this point, unfortunately, is what his allegations are. So your advice worked out to a hill of beans.

If the OP is going to leave his wife, and try to make a case for fraud, the best advice you can give is to get HARD EVIDENCE...you know, something tangible. I don't know what that actually can be, tbh. Perhaps an email, but even those can be altered, so I honestly have no idea what will serve as incontrovertible proof, but that's what the OP needs, not some wishful thinking 'oh something will happen most likely, i'm pretty sure'.

Whew Man, for minute there, I thought you comparing a lying, deceitful, calculating, scam artist to a puppy, I am happy that's not the case.. Puppies are cute and cudly and dont have a single dishonest bone in them.. Anyhow, don't know why we got that impression, It couldn't have been because you posted on this tread about a lying deceitful scammer... Sorry if we mis-understood you...

Kenny

Edited August 25, 2010 by kennym

[rlogan 2,036]

Speaking generally here and not this case specific: I wish people would stop thinking this way...she's not some merchandise you can just discard when you no longer want it.

With all due respect Happy Bunny you create a straw man to argue against, and he doesn't exist. Not one person in my experience here has ever stated they thought the immigrant was merchandise they could discard when they no longer wanted "it".

We can make all kinds of ridiculous distortions out of what people say, and I'm going to show you what you are doing to see how silly it is.

You quoted this post:

And try to fly her back home as quickly as possible.

Here are equally absurd examples of choosing to interpret that in ways the author did not mean:

I'm tired of people thinking immigrants are airplanes. You cannot fly an immigrant home. You have to buy a commercial airline ticket...

I'm tired of people thinking they can fly X-43A's. They're the quickest way possible at Mach 9.8 and can circle the planet in 3.5 hours, but they do not fly commercial passengers...

I'm tired of people thinking they should fly same-day for five thousand dollars a ticket when they can do a two-week advance notice for one thousand dollars...

See how silly what you are doing is? None of those things are what the author means. It's me choosing to impose an invalid interpretation on it so that I can criticize them.

Again, respectfully, it is utterly trivial that people are not merchandise. Choosing to interpret people's statements that way says more about you than it does about them: much too ready to go out of your way accusing people for something they didn't actually say.

So chill out on this please. Thanks.

[SuperDuper! 230]

With all due respect Happy Bunny you create a straw man to argue against, and he doesn't exist. Not one person in my experience here has ever stated they thought the immigrant was merchandise they could discard when they no longer wanted "it".

We can make all kinds of ridiculous distortions out of what people say, and I'm going to show you what you are doing to see how silly it is.

You quoted this post:

Here are equally absurd examples of choosing to interpret that in ways the author did not mean:

I'm tired of people thinking immigrants are airplanes. You cannot fly an immigrant home. You have to buy a commercial airline ticket...

I'm tired of people thinking they can fly X-43A's. They're the quickest way possible at Mach 9.8 and can circle the planet in 3.5 hours, but they do not fly commercial passengers...

I'm tired of people thinking they should fly same-day for five thousand dollars a ticket when they can do a two-week advance notice for one thousand dollars...

See how silly what you are doing is? None of those things are what the author means. It's me choosing to impose an invalid interpretation on it so that I can criticize them.

Again, respectfully, it is utterly trivial that people are not merchandise. Choosing to interpret people's statements that way says more about you than it does about them: much too ready to go out of your way accusing people for something they didn't actually say.

So chill out on this please. Thanks.

Thanks Logan for identifying the use of the "Straw Man" argument. Those who use such tactics appear just plain out of ideas. God Bless.

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.^[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position"

^[/url]

[kennym 275]

See how silly what you are doing is? None of those things are what the author means. It's me choosing to impose an invalid interpretation on it so that I can criticize them.

Hmmm... "the Strawman"... Very interesting.. You've taught me something.. I admit, once you shared that analogy, it's quiet valid and applies to many discussions not just VJ, but understand this is quiet common in many discussions...

Good post.. Seriously...

Thanks

[Fandango 1,440]

With all due respect Happy Bunny you create a straw man to argue against, and he doesn't exist. Not one person in my experience here has ever stated they thought the immigrant was merchandise they could discard when they no longer wanted "it".

We can make all kinds of ridiculous distortions out of what people say, and I'm going to show you what you are doing to see how silly it is.

You quoted this post:

Here are equally absurd examples of choosing to interpret that in ways the author did not mean:

I'm tired of people thinking immigrants are airplanes. You cannot fly an immigrant home. You have to buy a commercial airline ticket...

I'm tired of people thinking they can fly X-43A's. They're the quickest way possible at Mach 9.8 and can circle the planet in 3.5 hours, but they do not fly commercial passengers...

I'm tired of people thinking they should fly same-day for five thousand dollars a ticket when they can do a two-week advance notice for one thousand dollars...

See how silly what you are doing is? None of those things are what the author means. It's me choosing to impose an invalid interpretation on it so that I can criticize them.

Again, respectfully, it is utterly trivial that people are not merchandise. Choosing to interpret people's statements that way says more about you than it does about them: much too ready to go out of your way accusing people for something they didn't actually say.

So chill out on this please. Thanks.

Read this forum for years on end (even before it was created) to see posts which say 'put her/him on a plane' as if the person is chattel that can be returned. Of course no one has actually come out and literally said they are merchandise, but that's where reading comprehension comes into play. That's absolutely no straw man, and search for it yourself on here and see how many times it's offered up as a solution. It does not work that way.

Again, I said 'speaking generally' and pointed out the post 'send her home' or some such. Speaking specifically to this particular scenario, sending her home is not the answer 1- she already has a GC, and 2 - you can't force anyone onto a plane if (s)he doesn't want to. Especially the scammer, because (s)he usually knows his/her rights to get to a perm GC. OP asked what his req's were, btw...so mentioning the i 1864 is def relevant. You can't just 'take that back' because you felt you were scammed.

Why this should be debated is anyone's guess. *shrug*

Edited August 26, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[rlogan 2,036]

Thanks Hopp and Kennym. I can't take credit for it. I just don't like to see the forum junked up with logical fallacies.

Read this forum for years on end (even before it was created) to see posts which say 'put her/him on a plane' as if the person is chattel that can be returned. Of course no one has actually come out and literally said they are merchandise, but that's where reading comprehension comes into play. That's absolutely no straw man, and search for it yourself on here and see how many times it's offered up as a solution. It does not work that way.

Here we have the logical fallacy of the "appeal to authority": I have been here for years and therefore I am an expert and you must accept what I say without question. Secondarily, we have the person making the assertion shifting the burden of proof to others, also a logical fallacy. The burden of proof is on the person making the assertion.

All you have shown to me Happy Bunny is zero evidence and logical fallacies. You made the assertion again in this post with no evidence. Repeating your assertion does not make it true. Evidence talks, B.S. walks.

Again, I said 'speaking generally'

Then you have no reason to bring the subject up at all, let alone make assertions with no evidence. (I am tired of people constantly referring to Martians on this forum. I've studied posts here for years and you can search for it yourself and see how common it is. Boy are they stupid - there are no Martians.)

So that leads us to the question why you would bring up an irrelevant subject if you admit this poster said no such thing.

[kennym 275]

Happy Bunny,

You seem intent on making this "send-her-back-on-the-plane" thing into a big deal.. I think it's absolutely rediculous to take our comments and put that kind of spin on it, or any comments you've dreamed or imagined.. The kind of person you're describing, may exists, more than likely they're fictional characters.. I am extremely confident, if anyone ever gave that impression here on VJ, you wouldn't be the only one jumping down thier throat..

If you find someone on this forum that actually feels like they've purchased merchandise and simply wants to ship it back, I hope you'll let us know who it is.. I have enjoyed all the friends I've made here on VJ, and all the help I've recieved here, but I have yet to read a post that even remotely resembles that kind of thinking regardless of how developed your reading comprehension is..

I really believe you're thinking of some hollywood flick..

Anyhow, really looking foward to finding someone who feels that they're spouse or fiance(e) is merchandise, please point them out as soon as you see one...

Kenny

Edited August 26, 2010 by kennym

[Indian Friend 1]

OP, contact USCIS/ICE, divorce her, and FEDEX her home . Avoid VAWA of course.

USCIS should stop giving Conditional GC. They should instead offer temporary visa for 2 years, after which you can apply for greencard if your marriage is still intact at that point. Visa would be similar to H1B and would allow one to work and get SSN/Driver License.

Of course, VAWA needs to go and it definitely shouldn't be applicable in first 2 years. If you feel like you are abused in first 2 years, return to your home country.

[Fandango 1,440]

The only thing I admitted was that no one outright came out and said that his/her foreign spouse is merchandise. But hrmm...'put her on a plane home'...what does that mean to you? Come on now, you're being intentionally obtuse and argumentative for no reason. End of.

The only other thing I brought up was Happy Knappy's crappy advice....lip service isn't going to do a damn thing. This man needs PROOF of some sort if he's going to want to prove fraud.

So you can take your buzzwords like 'fallacy' and 'strawman' and your little fan club of misinformation givers and do what you will, because having a pizzing contest with you in someone's thread where his marriage is falling apart is wrong. You may not personally like me, or hell, you may just have a problem with women, who knows. So let's boil it down to the facts, and by all means...correct any misinformation I have given:

I said he needs proof of fraud instead of just allegations - TRUE AND RELEVANT

I said it's not as simple as 'putting her on a plane' - TRUE AND RELEVANT

I said that the i-1864 is not that easy to just 'take back' - TRUE AND RELEVANT.

Have a little more respect for the OP by not having a pizzing contest in his thread where he's tackling some REAL problems, yeah?

VJ sheesh.

[kennym 275]

Happy Bunny

You're funny...

I will just say this, your comment about "merchandise" derailed this forum, all the other posts were relevant to the OP.. Your "puppy" analogy, well that was just wrong... and it brought a tear to my eye, since I love puppies... Now when they get big and mean, it's time to ship em back... He hehe.. You gotta admit that was funny...

Anyhow, I can see you are in a mood for a fight tonight.. so I'm just gonna let think whatever you want to think.. and btw, it's not a women thing, either, you just love the drama and trying to demonize everyone that argues against you... Nice tactic tacktic, but simply childish..

and nobody feels the partner in the relationship is merchandise, that is a figment of your imagination...

I feel bad for you.. You seem intent on making everyone here seem like terrible people.. I know for sure I dont fit in that category, I have a wonderful relationship with a woman who I have nothing but love and respect for.. I just called my "merchandise" and told her good night..

SO, Happy bunny, you too have a good night, and remember, we still love you..

Edited August 26, 2010 by kennym

[Fandango 1,440]

Happy Bunny

You're funny...

I will just say this, your comment about "merchandise" derailed this forum, all the other posts were relevant to the OP.. Your "puppy" analogy, well that was just wrong... and it brought a tear to my eye, since I love puppies... Now when they get big and mean, it's time to ship em back... He hehe.. You gotta admit that was funny...

Anyhow, I can see you are in a mood for a fight tonight.. so I'm just gonna let think whatever you want to think.. and btw, it's not a women thing, either, you just love the drama and trying to demonize everyone that argues against you... Nice tactic tacktic, but simply childish..

and nobody feels the partner in the relationship is merchandise, that is a figment of your imagination...

I feel bad for you.. You seem intent on making everyone here seem like terrible people.. I know for sure I dont fit in that category, I have a wonderful relationship with a woman who I have nothing but love and respect for.. I just called my "merchandise" and told her good night..

SO, Happy bunny, you too have a good night, and remember, we still love you..

If you want to bicker with me, make another thread and I will HAPPILY comply. My comments in here stand. But I'm responding for one reason, and that's to clarify something: No where did I say everyone treats their foreign so like merchandise...but for you to assume that when things go bad, people don't scurry around figuring out how to 'send him/her back', then you're crazy. Or you haven't read anything in the whole 6 months you've been a member. You're happily married? GREAT more power to you and I hope things work out forever. Why you took my comment personally, I'll never know.

[SuperDuper! 230]

If you want to bicker with me, make another thread and I will HAPPILY comply. My comments in here stand. But I'm responding for one reason, and that's to clarify something: No where did I say everyone treats their foreign so like merchandise...but for you to assume that when things go bad, people don't scurry around figuring out how to 'send him/her back', then you're crazy. Or you haven't read anything in the whole 6 months you've been a member. You're happily married? GREAT more power to you and I hope things work out forever. Why you took my comment personally, I'll never know.

[kennym 275]

No where did I say everyone treats their foreign so like merchandise... but for you to assume that when things go bad, people don't scurry around figuring out how to 'send him/her back', then you're crazy. Or you haven't read anything in the whole 6 months you've been a member. You're happily married? GREAT more power to you and I hope things work out forever. Why you took my comment personally, I'll never know.

Hello again Happy Bunny

By the way, I'm not married, I'm engaged, just in case the embassy is monitoring,,, lol

Also, I thought you were really good at reading comprehension.. Did you read your own post? It's pretty clear... I hate to point out the obvious, but... You did make that comment.. just saying..

as far as "when things go bad", it's not just "gone bad", she's a scam artist with a very specific target... you can't downplay that, it's not simply "when things go bad"... Heck yea, ship them back, as quick and as far as possible, we all know it isn't that easy.. you can't stick them in the box and put a label on it, but you're probably the only one smart enough to realize that.. none of the rest of us VJ'rs are as smart as you...

I took the liberty of underlining your comments that set this whole thread into warp factor 90.. Maybe you should've started another thread and called it "when dirtbags send their merchandise back"..

Hopefully your reading comprehension will be good enough to see that you did in fact say: "she's not some merchandise" (actual quote, no, really it is)...

Speaking generally here and not this case specific: I wish people would stop thinking this way...she's not some merchandise you can just discard when you no longer want it. I'm not taking sides in this fight between husband and wife, it's the concept of 'put her on a plane' that I have serious issues with. Petitioners need to know that it is NOT THAT SIMPLE. You brought this person here, whether it was being duped on your part or not. As far as the I-1864, you are ON THE HOOK for 40 quarters of work (which IS NOT ALWAYS 10 years from the start), until you die, the bene dies, or bene gets citizenship. People need to seriously remember what they sign.

Off on a tangent for another sec: it's funny how I see people complaining bout the processing times ('the gov't is standing in the way of my rights to happiness!) and then when it goes pear shaped, it's 'oooh, let's call ICE to so they can help me get out of this mess by deporting her'

I look at it this way: you asked Mommy and Daddy (the govt) for a puppy. You made all sorts of promises how you were gonna walk the puppy daily, feed it, play with it, etc. You got the puppy! Now, for one reason or another, you and the puppy are not gelling. It's not a case of throwing the puppy in the street....you made the case to get the puppy here, now you need to deal with it.

Oh, and Hopp? In this particular case, she has her GC, so 'flying her home asap' would do nothing more than give her a holiday with her family.

Keep in mind, we really do still love you..

Sweet dreams...

Edited August 26, 2010 by kennym

[Darnell 8,479]

She has her green card now. I guess that she thought that was all that she needede but then found out that she had to stay married for 2 years so now she is trying to do what she can to stay.

I expect that the next thing is ask if we can work things out. I think that now that I know what is goinjg on there is no hope for that.

What is VAWA? Who do I call? I tried the # that I had but can't talk to anyone. Do you have a # that I can call?

Thanks, I am going crasy!!

As I understand these things -

you've got 2 major 'areas' to swim in -

-divorce - look up yer county courthouse website - all info you need for filing a divorce is there. If you need templates for filing the divorce paperwork, go visit the law librarian working in the law library attached to the county courthouse - he/she can point you in the right direction.

--immigration. This is either easy or difficult, depending on what you really hope to accomplish. If you FEEL there was immigration fraud, and if you have documentation that she's only married you for immigration benefits, then by all means, submit a case to the Fraud Prevention Unit with USCIS and (emphasis on AND) ICE. What happens then is anyone's guess, really - it could be -

--ICE declares it a fraud case, after serious investigation, she's picked up and deported - or

--ICE does nothing, but keeps your case information, then later, if she she tries to file a removal of conditions case - USCIS will review the case that YOU filed with USCIS/FPU and ICE, determine if she is eligible to proceed with a 'removal of conditions' case or not.

Short term, IMO (and others) - you should remove yourself from the shared residence, as she could try to generate false evidence on you for a future VAWA case for the removal of conditions. If leasing (as was said), be sure the landlord knows whats going on (yer leaving, yer divorcing her) and if the landlord allows you to remove yer name from the lease (even for extra fee) then do so. If you have any utilities in both of yer names, call the utility companies, have yer name taken off them, as any future 'non-payment' situation on that residence can affect yer credit history.

I would not focus on any 'put her on the plane' scenario, for now..

Good Luck, let us know whats going on, if/when you have time...

[Fandango 1,440]

Hello again Happy Bunny

By the way, I'm not married, I'm engaged, just in case the embassy is monitoring,,, lol

Also, I thought you were really good at reading comprehension.. Did you read your own post? It's pretty clear... I hate to point out the obvious, but... You did make that comment.. just saying..

as far as "when things go bad", it's not just "gone bad", she's a scam artist with a very specific target... you can't downplay that, it's not simply "when things go bad"... Heck yea, ship them back, as quick and as far as possible, we all know it isn't that easy.. you can't stick them in the box and put a label on it, but you're probably the only one smart enough to realize that.. none of the rest of us VJ'rs are as smart as you...

I took the liberty of underlining your comments that set this whole thread into warp factor 90.. Maybe you should've started another thread and called it "when dirtbags send their merchandise back"..

Hopefully your reading comprehension will be good enough to see that you did in fact say: "she's not some merchandise" (actual quote, no, really it is)...

Keep in mind, we really do still love you..

Sweet dreams...

*sigh*

Yes, what I said was in response to a 'send her back/put her on a plane' comment, sadly I thought that people would be able to discern the context of what I said. Did I really have to be more specific that I didn't mean every single VJer in every scenario? Really? You can't tell the context?????

Again, I'm only responding to this and refraining from commenting on the rest in this man's thread. Start a separate one to have a back n forth with me, should you so choose.